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Being honest...


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For me, a fair league position right now would be mid-table at best, we have some good individual players but in reality aren't a great side overall. In the same way the Premier league is three 'mini leagues', given our resources and lack of parachute payments, we are a middle tire side and therefore over performing.

I'm no fan of LJ as I don't believe he has the ability or knowledge tacticly to take us any further. I do however feel for him though given every time we have a decent player, they get sold on.

i sincerely hope I am wrong and that LJ takes us up (albeit we'll pretty much need a new team to stay and SL has already made it clear he would not spend given that eventuality).

We got beat by a much better team today but let's try and find the positives, we are lucky to be where we are and are over performing, in with a chance of the end of season mix up is good news - no other team seems to want it after all 👍

 

 

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1 minute ago, PFree said:

For me, a fair league position right now would be mid-table at best, we have some good individual players but in reality aren't a great side overall. In the same way the Premier league is three 'mini leagues', given our resources and lack of parachute payments, we are a middle tire side and therefore over performing.

I'm no fan of LJ as I don't believe he has the ability or knowledge tacticly to take us any further. I do however feel for him though given every time we have a decent player, they get sold on.

i sincerely hope I am wrong and that LJ takes us up (albeit we'll pretty much need a new team to stay and SL has already made it clear he would not spend given that eventuality).

We got beat by a much better team today but let's try and find the positives, we are lucky to be where we are and are over performing, in with a chance of the end of season mix up is good news - no other team seems to want it after all 👍

 

 

I honestly think we judge ourselves way too harshly. To my mind are 5 really strong teams in this division and, for the most part we have kept pace with them. I think there are then a number of teams who could argue to be around about as good as we are but I think we always overestimate how many genuinely strong teams there are in the division. We are where we deserve to be - so far at least. Perhaps we will slip a few places by the end of the season but we are seventh because we deserve to be seventh on merit and I don't think anyone outside of WBA, Leeds, Brentford, Fulham (who we beat) and of course Forest really can make a convincing case to be definitely better than us. 

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3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I honestly think we judge ourselves way too harshly. To my mind are 5 really strong teams in this division and, for the most part we have kept pace with them. I think there are then a number of teams who could argue to be around about as good as we are but I think we always overestimate how many genuinely strong teams there are in the division. We are where we deserve to be - so far at least. Perhaps we will slip a few places by the end of the season but we are seventh because we deserve to be seventh on merit and I don't think anyone outside of WBA, Leeds, Brentford, Fulham (who we beat) and of course Forest really can make a convincing case to be definitely better than us. 

I largely agree but Fulham are rather less than the sum of their parts imo.

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I honestly think we judge ourselves way too harshly. To my mind are 5 really strong teams in this division and, for the most part we have kept pace with them. I think there are then a number of teams who could argue to be around about as good as we are but I think we always overestimate how many genuinely strong teams there are in the division. We are where we deserve to be - so far at least. Perhaps we will slip a few places by the end of the season but we are seventh because we deserve to be seventh on merit and I don't think anyone outside of WBA, Leeds, Brentford, Fulham (who we beat) and of course Forest really can make a convincing case to be definitely better than us. 

PS I meant to say "perhaps Forest". Christ knows why I wrote "of course" instead...

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We might be in a “fair” league position but 30 odd percent possession game after game isn’t much fun to watch imo.

We have one or two individuals who can deliver one off moments of quality, a few with know how and the rest run through brick walls. Overall that makes us a pretty average side that play very average football but have the ability to grind out results.

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7 minutes ago, Honiton Tony said:

Let's face it if we went up we would be a bloody embarrassment

That , and this won’t be popular but I do think what if we were to ‘grind’ our way up

Can anyone seriously say , looking at us as a package now , and even with new summer recruits , they’d not fear about the outcome 

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1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

That , and this won’t be popular but I do think what if we were to ‘grind’ our way up

Can anyone seriously say , looking at us as a package now , and even with new summer recruits , they’d not fear about the outcome 

We wouldn’t get 10 points with the current squad but, of course, we would strengthen significantly.

Like I said though we are a pretty boring watch on the whole.

