Riaz Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Really? In the same timescale you’ve quoted ... Brentford FC - transfers out: Jake Bidwell Jack O’Connell David Button Scott Hogan Harlee Dean Jota Maxime Colin John Egan Ryan Woods Chris Mepham Florian Jozefzoon Yoann Barbet Dan Bentley Josh McEachran Romaine Sawyers Neal Maupay .... these weren’t just ‘bit part’ players for The Bees - they’ve coped ok without them .... so many sweeping statements on here... Brentford. The exception... and having a similar season to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Riaz said: Brentford. The exception... and having a similar season to us. So ‘no teams have lost as many players as us to transfers’ - except Brentford?! - and there may be more ...people just lazily post stuff on here without checking whether it’s accurate or not - and then just claim there are ‘exceptions’ to their otherwise flawless arguments .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poland_exile Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 23:09, Andy082005 said: It’s not really just one game though is it. It’s the whole mentality when we go into a game where there is some real expectation, some real pressure gutless the gutless six points off top in feb. I swear to god, some of our fans make us a laughing stock. Everything wrong about modern football fans summed up in a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, poland_exile said: the gutless six points off top in feb. I swear to god, some of our fans make us a laughing stock. Everything wrong about modern football fans summed up in a post. I do wonder what position we would need to be in right now for EVERYONE to be happy? There are only 6 places better than where we are, so it won’t be too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 hours ago, poland_exile said: the gutless six points off top in feb. I swear to god, some of our fans make us a laughing stock. Everything wrong about modern football fans summed up in a post. “Modern football fan”....who has had a season ticket for 25 years I’m just fed up of the absolute shite football dished up week in week out. Not a remotely enjoyable experience any more sadly Find me a person who is enjoying the football these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, RedLionLad said: I do wonder what position we would need to be in right now for EVERYONE to be happy? There are only 6 places better than where we are, so it won’t be too far off. For me it’s about where we end up after 46 games. This squad doesn’t have the mental strength to get top 6. That’s down to the coaches not being able to prepare them properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: For me it’s about where we end up after 46 games. This thread is 3 months premature then. We’re not Swindon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: This thread is 3 months premature then. We’re not Swindon.... I'm willing to bet £50 with anyone (we could do money to a charity of the winners choice)...that we won't make top 6? We have a coach who does not have the ability to mentally prepare players for these type of situations . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 11 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said: A very inconvenient fact for many. You wanted LJ replaced a month ago , and weren’t flagging this up then .... Very confusing ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityCiderEd Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Whilst year on year progression (league position) cannot be argued with do people think our performances have progressed? We have definitely improved our away form in LJ''s tenure to become a side with a very good ppg ratio. The problem is our home form has remained below average in the same period. In his 3 full seasons and this season so far he has failed to win 50% of home games and this is why the majority of fans become frustrated. Many fans cannot go to away games and only see the games at AG which have not been good to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Andy082005 said: I'm willing to bet £50 with anyone (we could do money to a charity of the winners choice)...that we won't make top 6? We have a coach who does not have the ability to mentally prepare players for these type of situations . Personally I think we’ll fall short so I’d be silly to take your bet. But it’s equally silly to think anything is decided in February when we’re five points from top two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: You wanted LJ replaced a month ago , and weren’t flagging this up then .... Very confusing ....... Big difference between thinking we need a change in direction for the new season and the sort of hyperbole that appears on here after our first defeat following 4 straight wins and 4 clean sheets. I can’t see how even the most fevered ‘LJ-outer’ can look at the table and make a justified case for his dismissal now. With a third of the season to play and 5 points from 2nd, I suspect we are surpassing even Sir Steve’s expectations at this point. Personally I don’t give a toss about the style of football or what the composition of our points tally is between home and away games (probably the two most frequent criticisms of the current regime). Only thing that matters to me is results and points on the board. And on the season so far our results and points will have him in credit upstairs whether people agree with it or not. 5 teams in the league have done better than us in terms of points, two-thirds of the way through the season. Anyone trying to portray that as failure is kidding themselves to suit their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Big difference between thinking we need a change in direction for the new season and the sort of hyperbole that appears on here after our first defeat following 4 straight wins and 4 clean sheets. I can’t see how even the most fevered ‘LJ-outer’ can look at the table and make a justified case for his dismissal now. With a third of the season to play and 5 points from 2nd, I suspect we are surpassing even Sir Steve’s expectations at this point. Personally I don’t give a toss about the style of football or what the composition of our points tally is between home and away games (probably the two most frequent criticisms of the current regime). Only thing that matters to me is results and points on the board. And on the season so far our results and points will have him in credit upstairs whether people agree with it or not. 5 teams in the league have done better than us in terms of points, two-thirds of the way through the season. Anyone trying to portray that as failure is kidding themselves to suit their argument. Bristol 86. Did you watch the performance friday night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, City oz said: Bristol 86. Did you watch the performance friday night? