Joe Morrell Article

[Mr Popodopolous]

The players we're signing are largely or in recent times have largely been a reasonable range IMO.

LJ has some significant tactical blindspots though. It seems that players from higher levels here or abroad that we sign tend to stagnate, if not regress after promising starts...and this has gone on a few years.

Can't place it, can't put my finger on it but he has a problem- some say he signed them, some say he didn't but to me, they're good quality players or players with a decent level- it's up to him to get the best, within reason.

[And Its Smith]

will be interesting to see if everyone is still hoping Morrell is selected after he is given a run of games.  I don’t see him being a top championship midfielder but really hope I’m wrong.  He’s behind Smith, Walsh, Massengo and Nagy for me. How much more improving can he do? Hopefully lots.

Anyone writing off Massengo is a bit naive.  Clearly has everything but consistency which will come.

Patience needed with Nagy. Think we will see a great player sooner or later. Needs a run of games with no injury though. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some posters won't like this.

Watching foreign players indeed...some posters won't like that...

Why not?

16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Lot of scepticism about foreign players on here though- him watching Verratti, you won't like that eh.

I'm lost here, what point are you trying to make?

[Lew-T]

Watched Morrell in the FA cup game against Bolton last season and I thought he ran the show. Looked really impressive that night!

[Lanterne Rouge]

51 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Watched Morrell in the FA cup game against Bolton last season and I thought he ran the show. Looked really impressive that night!

He was good that day but looked a bit lost against better opposition (Wolves) in the next round. IIRC he got tactically subbed at HT along with Niclas.

[ORANGE500]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

will be interesting to see if everyone is still hoping Morrell is selected after he is given a run of games.  I don’t see him being a top championship midfielder but really hope I’m wrong.  He’s behind Smith, Walsh, Massengo and Nagy for me. How much more improving can he do? Hopefully lots.

Anyone writing off Massengo is a bit naive.  Clearly has everything but consistency which will come.

Patience needed with Nagy. Think we will see a great player sooner or later. Needs a run of games with no injury though. 

Massengo clearly has everything! have we been watching the same player because the one I've seen has shown a basic passing range not much pace to go past anyone and little or no goal threat,has he got any assists so far this season?. What he'll be like in the future is anyone's guess but at this time he is not as good as the players who have been loaned out and there are several others in that category as well. At best he should be part of the youth set up not a regular in the first team.

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

Massengo clearly has everything! have we been watching the same player because the one I've seen has shown a basic passing range not much pace to go past anyone and little or no goal threat,has he got any assists so far this season?. What he'll be like in the future is anyone's guess but at this time he is not as good as the players who have been loaned out and there are several others in that category as well. At best he should be part of the youth set up not a regular in the first team.

He’s 18.  I suspect if he was the same ability but came through the academy you’d have a different take and say he needed game time to continue his development.

Dont know if you watched his performance away to Derby. That’s how good he can be. As he’s 18 he’s inconsistent. Keep the faith 

[ORANGE500]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

He’s 18.  I suspect if he was the same ability but came through the academy you’d have a different take and say he needed game time to continue his development.

Dont know if you watched his performance away to Derby. That’s how good he can be. As he’s 18 he’s inconsistent. Keep the faith 

I suspect if he had come through the academy he would be out on loan somewhere, that's kind of my point the club has a well funded established academy set up which is not being utilised properly all that seems to happen is they get loaned out multiple times. I think I read somewhere that Tinnion questioned the merits of constantly bringing in players blocking the route in to the first team for those who have been developed by the club for a number of years. There were players at the club who should have been playing this season instead of bringing in an 18 year old ahead of them.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

I suspect if he had come through the academy he would be out on loan somewhere, that's kind of my point the club has a well funded established academy set up which is not being utilised properly all that seems to happen is they get loaned out multiple times. I think I read somewhere that Tinnion questioned the merits of constantly bringing in players blocking the route in to the first team for those who have been developed by the club for a number of years. There were players at the club who should have been playing this season instead of bringing in an 18 year old ahead of them.

