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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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The posters who have mentioned the toilets make very valid points. You can stagger arrival times at the ground and socially distance seating but you cannot control when people need a pee. Some people cannot wait until half time due to waterworks problems, not that half time would be long enough for people who need to go. Can you imagine the queue's? You'd miss a good chunk of the game and probably risk an "accident" if you can't get there quick enough. Would we all have allocated wee times? And I can imagine the arguments breaking out because people are getting out of their seat, walking past others to get to the concourse. Seems like a logistical nightmare to me.

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11 minutes ago, Red Shadow said:

The posters who have mentioned the toilets make very valid points. You can stagger arrival times at the ground and socially distance seating but you cannot control when people need a pee. Some people cannot wait until half time due to waterworks problems, not that half time would be long enough for people who need to go. Can you imagine the queue's? You'd miss a good chunk of the game and probably risk an "accident" if you can't get there quick enough. Would we all have allocated wee times? And I can imagine the arguments breaking out because people are getting out of their seat, walking past others to get to the concourse. Seems like a logistical nightmare to me.

Just copy how they have done it abroad.  

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7 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

It’s not the being outside, it’s all about controlling the queues. 4000 people need the loo socially distanced is a long line out the ground. How often do you clean the taps etc. in the toilet. Catering how do you safely queue and not touch surfaces. 

These are the problems that need sorting when at the ground. 

This is seriously overcomplicating, and if you're that concerned just don't go. I think it's fair that every individual decides the amount of risk they're willing to take based on what we know, but when you agonise over the very small risk involved in washing your hands after having a piss, I'm thinking don't wash your hands then. Problem solved.

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49 minutes ago, markcarter said:

We’re literally one of the hotspots for levels of infection in the country with the rates soaring.  No chance it will anything other than tier 3.

Sure but for how long? Exeter’s numbers went nuts but came down as quick as they’d gone up. Clutching at straws here but the Boxing Day game is still nearly 5 weeks away

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5 minutes ago, reddoc said:

This is seriously overcomplicating, and if you're that concerned just don't go. I think it's fair that every individual decides the amount of risk they're willing to take based on what we know, but when you agonise over the very small risk involved in washing your hands after having a piss, I'm thinking don't wash your hands then. Problem solved.

Just stating it’s not the getting in that’s the problem.

What people do inside the ground that’s the problem. Only takes 1 person to not follow the rules and pass it on and then someone says they got it at football then that is the end of it for everyone. 
 

Volunteer at a non league team and know how many rules are in place to get games on with crowds of 200 to 300, and that is in a high rate area of  Manchester. 
 

Crowds are needed at football or teams will die, but people need to follow rules (wash hands, queue correctly, remember you may not be able to get food and drink to social distancing).

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40 minutes ago, reddoc said:

This is seriously overcomplicating, and if you're that concerned just don't go. I think it's fair that every individual decides the amount of risk they're willing to take based on what we know, but when you agonise over the very small risk involved in washing your hands after having a piss, I'm thinking don't wash your hands then. Problem solved.

Understand what you’re saying but it’s / the subject is not as simple as ‘if you’re concerned don’t go’ 

Yes , you can do that and eliminate the direct risk but surely the point / question is

 

Does allowing fans back risk spreading the virus ?

 

(The answer , to whatever degree has to be yes)

so

What is the level of risk (To everyone , not particularly those attending) (Can it be accurately predicted ?)

and

is that risk acceptable ?

Spreading the virus would create danger and risk for everyone of us , particularly the most vulnerable , most of whom may never have set foot in a football ground

 

Just my personal view

 

 

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1 hour ago, Red Shadow said:

The posters who have mentioned the toilets make very valid points. You can stagger arrival times at the ground and socially distance seating but you cannot control when people need a pee. Some people cannot wait until half time due to waterworks problems, not that half time would be long enough for people who need to go. Can you imagine the queue's? You'd miss a good chunk of the game and probably risk an "accident" if you can't get there quick enough. Would we all have allocated wee times? And I can imagine the arguments breaking out because people are getting out of their seat, walking past others to get to the concourse. Seems like a logistical nightmare to me.

You can't be serious? 

Stop looking at the negative in the situation. 

If we are to split 4,000 around the ground. 

There's more than enough capacity for that number. 

A socially distanced pub I was drinking in had a capacity of 84 people and easily coped with two urinals and a cubicle for men and two cubicles for women.

It's been proven to work elsewhere, it will work fine for us

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23 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Does allowing fans back risk spreading the virus ?

(The answer , to whatever degree has to be yes)

Just my personal view

I really don't understand what you can base this on, I appreciate this is your opinion but please read up on the preventative measures that will be in place. 

Do you honestly think grounds would be being reopened if there was any risk?

