Clutton Caveman Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 After the Brum game I was so crazy I could not get the game and this season out of my mind. After a few days the points below seem really obvious a) As LJ has been at the club for 4 years you would have to say that this squad is his b) It is clear that he thinks that only by taking an extremely defensive and negative approach can this squad try to win a play off place c) It is clear that the players feel the need to entertain at home but are hamstrung by the central negative approach d) The clearest point is that our movement off the ball is non existent. We constantly create time for of centre backs or even Corrie to have to to look up and find a good forward pass. The problem is the rest of the team are either standing still or hiding behind a defender. Our press has all but disappeared and when we do get the ball out wide as often as not our winge is isolated and so passes back. e) Set peices. When was the last time we saw our team try something different devised on the training ground. We are just so predictable and again lack any sort of invention. I can only come to the conclusion that our team is so concentrated by "our shape" and "not getting opened up" that they are reluctant to make a run or do something risky. I lost count of the times we made 6 or 8 sideways passes in our own half and then hoofed it long towards Fam. If we are going to hit it long, why dont we do it early and get somebody running beyond Fam for the flick on. This weekend on Quest, Kevin Philips said " when a coach is too long at one club, often things get stale. The training becomes repetitive and boring, the message become stale and players lose faith in the methods of the manager." He also said that often it helps to change the various coaches to bring in new ideas and freshen things up. I think he is spot on here. If we need to play dull football to keep clean sheets, then clearly our defensive coach and manager have some problems If players who arrive with real flare and enthusiasm soon become robots and join the keep it safe brigade, it shows that our habit of setting up to stop other teams (even teams far lower than us in the table) rather then concentrating on causing them problems destroys flare and confidence. The lack of flare and confidence at home has been evident for months. Finally LJ seems to have a mental block over signing physically strong players to match up with the monsters we play each week On Friday it was clear that the team was being out muscled in midfield and that they needed some inspiration. I accept that our bench, like our squad lacked a flare player to change things but to bring on a centre half and a tiny defensive midfielder just left everybody bewildered. Yes we brought on Wells but he cannot feed of zero service. I think our squad in terms of balance and quality ( with the exception of physical strength in midfield) is good enough to get us into the play offs. I think that players like DeSilva, Eliasson, Wells, Fam, Patto, Williams, O'Dowd, Palmer have enough flair to allow us to entertain and win at home if the team to correctly coached, set up and motivated. If LJ has to stay, we should at least change his coaches and appoint a forwards coach. This has gone on for longer than I planned but I feel that the points raised are factual and hard to dispute. Our owner much chose between ambition and blind loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 With the churn of players, we don't have the "stale" problem here mate. Move on the ones yawning at the back, keep the keeners all ears with their hands up at the front. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 It is well known in football circles that four years is the optimum time for most managers/head coaches. In our case, LJ has done an acceptable stint but, IMO, he has shown this season, that he has gone stale and devoid of ways to lift performance above average. We need a change to progress upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: It is well known in football circles that four years is the optimum time for most managers/head coaches. In our case, LJ has done an acceptable stint but, IMO, he has shown this season, that he has gone stale and devoid of ways to lift performance above average. We need a change to progress upwards. Whilst you may have a point cidered and I do think we may have a problem with staleness, managers like Sir Alex Ferguson and a few others and proved that theory to be incorrect. That said, we do need to become more attacking and less predictable at home at least. I guess our results away from home suggest that away tactics may be right though. Can we move forward with the present manager/coaching staff is a very good question, though we may find that we have an answer at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Agree with much of the original post. Our midfield at home seem to have instructions not to cross halfway or not to try anything different. Its always safety first which usually means lay it back or at best square usually ending with a punt forward in hope from the backline or Bentley. I know the play looks different from the stand but maybe LJ or one of the coaches should sit higher up to watch the match. One of my biggest gripes is throw ins. We never threaten from a throw in and usually just aim it towards Fam with a defender or two on his shoulder. On 2 occasions Friday I saw Weimman run towards a defender at our throw rather than into space. I don't think we necessarily need to change the manager but we do need to change our attitude at home or we shall fall away quickly. Sorry but I just feel so negative after Friday. Perhaps a win Wednesday will cheer me up but...………. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire Red Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 As someone who has gone to most home games and nearly all away games for several decades the answer to keeping it simple could be this :realism. That's it. This forum is very untypical of City fans. Most on here want instant success and are emotionally attached to venting their joys (for Lj after yet another winning streak) and their disappointment after 90mins of a home game. Keeping it real and keeping it simple may help those who are not able to really enjoy one of the best periods in the Club's history. If you were 100 years old, you would not have witnessed 10 years as good as this one nor the last one, nor the season before. Keep it real man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Can I not expect to be entertained? (Im closer to 100 than 1) Ive been watching for nearly 70 years but Ive seldom been this bored at home games. We have some of the best players we have ever had but its just boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, marmite said: We have some of the best players we have ever had but its just boring. This. I was so looking forward to Friday night all last week. Few pints, good crowd, live on Sky plus we all had a buzz after a decent January transfer window and we produced that crock of shite. Anyone wanting Johnson gone now is smoking something as we are of course still in the mix but the performances are dire. It needs addressing. If we miss out this year, and it’s more of the same at home next season with LJ still in charge it will get toxic. I reckon I spend 100 -150 quid a month on supporting city and I want to go home with a smile on my face not pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: This. I was so looking forward to Friday night all last week. Few pints, good crowd, live on Sky plus we all had a buzz after a decent January transfer window and we produced that crock of shite. Anyone wanting Johnson gone now is smoking something as we are of course still in the mix but the performances are dire. It needs addressing. If we miss out this year, and it’s more of the same at home next season with LJ still in charge it will get toxic. I reckon I spend 100 -150 quid a month on supporting city and I want to go home with a smile on my face not pissed off. Me too....seemed to take ages to come around. I left AG hugely frustrated. My only solace is that defeat gives LJ a clean slate to pick the team he wants to, no having to stick with a winning team (not that he had to on Friday either). Be brave, show courage in your convictions. Tell the players it’s up to them to keep the shirt, tells those without it to push those in possession, etc. I know it’s not as simple as that....but provide clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepywall Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: This. I was so looking forward to Friday night all last week. Few pints, good crowd, live on Sky plus we all had a buzz after a decent January transfer window and we produced that crock of shite. Anyone wanting Johnson gone now is smoking something as we are of course still in the mix but the performances are dire. It needs addressing. If we miss out this year, and it’s more of the same at home next season with LJ still in charge it will get toxic. I reckon I spend 100 -150 quid a month on supporting city and I want to go home with a smile on my face not pissed off. Good post, I was looking forward to the Brum game, went to QPR and we were lucky to get the win, ironically if Wells had been playing for QPR I think we would have lost but I felt the Brum game was a real chance to impose ourselves on the division, good atmosphere at the start, winning after 40 secs, had all the hallmarks of a good night and then after 40 secs it was back to normal, being taught a lesson by a fairly average team, things need to change quickly at home starting Wednesday if we are to have any chance of top 6, not confident they will change personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: BRMe too....seemed to take ages to come around. I left AG hugely frustrated. My only solace is that defeat gives LJ a clean slate to pick the team he wants to, no having to stick with a winning team (not that he had to on Friday either). Yep but the problem is .....we are playing at home. If it was Derby away id fancy our chances. Defensive, counter attacking smash and grab win. We are at home, decent crowd, on sky (I presume) - what will Johnson do different? Be brave Lee. Tell them to go out, express themselves and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, cidered abroad said: It is well known in football circles that four years is the optimum time for most managers/head coaches. In our case, LJ has done an acceptable stint but, IMO, he has shown this season, that he has gone stale and devoid of ways to lift performance above average. We need a change to progress upwards. I agree - LJ has steadied the ship and we are now a club that can compete in the championship - but with the backing he has received and the players at his disposal we should be so much more ... his stint at the helm has been positive but we need a guy now with a proven track record who can get the absolute best from this talented squad ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: but we need a guy now with a proven track record who can get the absolute best from this talented squad ... Who do you suggest? I connect with the get rid of LJ gang but