150/1 for the title....

[Red Exile]

27 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If we ground out enough points and finished in sixth place (And Dont get promoted) but had continued in our current style without an obvious plan

Would you keep him or look to replace him ?

 

If we finished 7th , 9th ......but Say had begun to develop a cohesive , and mildly entertaining at least playing plan , with the resources we have , and looking forward 

Would you keep him or Look to replace him ?

I think he gets another shot if we finish 6th and up a decent show in the play-offs, even if we go out in the semis. And another shot if we miss out on 6th but folk see that entertaining plan. I'm not a fan but I'd accept that he was learning. 

On the other hand if it's possible to characterise the remainder of the season as a shapeless mess - with clubs spilling out of the bag and left all over the course - his time should be up. 

[italian dave]

13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

I think the issue that divides many fans relates to the definition of ‘progress’ - the “we’ve made progress every year under LJ” brigade just look at the championship table at 5pm on the last day of each season and their eyes light up with sheer joy as we have finished a place or two above the season before (eg 18th then 17th) - the “How can this be called progress?” brigade watch the games and see consistently dire home performances every season with very few shots at the ‘goal’ thing and a confused bunch of players who bumble through games not looking as though they really know what the game plan is, but they pick up the odd good away victory (not always deserved) to placate us, many don’t see that as ‘progress’ ... just my opinion

It's a reasonable point, BS4, but I'm not sure anyone would feel we were making "progress" any more if we were playing the most entertaining football we could all remember but sitting in the bottom 3. Remember the days of Andy Cole and Jacki when we played some fabulous football, but lost 3-4! 

Yes, it would be fantastic to 'progress' in terms of standard of football and also league position every year: it's what 92 sets of fans want every year and 91 are disappointed! 

I don't actually think the football is as bad as sometimes portrayed: I've enjoyed the football more at times in the past, but there's have also been seasons when I've enjoyed it a lot less. Maybe because I go away as well, and for all those years of 'fortress Ashton', they've usually been accompanied by a season of endless away defeats! I think you're being very unfair dismissing our away record; the odd away victory? Come on, no team in the league has won more away than us.

I have more sympathy with your view that the players something's don't look like they know the game plan, and don't think that's entirely surprising given the number of changes we make every season as a consequence of our transfer policy, exacerbated this year by injuries. I really think that if we'd kept Webster and Kalas fit we would have had an even better season. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I think he gets another shot if we finish 6th and up a decent show in the play-offs, even if we go out in the semis. And another shot if we miss out on 6th but folk see that entertaining plan. I'm not a fan but I'd accept that he was learning. 

On the other hand if it's possible to characterise the remainder of the season as a shapeless mess - with clubs spilling out of the bag and left all over the course - his time should be up. 

Again ,

what if he finishes 8th/9th but there is a clear plan forming

[Red Exile]

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Again ,

what if he finishes 8th/9th but there is a clear plan forming

well...there's then a decision to be made. I obviously won't be making it (!) and it might be hard to see from the stands what any such plan would look like. Time is running out. 

In truth my strong suspicion is that Lansdown will stick with Lee Johnson as long as he possibly can, so as not to be proved wrong in backing him in the past, and that he'll forget ever having said anything about finishing positions in order to justify that. SL appears to have a high degree of personal investment in the LJ project. Perhaps as much as any Bristol City project. He'll want to be proved right.

[BRISTOL86]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If we ground out enough points and finished in sixth place (And Dont get promoted) but had continued in our current style without an obvious plan

Would you keep him or look to replace him ?

 

If we finished 7th , 9th ......but Say had begun to develop a cohesive , and mildly entertaining at least playing plan , with the resources we have , and looking forward 

Would you keep him or Look to replace him ?

I think if we finish in the playoffs then he certainly deserves to be in charge at the start of the next season, whatever the outcome of the playoffs. I think it's generally accepted that this is what Lansdown is looking for, so I'd be gobsmacked if we made the playoffs and he then found himself out of a job. I can't see any logical grounds at all for replacing the manager if you make the playoffs in a league as competitive as this. 

Second question, hard one. Mildly entertaining and missing out, IMO, is worse than dire football and finishing 6th. I think in reality if we stay within touching distance and narrowly avoid the playoffs then he will certainly be in charge come August, and again I think it's probably hard to find a logical argument that supports changing it. 

Hard to answer as there's too many unknowns in these situations. What did Lansdown really set him as a target? How much does he want it? Who would be available if he were to be sacked, etc etc.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think if we finish in the playoffs then he certainly deserves to be in charge at the start of the next season, whatever the outcome of the playoffs. I think it's generally accepted that this is what Lansdown is looking for, so I'd be gobsmacked if we made the playoffs and he then found himself out of a job. I can't see any logical grounds at all for replacing the manager if you make the playoffs in a league as competitive as this. 

Second question, hard one. Mildly entertaining and missing out, IMO, is worse than dire football and finishing 6th. I think in reality if we stay within touching distance and narrowly avoid the playoffs then he will certainly be in charge come August, and again I think it's probably hard to find a logical argument that supports changing it. 