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Were you around when we were in the 1st division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, City oz said: Were you around when we were in the 1st division No. The two best league positions that my generation have seen were Gary Johnson in 07/08 and Lee Johnson in 18/19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 21 hours ago, Riaz said: Other teams may have lost the odd player. Nowhere near as many as we have. Kodjia 11m Bobby Reid 10m Joe Bryan 6m Aden Flint 7m Webster 20m Brownhill 9m Thats 63m worth of talent he’s lost! Most city managers of the past have struggled when they lost their best player! None have lost nowhere near this amount and still improved our league position year on year In LJ's defence ( and I am not an LJ fan, never have been) I think he is fighting the rapids when it comes to getting a settled team and it is down to the owner to decide if he is going to really 'go for it' to get us to the Premiership, which will mean a slight alteration to his buy/sell policy and let value stay at AG and get a settled promotion side or continue with his cautious accountancy based upbringing and do it by selling your better assets but spending season on season nearly getting there. One thing is for sure, if LJ went, he would only be replaced by a similar model to do the owners bidding. Personally, I have seen many managers come and go over 60 years of going down the Gate and where we sit now is comfortable for me, spent too many years watching them in the doldrums. All fans want the top flight and LJ certainly does but I think he has one hand tied behind his back through something he cannot control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 I respect your comment. You want I want everyone on OTIB wants PREM football at the Gate. We do need a change of direction as LJ has every available options in front of him but he is not capable of implementing the task to get us promotion let alone a top six spot. Once you get the top flight experience in watching City play in the highest league then you will realise inconsistent performances especially at home so far this season should not be compared to other cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: No. The two best league positions that my generation have seen were Gary Johnson in 07/08 and Lee Johnson in 18/19. Interesting points in this thread. I wonder then whether a split between those satisfied with 'year on year progression' and those frustrated - as I am - at what we see as a failure to push on and really go for promotion is a generational one? I can see that from your experience of watching City this is a bit of a golden age. When I watched City walk off the pitch having been relegated in 1980 I expected a club that had finished comfortably mid-table the previous year to be back fairly soon...I was still at school...I'm now approaching a free bus pass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redspark Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 12 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I think the issue that divides many fans relates to the definition of ‘progress’ - the “we’ve made progress every year under LJ” brigade just look at the championship table at 5pm on the last day of each season and their eyes light up with sheer joy as we have finished a place or two above the season before (eg 18th then 17th) - the “How can this be called progress?” brigade watch the games and see consistently dire home performances every season with very few shots at the ‘goal’ thing and a confused bunch of players who bumble through games not looking as though they really know what the game plan is, but they pick up the odd good away victory (not always deserved) to placate us, many don’t see that as ‘progress’ ... just my opinion Absolutely spot on reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Big difference between thinking we need a change in direction for the new season and the sort of hyperbole that appears on here after our first defeat following 4 straight wins and 4 clean sheets. I can’t see how even the most fevered ‘LJ-outer’ can look at the table and make a justified case for his dismissal now. With a third of the season to play and 5 points from 2nd, I suspect we are surpassing even Sir Steve’s expectations at this point. Personally I don’t give a toss about the style of football or what the composition of our points tally is between home and away games (probably the two most frequent criticisms of the current regime). Only thing that matters to me is results and points on the board. And on the season so far our results and points will have him in credit upstairs whether people agree with it or not. 5 teams in the league have done better than us in terms of points, two-thirds of the way through the season. Anyone trying to portray that as failure is kidding themselves to suit their argument. So , if I’ve got you right ...... You Judge him solely on league position (And points tally) at any given point with at any point a defined cut off ? Is that right (I’m trying to understand why he wasn’t the right man for you a month ago but is now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Interesting points in this thread. I wonder then whether a split between those satisfied with 'year on year progression' and those frustrated - as I am - at what we see as a failure to push on and really go for promotion is a generational one? I can see that from your experience of watching City this is a bit of a golden age. When I watched City walk off the pitch having been relegated in 1980 I expected a club that had finished comfortably mid-table the previous year to be back fairly soon...I was still at school...I'm now approaching a free bus pass! We need to get the golden age back and we can all go to the gate on our free buss pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Interesting points in this thread. I wonder then whether a split between those satisfied with 'year