that’s dependant on knowing who you replace him with is better. So who ? Are they available? Wages ? What guarantee of success P.S don’t say Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Who do you suggest? I connect with the get rid of LJ gang but that’s dependant on knowing who you replace him with is better. So who ? Are they available? Wages ? What guarantee of success P.S don’t say Colin Neil Warnock Chris Hughton Mick McCarthy ...also Nigel Pearson was out of work for a lengthy time up until recently .... etc, etc .... but it isn’t up to me to find a replacement - our club employs lots of people on the recruitment side of things - it bugs me when people on here immediately demand to know ‘who?’ whenever the requirement for new players or new managers is discussed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I agree - LJ has steadied the ship and we are now a club that can compete in the championship - but with the backing he has received and the players at his disposal we should be so much more ... his stint at the helm has been positive but we need a guy now with a proven track record who can get the absolute best from this talented squad ... I’m happy to give him the chance to achieve it himself this season. He put the pressure on MA to bring in the players. He’s got them. It’s in his court now, got to give him the chance imho. That might seem a bit contradictory with some of my other posts over the weekend, but it’s not really. We are 7th on GD. He deserves the chance to make the final push imho. I hope he does. Either way I think his performance becomes clearer. Play-offs - achieved what SL asked of him, carry on (promotion - he’ll deserve some eating of hats) Fall away - not the man to take us forward, time to give someone else a go Just miss out - serious questions, probably not enough to lose him his job, but may lose SL’s total backing. Could feel a bit Danny Wilson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 55 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Neil Warnock Chris Hughton Mick McCarthy ...also Nigel Pearson was out of work for a lengthy time up until recently .... etc, etc .... but it isn’t up to me to find a replacement - our club employs lots of people on the recruitment side of things - it bugs me when people on here immediately demand to know ‘who?’ whenever the requirement for new players or new managers is discussed... I assume that you are happy with the style of football we are playing at the moment then, if you want one of those four negative, defensive, hoofball managers in charge. May as well stick with LJ than pay mega bucks employing one of that lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: I assume that you are happy with the style of football we are playing at the moment then, if you want one of those four negative, defensive, hoofball managers in charge. May as well stick with LJ than pay mega bucks employing one of that lot. I’m not happy with how our club is playing at the moment - it’s boring. What on earth made you think I am happy with our ‘style’ (ironic word) of play at the moment?! And why aren’t I surprised at the lazy and ill-informed description of the four names I mentioned ?! Four proven, successful guys by the way ... but lots seem content with mediocrity on here ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Warnock - retired, in his 70's only looking to manage for a short spell to get to a certain number of games in management (1000 I think) Hughton - Did you not listen to Brighton fans last year who were glad to see the back of him due to his dull negative don't lose tactics. McCarthy - Ditto Ipswich fans. Hasn't had a promotion on his cv for 10 yrs or so. Pearson - a belligerent bully who will not save Watford from relegation. If you want a change of style then you need to be suggesting names like, Slavica Jankovich, Gareth Ainsworth, The Cowley brothers, Aitor Karanka not that LJ is going anywhere with his 4 yr contract tucked under his belt. My description of these 4 names you mention is anything but ill informed or lazy. In fact reeling those same old names off is the lazy option...why not add the usual Allardyce, Pulis, Curbishley (he once got promoted), Pardew names whilst you are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: .... but it isn’t up to me to find a replacement - our club employs lots of people on the recruitment side of things - it bugs me when people on here immediately demand to know ‘who?’ whenever the requirement for new players or new managers is discussed... In that's case, it isn't up to you to decide who went have as our current manager, how long we keep him, or when we decide to terminate that arrangement. Not intended to be directed at you personally, I know you're one of those who argues a case to support your view, But there's an awful lot of posts that are along the lines of 'get him out of our club' 'time to go' and so forth, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that simply shouting about the problem, being negative, without suggesting a solution isn't reasonable. Apart from being dead easy to do, it also ignores the fat that we know far far less than those who run the club about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes. They may know, for instance, that Warnock has retired, that Hughton means it when he says he wants to manage in the Prem, and that Pearson has a job!