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

That , and this won’t be popular but I do think what if we were to ‘grind’ our way up

Can anyone seriously say , looking at us as a package now , and even with new summer recruits , they’d not fear about the outcome 

Of course. But my hope is we'd do what Burnley did, and use an unexpected promotion to grow the club, even accepting the possibility of coming straight back down and using those resources to build a team in a stronger position. If we fluked our way up and played our cards right, it could make us one of the strongest teams in the division in two years time and be a step towards becoming an established premier league side...

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

That , and this won’t be popular but I do think what if we were to ‘grind’ our way up

Can anyone seriously say , looking at us as a package now , and even with new summer recruits , they’d not fear about the outcome 

I've started to fear the playoffs.

This is almost a lose/lose situation for me. IF we get to the play-offs and get promoted, then unless we spend big I fear the worse. Regular beatings, fewer proper time kick-offs, higher prices and oodles more Sky pundit bellox. The only upside would be future parachute payments.

If we make it to the top six and don't go up, then the 'year on year' improvement and the achievement of making the play-offs means we will have to endure another year (or maybe more) of really dull football at home because it will have been proven to be a successful formula.

If we have to play the way we do at home in order to get into the play-offs I'm not sure I wan't us to get there. 

 

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23 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I largely agree but Fulham are rather less than the sum of their parts imo.

They are. If it was just based on ability they'd be walking the division.

I suspect their fans regularly have the same debate as we often do on here about whether their manager is getting the best out of what they've got.

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3 minutes ago, handballbygordonparr said:

I've started to fear the playoffs.

This is almost a lose/lose situation for me. IF we get to the play-offs and get promoted, then unless we spend big I fear the worse. Regular beatings, fewer proper time kick-offs, higher prices and oodles more Sky pundit bellox. The only upside would be future parachute payments.

If we make it to the top six and don't go up, then the 'year on year' improvement and the achievement of making the play-offs means we will have to endure another year (or maybe more) of really dull football at home because it will have been proven to be a successful formula.

If we have to play the way we do at home in order to get into the play-offs I'm not sure I wan't us to get there. 

 

Our way of playing at home will see season ticket sales and therefore crowds drop in the medium to long term, no two ways about that.

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11 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Of course. But my hope is we'd do what Burnley did, and use an unexpected promotion to grow the club, even accepting the possibility of coming straight back down and using those resources to build a team in a stronger position. If we fluked our way up and played our cards right, it could make us one of the strongest teams in the division in two years time and be a step towards becoming an established premier league side...

Exactly.

And That has to be accepted by us all.

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20 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We wouldn’t get 10 points with the current squad but, of course, we would strengthen significantly.

Like I said though we are a pretty boring watch on the whole.

We wouldn’t get ten points with the current squad and manager. The fact is that I still don’t see the value LJ brings to team structure or coordination. I don’t think he should be fired, but I look at these players and think a great manager would have them top two. 

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2 minutes ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

We wouldn’t get ten points with the current squad and manager. The fact is that I still don’t see the value LJ brings to team structure or coordination. I don’t think he should be fired, but I look at these players and think a great manager would have them top two. 

I think the fan base is at a crossroads. There’s a sizeable number that won’t have him, an equally sizeable number that think he’s God because we are in 7th and a large number of us who look at the current way of playing and wonder how long we want to watch it?

I’m not sure whether the benefactor is that bothered though........

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3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think the fan base is at a crossroads. There’s a sizeable number that won’t have him, an equally sizeable number that think he’s God because we are in 7th and a large number of us who look at the current way of playing and wonder how long we want to watch it?

I’m not sure whether the benefactor is that bothered though........

I think he’s giving him until the end of the season, which I think is reasonable. I’m not saying I won’t have LJ. I’m just saying I can’t explain to anybody what he brings to the table. And I do think that with this squad, we should finish 6th or 7th because we lose out on the last day. 

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20 minutes ago, handballbygordonparr said:

I've started to fear the playoffs.

This is almost a lose/lose situation for me. IF we get to the play-offs and get promoted, then unless we spend big I fear the worse. Regular beatings, fewer proper time kick-offs, higher prices and oodles more Sky pundit bellox. The only upside would be future parachute payments.

If we make it to the top six and don't go up, then the 'year on year' improvement and the achievement of making the play-offs means we will have to endure another year (or maybe more) of really dull football at home because it will have been proven to be a successful formula.

If we have to play the way we do at home in order to get into the play-offs I'm not sure I wan't us to get there. 

 

While I agree, remembering last season, based on the two games vs us, I would have said the same about Sheffield United.