It simply wouldn't happen 

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7 hours ago, italian dave said:

Wouldn't think any chance of that. We're already debating the different ways of restricting demand from existing ST holders so they're not likely to sell more. 

What's more debatable/interesting is whether and when they start selling next seasons.....

The 4K number will rise. I wouldn’t be surprised if the club sold more, the plan was to sell more when fans came back when they took them off sale at the start of the season but I’m not sure they were expecting a wait this long. 

As for next season, wouldn’t think it will be too different to usual. Club won’t want to miss a trick if we’re still flying and they’ll be very confident fans will be back in near full capacity next season. 

This will go way, way smoother than a lot of people on here seem to think. With the vaccine coming events all over the country due for summer including festivals have been given very positive indications. 

Of course we should still expect a few government howlers and backtracks... but we can be genuinely confident the overall prajectory is going to be positive from here. 

Keep the faith 

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9 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Understand what you’re saying but it’s / the subject is not as simple as ‘if you’re concerned don’t go’ 

Yes , you can do that and eliminate the direct risk but surely the point / question is

 

Does allowing fans back risk spreading the virus ?

 

(The answer , to whatever degree has to be yes)

so

What is the level of risk (To everyone , not particularly those attending) (Can it be accurately predicted ?)

and

is that risk acceptable ?

Spreading the virus would create danger and risk for everyone of us , particularly the most vulnerable , most of whom may never have set foot in a football ground

 

Just my personal view

 

 

Totally agree, but in terms of figures, no one will be able to provide you with a comparative number. I would suggest the risk is significantly less than going to the pub/restaurant, supermarket, using public transport or going to work. It's probably more than pitching a tent on Orkney and staying there for the next 6 months. Like many others I've given up on trying to see the logic in the contradictory advice we've been given and do my own simplistic risk assessment on my current activities.

Which is what I was kind of saying in my original post. If you're uncomfortable with the situation don't go, because obviously the clubs are limited in their ability to sanitise the whole stadium.

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9 hours ago, phantom said:

You can't be serious? 

Stop looking at the negative in the situation. 

If we are to split 4,000 around the ground. 

There's more than enough capacity for that number. 

A socially distanced pub I was drinking in had a capacity of 84 people and easily coped with two urinals and a cubicle for men and two cubicles for women.

It's been proven to work elsewhere, it will work fine for us

I agree that Ashton gate will be able to cope , especially if fans are sensible and see it as a privilege to be allowed in. I do however with the number of Covid cases being reported,  fully expect Bristol to be in a minimum tier 2 and therefore it will only be 2000 fans and not the 4000 capacity that everyone seems to be getting excited about. 

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8 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

The 4K number will rise. I wouldn’t be surprised if the club sold more, the plan was to sell more when fans came back when they took them off sale at the start of the season but I’m not sure they were expecting a wait this long. 

As for next season, wouldn’t think it will be too different to usual. Club won’t want to miss a trick if we’re still flying and they’ll be very confident fans will be back in near full capacity next season. 

This will go way, way smoother than a lot of people on here seem to think. With the vaccine coming events all over the country due for summer including festivals have been given very positive indications. 

Of course we should still expect a few government howlers and backtracks... but we can be genuinely confident the overall prajectory is going to be positive from here. 

Keep the faith 

I can't see it rising much by, say, March though. And bearing in mind that Bristol is likely to start in tier 2 or 3, the starting point for Ashton Gate is probably going to be between zero and 2000. 

As long as they are still refunding some ST holders on a match by match basis, I can't see any way they'll want to add new ones.

I agree that there's reason for much more optimism about next season. And that we can be hopeful of getting back to much nearer normal, and normal capacity, by then. I didn't really mean to suggest that we won't be looking to sell more STs than this year, just wondering whether we'll be doing it in February, like we did this season! 

All conjecture, of course, and subject to ups and downs and as you say government whims, but I just think the restrictions and the uncertainty won't have gone away by Feb, and the government (probably rightly) won't be looking to declare life back to normal quite by then. 

But, yes, we will hopefully all be able to return to the Gate next season. And maybe even away trips too!

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Getting way ahead of myself here, but as a non-STH with little chance of going to Ashton Gate any time soon, I’m more concerned about the lack of a membership scheme this year and how I guarantee myself a ticket for Wembley in May when full crowds might be back!

It was a nightmare in 2008, when there was no membership scheme and lots of genuine supporters missed out to day trippers. Hopefully this wouldn’t be repeated.

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2 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

I agree that Ashton gate will be able to cope , especially if fans are sensible and see it as a privilege to be allowed in. I do however with the number of Covid cases being reported,  fully expect Bristol to be in a minimum tier 2 and therefore it will only be 2000 fans and not the 4000 capacity that everyone seems to be getting excited about. 