Can’t agree. If an opportunity to sign an incredibly exciting 18 year old presents itself you cannot turn it down.  

[ORANGE500]

23 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Can’t agree. If an opportunity to sign an incredibly exciting 18 year old presents itself you cannot turn it down.  

I've not seen anything incredibly exciting from him as yet, no goals no assists gets dominated most games and most concerning his passing is very bssic, yes you'll say hes only 18  but thats my whole point there were others far more suitable to play this season. If the club were going to buy him should have been predominantly for the youth set up one for the future perhaps. Both Mesengo and Nagy were unnecessary signings the midfield options were already covered 

[And Its Smith]

28 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

I've not seen anything incredibly exciting from him as yet, no goals no assists gets dominated most games and most concerning his passing is very bssic, yes you'll say hes only 18  but thats my whole point there were others far more suitable to play this season. If the club were going to buy him should have been predominantly for the youth set up one for the future perhaps. Both Mesengo and Nagy were unnecessary signings the midfield options were already covered 

If you can’t see it then that’s on you. 

[Lrrr]

57 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

I've not seen anything incredibly exciting from him as yet, no goals no assists gets dominated most games and most concerning his passing is very bssic, yes you'll say hes only 18  but thats my whole point there were others far more suitable to play this season. If the club were going to buy him should have been predominantly for the youth set up one for the future perhaps. Both Mesengo and Nagy were unnecessary signings the midfield options were already covered 

If goals and assists are what you use to judge a player you're going to miss a lot of what makes a lot of players

Who was more capable? The likely 2 are Morrell and Walsh, Morrell had been on loan in league 2 (look how Szmodics has played when having the chance for comparison) and Walsh had barely had any game time, each has massively benefited from starting week in week out, if Nagy hadn't been injured they wouldn't have had weekly starts like Massengo got either. 

As said Walsh hadn't played much so would have been a gamble relying on him and Morrell had been playing league 2, if neither were able to adjust to the championship the LJ would have been accused of overlooking CM being an area that needed attention for a while (there were plenty of comments on here that we needed to bring in CM's) so we had Brownhill, Rowe (who was seemingly brought in as cover only), Palmer (but more signed to play as a CAM then a CM it seemed) and an injured Smith, we definitely needed addition(s). Walsh & Morrell's seasons out on loan could well be the making of them and their progression better than if they'd stayed here for this season.

[Son of Fred]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Korey as RB / RWB cover....think he’d be perfect there and prolong his career.

Not sure he has the legs anymore for RWB,,,,but take your point,would indeed stretch things out..

[SuperRed]

It would be interesting to see how we would do next season with Walsh and Morrell in a 3 alongside a big physical player. It would be nice to watch a Bristol City midfield that could keep the ball and have good movement. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ORANGE500 said:

I've not seen anything incredibly exciting from him as yet, no goals no assists gets dominated most games

Dominated? In what way? Most games?

and most concerning his passing is very bssic, yes you'll say hes only 18  but thats my whole point there were others far more suitable to play this season.

his passing is “basic”, because it’s pass and move, get it back, move it on.  That’s the role he’s been asked to play.  It’s not meant to be expansive, Hoddle-esque.

If the club were going to buy him should have been predominantly for the youth set up one for the future perhaps.
He was bought with the intention of gradually working his way into the team.  Nagy got injured.

Both Mesengo and Nagy were unnecessary signings the midfield options were already covered

I have gone on record saying that I’m yet to convinced by Walsh.  It is much easier to shine in a table topping Lg1 side than in a Championship side battling with 7-10 clubs battling for the play-offs.  I hope he proves me wrong, but it would’ve been a huge leap of faith to entrust Walsh back in late-August when the midfield already included Palmer and Brownhill (5212), or in a midfield two in a 442 with Brownhill.

We have yet to see Walsh play well at Championship level when the rest of the team struggled.  The Stoke second half the whole team was playing well, Pato and Dasilva as influential that day too.  Maybe Walsh lifted them....but that is speculating.  System change helped that day.