So you never know...

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think the fan base is at a crossroads. There’s a sizeable number that won’t have him, an equally sizeable number that think he’s God because we are in 7th and a large number of us who look at the current way of playing and wonder how long we want to watch it?

I’m not sure whether the benefactor is that bothered though........

I actually think the number who either think he is God or won't have him at all is actually quite a small section of the fan base.

I think a far greater number of supporters are way more pragmatic than that, very open to the fact that he has flaws but are also aware that generally speaking he has delivered on expectation. Of course the football could be a lot better but, at the same time, the manager has rarely been able to field his first choice XI for much of the season and I think some of the performances are the result of pragmatic decisions to overcome shortcomings this has created in the team.

My view is we have to be competing for the play-offs this season and I would not accept a late season drop-off as in recent seasons. If we finish within 3 points of the play-offs or better then I'd accept we probably have him for next season and I'd be okay with that. If not, I'll probably feel it is time for a change. But I think far more of us judge LJ week by week and moderate our views based on what happens than there are people passionately pro or anti-him.

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48 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We wouldn’t get 10 points with the current squad but, of course, we would strengthen significantly.

Like I said though we are a pretty boring watch on the whole.

I won’t pay to watch us. Regardless of us being in the top 10 of the Championship,  I think we are one of the most boring City sides I’ve ever watched.

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40 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

They are. If it was just based on ability they'd be walking the division.

I suspect their fans regularly have the same debate as we often do on here about whether their manager is getting the best out of what they've got.

It’s all very well having young managers who have connections with the club but have achieved nothing in the game as managers,the simple equation is a proven manager would have Fulham strolling this league

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37 minutes ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

We wouldn’t get ten points with the current squad and manager. The fact is that I still don’t see the value LJ brings to team structure or coordination. I don’t think he should be fired, but I look at these players and think a great manager would have them top two. 

I think that's called settling

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42 minutes ago, handballbygordonparr said:

I've started to fear the playoffs.

This is almost a lose/lose situation for me. IF we get to the play-offs and get promoted, then unless we spend big I fear the worse. Regular beatings, fewer proper time kick-offs, higher prices and oodles more Sky pundit bellox. The only upside would be future parachute payments.

If we make it to the top six and don't go up, then the 'year on year' improvement and the achievement of making the play-offs means we will have to endure another year (or maybe more) of really dull football at home because it will have been proven to be a successful formula.

If we have to play the way we do at home in order to get into the play-offs I'm not sure I wan't us to get there. 

 

We  won't so don't worry but unfortunately we will have to endure it till LJ contract runs out..... he's gone as far as he can and some out of his hands selling player after play but your have to question why we've let Reid, Webster and Josh to go so to be follwed by NE in the summer and not get anywhere near them is beyond me.... they summer will be massive as know we have a structure in defence and up front we need to seriously focus on 3 if not 4 game changers in midfield and until that's done we won't get anywhere near the finish line ...... we're weak where it  matters most.

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15 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

It’s all very well having young managers who have connections with the club but have achieved nothing in the game as managers,the simple equation is a proven manager would have Fulham strolling this league

Not so sure on that. I remember when QPR scraped the play-offs under Harry Redknapp with an incredibly strong squad. I also remember Pearson and Karanka struggling with very decent Derby and Forest sides and Sven Goran Eriksson massively flopping with a heavily banked rolled Leicester City. Many looked at Cardiff's squad at the start of the season and thought Warnock would get them up in the automatics. 

This is a weird league and proven managers do not always equal proven results. 

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Yes we got beat by a better team today, but that was down to our 1st half performance. If only that was more like our 2nd half, then we could`ve made a better game of it. 

With COD coming on, it seemed to balance up the team and get us over the halfway more.

We are where we are in the league because we got more points than the teams below us  .... We are good, and more often than not play well (apart from our home form. But that`s for another thread)  So i say lets get behind the team, sing our hearts out for the next 13 games and see where that takes us ??

We ARE in the championship and thank the lord we are not scrapping down in the lowly leagues with the likes of our near tented village idiots neighbours 

As for today, i would like to see our penalty shout again.

And on a bigger note how the heck can leeds justify selling away tickets in that stand for £39??  ... For a start the roof is too low and then put the tv gantry up there aswell. the view and the experience was just shocking.

 

 

 

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