As of last night the  BRI had 99 patients and Weston had 24 patients with coronavirus, Weston only has 3 in CCU.

The large numbers are self isolating and having very little impact on NHS

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19 minutes ago, phantom said:

As of last night Bristol had 99 patients and Weston had 24 patients with coronavirus, Weston only has 3 in CCU.

The large numbers are self isolating and having very little impact on NHS

99 pos cases in all bristol hospitals???...

One thing I am allowed to tell you is that figure doesn't even cover ONE of our major hospitals....

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10 hours ago, phantom said:

I really don't understand what you can base this on, I appreciate this is your opinion but please read up on the preventative measures that will be in place. 

Do you honestly think grounds would be being reopened if there was any risk?

It simply wouldn't happen 

Simple logic and common sense really Phants , putting it bluntly

In retort I could ask 

‘Can you guarantee that x thousand people travelling to and attending a game , plus all the staff etc will not cause a spread of the virus to not even one person ?’

With due respect , no you , or anyone else can - the risk may be small , minor , even negligible  but the consequences are , potentially , at least ,high 

 

I fully understand why fans are so keen to get back in but I’m really unsure the risk levels and timing are right at this time

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57 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Getting way ahead of myself here, but as a non-STH with little chance of going to Ashton Gate any time soon, I’m more concerned about the lack of a membership scheme this year and how I guarantee myself a ticket for Wembley in May when full crowds might be back!

It was a nightmare in 2008, when there was no membership scheme and lots of genuine supporters missed out to day trippers. Hopefully this wouldn’t be repeated.

Agree we are getting ahead of ourselves but if we make it to Wembley I can’t see full crowds being back in May. I suspect it will be capped at about 30000 (1/3rd) and that’s being optimistic, with a beam back to Ashton Gate for possibly 7/9000 fans (again based on 1/3rd capacity)

 

 

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As soon as people over about 60 have had the vaccine then full houses should be back - you'd hope they can roll this out fairly swiftly. The people under 60 getting issues with this are so low it isn't worth holding up life for everyone else. So I would expect full houses by start of next season latest. Hopefully for the euros as I have tickets 6 games...

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13 hours ago, Loco Rojo said:

It's good that smaller clubs have been testing and trialling it but I'm still not convinved it's safe enough to justify the risks (or the costs to the club). Clubs might be able to stagger entry times and check IDs but that doesn't completely remove the risks of the virus spreading as per some of my examples. I'm not convinced it can be policed safely throughout.  This isn't a model where every club is the same and therefore testing it at a few clubs lower down the pyramid means it'll work and deliver the same results at every club. 

I know you could argue the risks are the same as walking down the street or through Cabot Circus where there are lots of people not socially distancing (which is probably already a contributing factor to the numbers increasing in itself) but the difference here (imo) is for the sake of entertainment, the Government and Football authorities are willing to turn the tap on to increase the spread of the virus.  Feels wrong at this time when a vaccine hasn't yet been rolled out.

I'm glad I'm not alone here...

12 hours ago, reddoc said:

This is seriously overcomplicating, and if you're that concerned just don't go. I think it's fair that every individual decides the amount of risk they're willing to take based on what we know, but when you agonise over the very small risk involved in washing your hands after having a piss, I'm thinking don't wash your hands then. Problem solved.

This is such a selfish attitude. It stinks of "I want to do as much as I can as soon as I can" whereas some of us dont want another bloody lockdown. I'd rather wait til April to be able to attend football if it meant I dont spend (potentially) another month barely leaving my house again.

It's not down to the individual to assess his/her risk IMO because they cannot control who they then pass the virus on to.

10 hours ago, phantom said:

I really don't understand what you can base this on, I appreciate this is your opinion but please read up on the preventative measures that will be in place. 

Do you honestly think grounds would be being reopened if there was any risk?

It simply wouldn't happen 

Yes I do. Lots of things have been done by this government despite the risk - eat out to help out?

You can't say there is no risk. There is risk in everything, but the key is to weigh up the risk against the importance of the place that's opening. We all want football open, but is it essential right now just after being put in a national lockdown because cases were so high? IMO no, should be discussed absolutely, but shouldn't be happening until after Xmas.

I know it's slightly off topic but also opening indoor venues, are we to believe there's no risk to that either?

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31 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I'm glad I'm not alone here...

This is such a selfish attitude. It stinks of "I want to do as much as I can as soon as I can" whereas some of us dont want another bloody lockdown. I'd rather wait til April to be able to attend football if it meant I dont spend (potentially) another month barely leaving my house again.

It's not down to the individual to assess his/her risk IMO because they cannot control who they then pass the virus on to.

Yes I do. Lots of things have been done by this government despite the risk - eat out to help out?