Hard to answer as there's too many unknowns in these situations. What did Lansdown really set him as a target? How much does he want it? Who would be available if he were to be sacked, etc etc.

Again , ta for the thoughts

Im more interested in posters views rather than what SL may or will do

FWIW I may be in a minority Id be more inclined to forge on with him if we finished outside the play offs but showing the green shoots of a real plan (Albeit about two years later than it should IMHO) for next season than if we scraped into the play offs by heroic defending and grinding out results (Accepting of course that if he somehow negotiated the Play Offs there would be no debate)

[BRISTOL86]

2 hours ago, Red Exile said:

I'm not sure that I understand your point. In what way were there not lots of similar sized clubs 30 or 40 years ago? There really were, in fact you could argue that such was the level nature of the playing field back then that a bit of investment and decent management 40 years ago made a massive difference, hence the success of clubs like Ipswich, Coventry, Southampton...

...as for 'fans' not appreciating...who are these deluded fans? I don't think many of the regular posters on here are daft. The scenario you describe implies to me that an experienced manager allied to the resources SL has at his disposal will get us over the line...all we lack is the experienced manager. In my opinion.

 

 

Sorry didn't make myself very clear there. Obviously I didn't watch football 40 years ago as I wasn't born, but with the money in the game these days which has filtered down to this level, there is so little between so many clubs with such similar resources. Fair enough, that may have also been the case back then, but it does seem to me that the Championship is tighter than ever as clubs go up, come down loaded, and the cycle rinses and repeats. It's now almost a second Premier League. 

Re the second paragraph, it seems to me that there's a feeling that we should/must be in the top six at all times to be doing OK. When the reality is that there are 2 or 3 times the amount of teams with the squads and resources capable of achieving that as there are spaces to be filled. Ergo, probably 2/3rds of teams with the squads capable of finishing top six, won't.

People do seem to have a bit of a mentality of almost expecting us to win every game, whereas in most fixtures, you have two very evenly matched squads who both want it just as much. We're going to win games and we're going to lose games. 

5 teams have won more games than us and 6 have lost fewer. In a league of 24 I'd say that's doing well. 

A third of the season remains and we're level on points with 6th, and 5 points off of a team in 2nd with a 'world class' manager. I think we're doing OK and people are massively overreacting to our first bad league result since the turn of the new year.

[BobBobSuperBob]

30 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry didn't make myself very clear there. Obviously I didn't watch football 40 years ago as I wasn't born, but with the money in the game these days which has filtered down to this level, there is so little between so many clubs with such similar resources. Fair enough, that may have also been the case back then, but it does seem to me that the Championship is tighter than ever as clubs go up, come down loaded, and the cycle rinses and repeats. It's now almost a second Premier League. 

Re the second paragraph, it seems to me that there's a feeling that we should/must be in the top six at all times to be doing OK. When the reality is that there are 2 or 3 times the amount of teams with the squads and resources capable of achieving that as there are spaces to be filled. Ergo, probably 2/3rds of teams with the squads capable of finishing top six, won't.

People do seem to have a bit of a mentality of almost expecting us to win every game, whereas in most fixtures, you have two very evenly matched squads who both want it just as much. We're going to win games and we're going to lose games. 

5 teams have won more games than us and 6 have lost fewer. In a league of 24 I'd say that's doing well. 

A third of the season remains and we're level on points with 6th, and 5 points off of a team in 2nd with a 'world class' manager. I think we're doing OK and people are massively overreacting to our first bad league result since the turn of the new year.

Don’t agree with this

This season , as in any season there are nothing like that many Clubs with squads , resources, circumstances

We could start going through Clubs at the start of this season Luton , Barnsley - hoping only to avoid the drop

Clubs like Stoke , Hullin a complete mess of the pitch and desperately trying to balance the books 

Clubs like QPR , Millwall, Preston who can’t compete with us financially or in squad resources 

Always Clubs , for a variety of reasons in a mess and or transition

There is a reason/ theory we have stuck with a head coach , and continuity for four years , and given LJ the lo gets tenure in this division , it’s time to be reaping the benefits

My biggets concern is looking at our Current apparent completely lack of playing plan suggests we are anything but

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, oldstandrobin said:

In LJ's defence ( and I am not an LJ fan, never have been) I think he is fighting the rapids when it comes to getting a settled team and it is down to the owner to decide if he is going to really 'go for it' to get us to the Premiership, which will mean a slight alteration to his buy/sell policy and let value stay at AG and get a settled promotion side or continue with his cautious accountancy based upbringing and do it by selling your better assets but spending season on season nearly getting there. One thing is for sure, if LJ went, he would only be replaced by a similar model to do the owners bidding. Personally, I have seen many managers come and go over 60 years of going down the Gate and where we sit now is comfortable for me, spent too many years watching them in the doldrums. All fans want the top flight  and LJ certainly does but I think he has one hand tied behind his back through something he cannot control.

I think we are “going for it”, just like we did in 17/18, perhaps just not in the way you expect.

Lee has to trade because he has built a gurt big squad spending most of the money raised on pure transfer fees and then increased the wage budget and annual amortisation costs significantly.