With the squad as it was at the time, e.g. no Korey, Joe Morrell would’ve been a better choice / style of player to have not been loaned out. In my opinion!

 

14 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Not sure he has the legs anymore for RWB,,,,but take your point,would indeed stretch things out..

Yeah, not week in week out I agree

[BUTOR]

10 hours ago, hodge said:

If we’d recalled Walsh/Morrell and we fell short he’d have been accused of bottling the transfer window, pressure of being in the run for the play offs again was huge. How many fans would have been against signing Benkovic given how much he cost Leicester.

Absolutely we would have, perhaps we finally caved into fan pressure to our detriment then?

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Absolutely we would have, perhaps we finally caved into fan pressure to our detriment then?

So recall Walsh/Morrell and fall short - LJ gets slated for not doing more in the transfer window

Signs Nagy and international with Serie A experience and Massengo an extremely highly rated youngster with champions league experience - Should have recalled one of Morrell or Walsh

No win scenario for LJ really

[ORANGE500]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

If goals and assists are what you use to judge a player you're going to miss a lot of what makes a lot of players

Who was more capable? The likely 2 are Morrell and Walsh, Morrell had been on loan in league 2 (look how Szmodics has played when having the chance for comparison) and Walsh had barely had any game time, each has massively benefited from starting week in week out, if Nagy hadn't been injured they wouldn't have had weekly starts like Massengo got either. 

As said Walsh hadn't played much so would have been a gamble relying on him and Morrell had been playing league 2, if neither were able to adjust to the championship the LJ would have been accused of overlooking CM being an area that needed attention for a while (there were plenty of comments on here that we needed to bring in CM's) so we had Brownhill, Rowe (who was seemingly brought in as cover only), Palmer (but more signed to play as a CAM then a CM it seemed) and an injured Smith, we definitely needed addition(s). Walsh & Morrell's seasons out on loan could well be the making of them and their progression better than if they'd stayed here for this season.

You're kind of proving my point here, the fact that Walsh and Morrell have not been given the game time is the issue.Massengo and Nagy have played many times this season how good would  the former two  have been after 8-10 games consecutively we just don't  know because the manager didnt want to  play them he's reluctant to play any of the players from the academy(only Lloyd Kelly has had proper game time until he was benched for Dasilva) As I said in a previous post its just one loan spell after another probably until they're about 25 I think City must have more players out on loan than any other club in the country there must be about 500 players on the books 

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

You're kind of proving my point here, the fact that Walsh and Morrell have not been given the game time is the issue.Massengo and Nagy have played many times this season how good would  the former two  have been after 8-10 games consecutively we just don't  know because the manager didnt want to  play them he's reluctant to play any of the players from the academy(only Lloyd Kelly has had proper game time until he was benched for Dasilva) As I said in a previous post its just one loan spell after another probably until they're about 25 I think City must have more players out on loan than any other club in the country there must be about 500 players on the books 

Perhaps outside the premier league, but in itself a loan system is another source of income for City through loan fees (assuming we charge one.... Can't remember if there was an interview which said we did/did not). So what happens if we didn't sign Nagy/Massengo kept Walsh and Morrell and they massively struggled for 6 months to January? We're 7th as things stand and Morrell/Walsh have had very good seasons for putting them in a place for coming back to play here, its hard to argue against really.

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

he's reluctant to play any of the players from the academy(only Lloyd Kelly has had proper game

Its a hard situation though, if you keep them around so they could be played, if they're not in the 18 all they can do is play 23's football, is that more of a detriment then them playing league football? 

[BUTOR]

11 minutes ago, hodge said:

So recall Walsh/Morrell and fall short - LJ gets slated for not doing more in the transfer window

Signs Nagy and international with Serie A experience and Massengo an extremely highly rated youngster with champions league experience - Should have recalled one of Morrell or Walsh

No win scenario for LJ really

LJ isn’t the one making transfers so I wouldn’t put the blame on him for any of it.