You can't say there is no risk. There is risk in everything, but the key is to weigh up the risk against the importance of the place that's opening. We all want football open, but is it essential right now just after being put in a national lockdown because cases were so high? IMO no, should be discussed absolutely, but shouldn't be happening until after Xmas.

I know it's slightly off topic but also opening indoor venues, are we to believe there's no risk to that either?

Great post , & points well explained

 

The Huddersfield Chairman Just Been on the radio saying he believes they could deal with %25 capacity ,

but

believes (For the reasons you’ve outlined) that we should wait until the start of next year with vaccines / rapid testing etc  in place , and open up then , with more numbers .

 

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1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

99 pos cases in all bristol hospitals???...

One thing I am allowed to tell you is that figure doesn't even cover ONE of our major hospitals....

 

1 hour ago, Bob Taylor is GOD said:

Where have you got those figures from?

 

Apologies @Son of Fred and @Bob Taylor is GOD predictive text on my phone

Should have said BRI not Bristol as you both correctly highlighted

Figures from a neighbour who is a surgeon at Weston hospital, these figures were from a conference call last night

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1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Simple logic and common sense really Phants , putting it bluntly

In retort I could ask 

‘Can you guarantee that x thousand people travelling to and attending a game , plus all the staff etc will not cause a spread of the virus to not even one person ?’

With due respect , no you , or anyone else can - the risk may be small , minor , even negligible  but the consequences are , potentially , at least ,high 

Scientifically it has been proved that with the correct preventative measure the virus doesn't transfer between people

Public transport has coped very well with the measures in place

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

Scientifically it has been proved that with the correct preventative measure the virus doesn't transfer between people

Public transport has coped very well with the measures in place

Well Phants

For all the advice and precautions the virus is miraculously spreading wildly , somehow still , with thousands of new cases 

 

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37 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I'm glad I'm not alone here...

You can't say there is no risk. There is risk in everything, but the key is to weigh up the risk against the importance of the place that's opening. We all want football open, but is it essential right now just after being put in a national lockdown because cases were so high? IMO no, should be discussed absolutely, but shouldn't be happening until after Xmas.

Like before, I fully respect yours and @Sheltons Army opinion (among others), but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum we our views on this subject.

I'm of the believe that as long as the correct measures are followed, for everyone from the moment they leave home to returning home.

Pubs and public transport were working fine with the measures brought in, and with the social distancing added into the ground I would be very confident that it would be safe to return

I do appreciate people don't always agree with this, but for me the returning of games is much more than just watching a game of football.

As someone who still struggles with serious mental health problems I can't begin to tell you how much it would help someone like me

During the last lockdown I was a guest of a company having a meal etc and watching the Norwich game at the ground, the impact of just being around familiar surroundings and the odd familiar face was massive 

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Well Phants

For all the advice and precautions the virus is miraculously spreading wildly , somehow still , with thousands of new cases 

 

That can't be denied, but I wonder how much is down to people not following precautionary measures?

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2 minutes ago, phantom said:

Like before, I fully respect yours and @Sheltons Army opinion (among others), but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum we our views on this subject.

I'm of the believe that as long as the correct measures are followed, for everyone from the moment they leave home to returning home.

Pubs and public transport were working fine with the measures brought in, and with the social distancing added into the ground I would be very confident that it would be safe to return

I do appreciate people don't always agree with this, but for me the returning of games is much more than just watching a game of football.

As someone who still struggles with serious mental health problems I can't begin to tell you how much it would help someone like me

During the last lockdown I was a guest of a company having a meal etc and watching the Norwich game at the ground, the impact of just being around familiar surroundings and the odd familiar face was massive 

That can't be denied, but I wonder how much is down to people not following precautionary measures?

And having a different opinion and debate is fine Phants

And , I fully understand , for yourself and many there are more benefits to them than simply watching a football match , so your point is a very good and valid one 

May I also say , and a very brave one to voice , my total respect to you

It’s totally impractical to administer but  Id rather see a couple of hundred fans admitted who had a real need and I hope you are the first to get in 

it’s the entitlement of some football fans ‘I want to go and **** any risk to society ‘ that p** me off 

There was a Spurs fan on the radio yesterday who lives in Yorkshire But is travelling down to North London to watch the game v Arsenal in a ‘Spurs’ Pub

The behaviour of the scousers and Leeds fans shows there are plenty of selfish ***** who will do what they want,

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As much as we all want to be back watching football, I can't believe we have not even come out of a national lockdown yet and talk of allowing such large gatherings is crazy. Unfortunately comments about asking people to be sensible and respect distancing are not going to happen, the major spread has been by the FU generation, who see themselves as not going to catch it and nobody is going to spoil their fun, so mingle close in pubs and party's with no consideration whatsoever who they may pass on to.

 

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