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 20 hours ago, Hampshire Red said: As someone who has gone to most home games and nearly all away games for several decades the answer to keeping it simple could be this :realism. That's it. This forum is very untypical of City fans. Most on here want instant success and are emotionally attached to venting their joys (for Lj after yet another winning streak) and their disappointment after 90mins of a home game. Keeping it real and keeping it simple may help those who are not able to really enjoy one of the best periods in the Club's history. If you were 100 years old, you would not have witnessed 10 years as good as this one nor the last one, nor the season before. Keep it real man. I have watched City since 1969 with all the highs and lows, but I can honestly say that I have never been so bored by the football we see at Ashton Gate this season. Even on the brink of bankruptcy with 9 kids in the team we had more to cheer about. Clearly position in the table is important but so is entertainment. If nothing changes I think Mr Lansdown may be a little surprised at the drop in season ticket demand next year. In terms of being realistic, it seems to me that clubs like Brentford, Preston and Swansea and even Millwall with income the same or less than ours manage a decent league position whilst entertaining their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombie Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said: In terms of being realistic, it seems to me that clubs like Brentford, Preston and Swansea and even Millwall with income the same or less than ours manage a decent league position whilst entertaining their fans. Pretty sure they all finished below us last season. Not sure Alex Neil has had Preston playing attractive football in his time there, not sure Millwall played great stuff under Neil Harris or currently under Rowett either. I think some people think the grass is greener elsewhere without realising it isn’t the case. Can’t deny I enjoy Brentford’s style, Swansea’s more patient style can occasionally be dull. The above clubs are a good yardstick for us though, we shouldn’t compare ourselves to former prem clubs who are in a different league to us financially, although a lot of those clubs are currently below us. People need to stop assuming everything is rosy elsewhere and appreciate what we have, despite our woes at home. Those fans should also consider watching us on the road, better day out and generally better football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 18:52, TonyTonyTony said: This. I was so looking forward to Friday night all last week. Few pints, good crowd, live on Sky plus we all had a buzz after a decent January transfer window and we produced that crock of shite. Anyone wanting Johnson gone now is smoking something as we are of course still in the mix but the performances are dire. It needs addressing. If we miss out this year, and it’s more of the same at home next season with LJ still in charge it will get toxic. I reckon I spend 100 -150 quid a month on supporting city and I want to go home with a smile on my face not pissed off. I'm much the same, it appears that the strategy is to play a very risk averse style of football and focus on not losing and tbh that is what LJ has done for the last couple of seasons. Stuff entertaining attacking football as it's too risky! I have watched 1000s of games over the years and whilst City are in my blood its painful to watch us play this way. I get the mind set of the club that they are putting things in place to do things within FFP and it's a steady progression but it would be nice to see us once in a while dominate a game and put 3 or 4 past a team by playing free flowing attacking football I may as well rock up 15mins before the end of a game when the shackles are removed and we are either trying to get a winner or an equaliser as the prior 75mins is more painful than sticking pins in your eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 21:03, Sir Geoff said: Warnock - retired, in his 70's only looking to manage for a short spell to get to a certain number of games in management (1000 I think) Hughton - Did you not listen to Brighton fans last year who were glad to see the back of him due to his dull negative don't lose tactics. McCarthy - Ditto Ipswich fans. Hasn't had a promotion on his cv for 10 yrs or so. Pearson - a belligerent bully who will not save Watford from relegation. If you want a change of style then you need to be suggesting names like, Slavica Jankovich, Gareth Ainsworth, The Cowley brothers, Aitor Karanka not that LJ is going anywhere with his 4 yr contract tucked under his belt. My description of these 4 names you mention is anything but ill informed or lazy. In fact reeling those same old names off is the lazy option...why not add the usual Allardyce, Pulis, Curbishley (he once got promoted), Pardew names whilst you are at it. You haven’t quoted anyone so not sure to whom you are replying, but I’ll assume it’s me ... ten years ago Mick McCarthy was managing in the premier league - difficult to get promoted from there. And you obviously aren’t aware of the financial constraints under which he had to operate at Ipswich - he had less than £1m per season to spend on players over the six years he was their manager - would you really except a guy to achieve promotion with those restrictions?! And you asked “Did you not listen to Brighton fans last season...?” Well, no, I didn’t, I don’t know any Brighton fans so not sure how I’d listen to people I don’t know?! You obviously spoke to loads of Brighton supporters over the last year ... or you probably just read a couple of social media posts and took those to be reflective of their entire fan base ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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