Nagy and Massengo were signed in the summer, I’m referring to the January transfer window in particular the Hendrikson signing which was pointless and detrimental, I also feel Taylor Moore had done nothing to warrant being sent back down to league one in place of a loan signing. Hopefully the way it’s gone will make fans realise we aren’t playing Fifa. 

[Lrrr]

13 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

LJ isn’t the one making transfers so I wouldn’t put the blame on him for any of it.

Nagy and Massengo were signed in the summer, I’m referring to the January transfer window in particular the Hendrikson signing which was pointless and detrimental, I also feel Taylor Moore had done nothing to warrant being sent back down to league one in place of a loan signing. Hopefully the way it’s gone will make fans realise we aren’t playing Fifa. 

How many of the general fanbase don't see it that way about LJ and transfers though?

How many people would blame us for signing Benkovic? £13m signing for Leicester, if Taylor had stayed he probably would have only made the bench at most barring injuries/suspensions with Kalas fit again so keeping him playing till the end of the season was probably better for him. Williams/Benkovic off at the end of the season and Moore would be back as 3rd choice rather than 4th before Benkovic and 5th after.

[E.G.Red]

Interesting article in The Post today

[Lrrr]

37 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Interesting article in The Post today

Which one?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

How many of the general fanbase don't see it that way about LJ and transfers though?

How many people would blame us for signing Benkovic? £13m signing for Leicester, if Taylor had stayed he probably would have only made the bench at most barring injuries/suspensions with Kalas fit again so keeping him playing till the end of the season was probably better for him. Williams/Benkovic off at the end of the season and Moore would be back as 3rd choice rather than 4th before Benkovic and 5th after.

The question with the Benkovic loan is did we need it.  Kalas, Baker and Williams cover the two CB positions, followed by Moore, who has proved himself capable if not dominant....add Vyner too.  Why did we need another CB?  Even if LJ felt Moore needed half a season toughening up, we still had Vyner.

Don't get me wrong I see ability in Benkovic, but if Baker and Kalas stay fit I don’t see him playing many minutes.  I know injuries to both Kalas and Baker have happened, but it feels like another club in the bag.

I saw the logic of Henriksen, being a more physical midfielder, and I thought he played well on debut....but I would rather we recalled Morrell or Walsh.

Wells was a good signing imho, for a sensible fee.

Under constrained budgets going forward due to CV, LJ is gonna have to rein in his whims...and start to use these players on the fringe.

[marcofisher]

On 15/04/2020 at 15:43, Davefevs said:

Korey as RB / RWB cover....think he’d be perfect there and prolong his career.

If we are playing 352 though we need an out and out wing back who can get up and down the flanks, I don't think Smith is that player. If anything, he would be more effective as a full back with a winger in front of him. 

I get the impression that Eliasson will be sold and we will persist with 352 next season. 

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Under constrained budgets going forward due to CV, LJ is gonna have to rein in his whims...and start to use these players on the fringe.

Or if as some articles are speculating that the championship introduces a wage cap more championship players could look to moving abroad to earn similar levels of money if they don't want to take the (for some at least) over 50% pay cut as £6000 a week has been the speculated amount, think the post were talking about it earlier.

[E.G.Red]

5 hours ago, hodge said:

Which one?

My apologies As my comment was in the ‘Joe Morrell article ‘ thread , I presumed my comment needed no further explanation. For the uninitiated it is on the back and penultimate pages of today’s Post. Speaks about how he has no regrets at rejecting Liverpool as a teenager.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

My apologies As my comment was in the ‘Joe Morrell article ‘ thread , I presumed my comment needed no further explanation. 

Couldn't see an obvious link so was wondering what the title was

Edit - think I found the one, was online yesterday, had already read it so was looking for a different one

[JamesBCFC]

On 15/04/2020 at 21:39, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interested in the line of reasoning though by @ORANGE500 that says a guy from a highly renowned academy such as Monaco, and scouted (if press to be believed) by Arsenal, Chelsea and  Borussia Dortmund, isn't good enough for us.

The Arsenal scouting isnt just press stuff.

The scout was seen at the ground by the Stoke commentators for their video of the game and they mentioned it during the game.