on year progression' and those frustrated - as I am - at what we see as a failure to push on and really go for promotion is a generational one? I can see that from your experience of watching City this is a bit of a golden age. When I watched City walk off the pitch having been relegated in 1980 I expected a club that had finished comfortably mid-table the previous year to be back fairly soon...I was still at school...I'm now approaching a free bus pass! I just don’t think you can compare football 30 years ago with football now. I think fans just don’t appreciate the fact that there’s about 15-18 very similar teams in this league and that into 6 just doesn’t go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: So , if I’ve got you right ...... You Judge him solely on league position (And points tally) at any given point with at any point a defined cut off ? Is that right (I’m trying to understand why he wasn’t the right man for you a month ago but is now) No that’s not right. I judge the outcome of each season when that season is over. Pretty simple concept. Success or otherwise this season can not be measured until the season is over. SL wanted a playoff finish this season and it’s yet to be seen whether or not that will be achieved. It’ll be interesting to see whether or not SL will be ruthless if we fail to finish in the top six. Do I think he’s the man to get us promoted? Probably not, but having said that, back him long enough and eventually it’ll happen, which I suspect is SL’s plan - stick with it long enough and eventually we’ll have a good enough season for it to click. I’m not against that per se provided we’re not going backwards which we’re clearly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: No that’s not right. I judge the outcome of each season when that season is over. Pretty simple concept. Success or otherwise this season can not be measured until the season is over. SL wanted a playoff finish this season and it’s yet to be seen whether or not that will be achieved. It’ll be interesting to see whether or not SL will be ruthless if we fail to finish in the top six. Do I think he’s the man to get us promoted? Probably not, but having said that, back him long enough and eventually it’ll happen, which I suspect is SL’s plan - stick with it long enough and eventually we’ll have a good enough season for it to click. I’m not against that per se provided we’re not going backwards which we’re clearly not. Ta for the response / explanation - it was a genuine question A majority of Fans will change their opinions on players and managers , naturally , for a variety of reasons It is or should should be interesting hearing why FWIW I can understand your logic / explanation in your case Out of interest and another genuine question for you ......or anyone else If we ground out enough points and finished in sixth place (And Dont get promoted) but had continued in our current style without an obvious plan Would you keep him or look to replace him ? If we finished 7th , 9th ......but Say had begun to develop a cohesive , and mildly entertaining at least playing plan , with the resources we have , and looking forward Would you keep him or Look to replace him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Out of interest and another genuine question for you ......or anyone else If we ground out ebpnough points and finished in sixth place (And Dont get promoted) but had continued in our current style without an obvious plan Would you keep him or look to replace him ? If we finished 7th , 9th ......but Say had begun to develop a cohesive , and mildly entertaining at least playing plan , with the resources we have , and looking forward Would you keep him or Look to replace him ? I would keep him in that instance personally, very hard to justify getting rid of him if we make the playoffs. Results on the pitch will always take priority over how entertaining the football is. I do feel entertainment value is a problem though and something he needs to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I would keep him in that instance personally, very hard to justify getting rid of him if we make the playoffs. Results on the pitch will always take priority over how entertaining the football is. I do feel entertainment value is a problem though and something he needs to address. How about the second scenario , 8th/9th but with signs and green shoots of a plan moving forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: How about the second scenario , 8th/9th but with signs and green shoots of a plan moving forward ? I genuinely don't know how I'd feel about that at the moment - my marker for success is continuing the year on year progression, and I feel he's been backed in January so that's no excuse. If that ends up being our fate this season, i'll get back to you on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: I just don’t think you can compare football 30 years ago with football now. I think fans just don’t appreciate the fact that there’s about 15-18 very similar teams in this league and that into 6 just doesn’t go. I'm not sure that I understand your point. In what way were there not lots of similar sized clubs 30 or 40 years ago? There really were, in fact you could argue that such was the level nature of the playing field back then that a bit of investment and decent management 40 years ago made a massive difference, hence the success of clubs like Ipswich, Coventry, Southampton... ...as for 'fans' not appreciating...who are these deluded fans? I don't think many of the regular posters on here are daft. The scenario you describe implies to me that an experienced manager allied to the resources SL has at his disposal will get us over the line...all we lack is the experienced manager. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: How about the second scenario , 8th/9th but with signs and green shoots of a plan moving forward ? Giving it a bit more thought, if we ended up 8th/9th but were a bit unlucky to end up there - found a way to make the football more exciting with the likes of Palmer/Paterson/Eliasson in the side, Wells scoring regularly and Afobe looking good coming back to fitness - I'd probably think keep. If we ended up 8th/9th through a poor run of form again, bad performances and a general lackluster end to the season - I'd probably want a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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