If he could rein that in, he could retain. So a bit self inflicted might be the harsh view. 

[oldstandrobin]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are “going for it”, just like we did in 17/18, perhaps just not in the way you expect.

Lee has to trade because he has built a gurt big squad spending most of the money raised on pure transfer fees and then increased the wage budget and annual amortisation costs significantly.

If he could rein that in, he could retain. So a bit self inflicted might be the harsh view. 

Yes Dave, we've made a simple game more and more complicated but after watching Ire v Wales and Sco v Eng Rugby, boy, how can you ever understand those rules 

[BRISTOL86]

34 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don’t agree with this

This season , as in any season there are nothing like that many Clubs with squads , resources, circumstances

We could start going through Clubs at the start of this season Luton , Barnsley - hoping only to avoid the drop

Clubs like Stoke , Hullin a complete mess of the pitch and desperately trying to balance the books 

Clubs like QPR , Millwall, Preston who can’t compete with us financially or in squad resources 

Always Clubs , for a variety of reasons in a mess and or transition

There is a reason/ theory we have stuck with a head coach , and continuity for four years , and given LJ the lo gets tenure in this division , it’s time to be reaping the benefits

My biggets concern is looking at our Current apparent completely lack of playing plan suggests we are anything but

We're 7th Bob, with 5 teams that have taken more points than us. Those 5 are WBA, Leeds, Fulham, Forest and Brentford.

Genuine question - how much more do you genuinely think we 'should' be achieving than what we have done? IMO the only team ahead of us on points that you should argue we genuinely 'should' be ahead of is Brentford, and even that's very arguable (they're not the poor shoestring squad cobbled together that people like to pretend). 

Right now we've been better than 17/24 teams in a remarkably competitive league. We're not a WBA, or a Fulham, who attract the very best players, or who have the clout of Premier League money behind them.

If you'd have offered any City fan this position at the start of the season they'd have to be mad to turn it down, and now we're basically talking about whether we should sack the manager, it's madness.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

We're 7th Bob, with 5 teams that have taken more points than us. Those 5 are WBA, Leeds, Fulham, Forest and Brentford.

Genuine question - how much more do you genuinely think we 'should' be achieving than what we have done? IMO the only team ahead of us on points that you should argue we genuinely 'should' be ahead of is Brentford, and even that's very arguable (they're not the poor shoestring squad cobbled together that people like to pretend). 

Right now we've been better than 17/24 teams in a remarkably competitive league. We're not a WBA, or a Fulham, who attract the very best players, or who have the clout of Premier League money behind them. 

I don’t think we are far off in response to your q, and remembering we should be benefiting from the continuity of 4 years of head coach

I think we should be in a position to see off Brentford and Preston 

Forest ... difficult one .., splash some money around but have been a mess for a few years , a merry go round of managers, and the new manager only in post this season 

WBA and Fulham a struggle to better 

Leeds , (ignore the ‘name’ ) look at the squad in numbers depth , and quality......should we be outperforming , or them .....theres an argument 

 

My concern would be the ability to achieve more

 

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry didn't make myself very clear there. Obviously I didn't watch football 40 years ago as I wasn't born, but with the money in the game these days which has filtered down to this level, there is so little between so many clubs with such similar resources. Fair enough, that may have also been the case back then, but it does seem to me that the Championship is tighter than ever as clubs go up, come down loaded, and the cycle rinses and repeats. It's now almost a second Premier League. 

Re the second paragraph, it seems to me that there's a feeling that we should/must be in the top six at all times to be doing OK. When the reality is that there are 2 or 3 times the amount of teams with the squads and resources capable of achieving that as there are spaces to be filled. Ergo, probably 2/3rds of teams with the squads capable of finishing top six, won't.

People do seem to have a bit of a mentality of almost expecting us to win every game, whereas in most fixtures, you have two very evenly matched squads who both want it just as much. We're going to win games and we're going to lose games. 

5 teams have won more games than us and 6 have lost fewer. In a league of 24 I'd say that's doing well. 

A third of the season remains and we're level on points with 6th, and 5 points off of a team in 2nd with a 'world class' manager. I think we're doing OK and people are massively overreacting to our first bad league result since the turn of the new year.

All fair points. I can only speak for myself - it's HOPE not expectation!

COYR

[CityCiderEd]

I still feel a lot of the unrest is purely down to our home form and performances.A huge majority never go to away games where we have an amazing record compared to fairly dismal home performances .LJ has certainly improved our away form in 4 seasons from poor to very good but our home form has not improved nearly enough.To get play offs or top 6 the win rate needs to be above 50% at home but is below that since he's been here.

[RedLionLad]

On current form (last five games with 15 points available) we are doing extremely well when compared to teams around us.

Fulham 13
CITY 12
Preston 11
Birmingham 11
Forest 10
Brentford 10
Derby 10
Stoke 10
Cardiff 9
Blackburn 8
WBA 7

Leeds 3

The next few weeks will see plenty of twists and turns at the top of the Championship, that's for sure.