Were you at the Bristol Derby in May 1990?

[Miah Dennehy]

12 hours ago, Hello Dave said:

I think that last bit is spot on. We had chances to have the league sewn up before this game. The ones trying to make excuses for that game make us look a bit tin pot. No excuses, one team turned up that night, and it wasn’t us!

Exactly. For most of my life (I'm 55) City have had the upper hand, I'm not sure how many times we have finished in a higher position in that time (I'd guess 4 or 5) and the gap between our clubs is now an ever widening gulf. I don't for a second think there was any skulduggery over the postponed game ( and I knew a lot of people at Rovers at the time and I think I would have heard something if there was) . Rovers were just the better team and sometimes you just have to accept defeat .

[Rich]

5 hours ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Exactly. For most of my life (I'm 55) City have had the upper hand, I'm not sure how many times we have finished in a higher position in that time (I'd guess 4 or 5) and the gap between our clubs is now an ever widening gulf. I don't for a second think there was any skulduggery over the postponed game ( and I knew a lot of people at Rovers at the time and I think I would have heard something if there was) . Rovers were just the better team and sometimes you just have to accept defeat .

I can accept defeat, yours was the better team on the night and that result determined the title, well done.

What I can't accept is that there was no skullduggery in the postponement of the original scheduled game. You might well have known people at the club, you are not the only one. I was reliably informed that the groundsman, intentionally cut a water pipe,  to the corner of the pitch. This coinciding with heavy rain made that area unplayable. Fortunately there just happened to be a referee there at quite an early hour to carry out an inspection of the pitch and announce the postponement of the game at 8.15 am. The fact there was still nearly 7 hrs before the kick off and no distance for fans to travel made it a strange time to call the game off, it's almost as if it was planned.

Move forward to Stockport County and a few days before an important local derby and we have, rain and Stockport County officials witnessing the groundsman watering the pitch (in the corner) and, the game being postponed due to that area of the pitch being unplayable. The FA realised there was a case to answer and gave BRFC an official warning about the incident. Sound familiar?

I do believe it was the same groundsman, it was most certainly the same regime in the boardroom.

[Miah Dennehy]

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

I can accept defeat, yours was the better team on the night and that result determined the title, well done.

What I can't accept is that there was no skullduggery in the postponement of the original scheduled game. You might well have known people at the club, you are not the only one. I was reliably informed that the groundsman, intentionally cut a water pipe,  to the corner of the pitch. This coinciding with heavy rain made that area unplayable. Fortunately there just happened to be a referee there at quite an early hour to carry out an inspection of the pitch and announce the postponement of the game at 8.15 am. The fact there was still nearly 7 hrs before the kick off and no distance for fans to travel made it a strange time to call the game off, it's almost as if it was planned.

Move forward to Stockport County and a few days before an important local derby and we have, rain and Stockport County officials witnessing the groundsman watering the pitch (in the corner) and, the game being postponed due to that area of the pitch being unplayable. The FA realised there was a case to answer and gave BRFC an official warning about the incident. Sound familiar?

I do believe it was the same groundsman, it was most certainly the same regime in the boardroom.

Jackie Pitt was the groundsman, I knew him quite well and he was certainly old school. I can't prove it of course, but I think if someone had suggested to him that he should 'intentionally cut a water pipe'  then that person would have got the same treatment Ernie Peacock did

[sugarwray]

They sold the original matchday programme printed for the 3 February fixture on the night. The font size for the Team Talk must have been the smallest in any matchday programme I have seen. I recall very bad traffic on the A4 on the way to the game. At one stage an ambulance had to fight its way through, tailgated by a car with some very animated City fans inside. At the ground I remember there was a very senior City fan, who was the size of a jockey, who had come on the official coaches and could not find his ticket. He went to every away game and always wore his suit which would have been what people wore to games when he started watching. Beryl Fudge got into a raging argument with the turnstile crew, insisting that he had never missed a game and that he should be admitted without a ticket on her word that he had bought one. I was pleased to see him in the ground later so Beryl must have won the argument. The City fan conduct was not good that night, I remember Joe Jordan appealing for calm but too many in the crowd could not take their medicine.

[Rich]

3 hours ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Jackie Pitt was the groundsman, I knew him quite well and he was certainly old school. I can't prove it of course, but I think if someone had suggested to him that he should 'intentionally cut a water pipe'  then that person would have got the same treatment Ernie Peacock did

Ah! ok, that's cleared that up then. Of course he was seventy at the time, though still employed as the groundsman.

I can't seem to find who the groundsman was that went from Twerton Park, to the rugby ground when they returned. 

[Hello Dave]

9 hours ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Exactly. For most of my life (I'm 55) City have had the upper hand, I'm not sure how many times we have finished in a higher position in that time (I'd guess 4 or 5) and the gap between our clubs is now an ever widening gulf. I don't for a second think there was any skulduggery over the postponed game ( and I knew a lot of people at Rovers at the time and I think I would have heard something if there was) . Rovers were just the better team and sometimes you just have to accept defeat .

Im 57, I grew up with( and I hate the term) your main boys! That mid to late 80s period was a dark time for us , as far as Derby’s were concerned. Fortunately , we’ve gained the upper hand ever since, although we haven’t played you much. I can’t remember the original game being called off( although I obviously had a ticket), so I wouldn’t suggest there was anything untoward about it. I do remember being a little bit suspicious about the Stockport farce though. Do you miss the Derbys?  I think the modern day game is so sanitised that I would love a derby again, but they’re only good if you win!

[East Londoner]

30 minutes ago, Rich said:

Ah! ok, that's cleared that up then. Of course he was seventy at the time, though still employed as the groundsman.

I can't seem to find who the groundsman was that went from Twerton Park, to the rugby ground when they returned. 

Leaving whether the original postponement was legit or not to one side for a second, did the two cup replay games against Cambridge that season stop the game being rescheduled earlier?

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 hours ago, sugarwray said:

Tt. He went to every away game and always wore his suit which would have been what people wore to games when he started watching. Beryl Fudge got into a raging argument with the turnstile crew, insisting that he had never missed a game and that he should be admitted without a ticket on her word that he had bought one. I was pleased to see him in the ground later so Beryl must have won the argument. The City fan conduct was not good that night, I remember Joe Jordan appealing for calm but too many in the crowd could not take their medicine.

 

 

He was called Mick something and was from WSM - he passed away about twenty years ago I should think.

He did used to always wear a suit and, rather bizarrely, football boots. He went everywhere on CATS and got a taxi to and from Weston to AG - rumour had it he was a very wealthy man.

One time I do remember was Wigan away at Springfield Park - the coaches used to drop fans off outside and then park inside the away end so you could just get back on without leaving the ground. All except Mick who went out of the gates and was wandering around for ages until someone found him and brought him back - the poor bugger had a really bad speech impediment and almost impossible to understand so no-one outside the ground had a clue what he wanted. Cue a massive round of applause when he got on the bus looking extremely sheepish!

[Miah Dennehy]

14 hours ago, Rich said:

Ah! ok, that's cleared that up then. Of course he was seventy at the time, though still employed as the groundsman.

I can't seem to find who the groundsman was that went from Twerton Park, to the rugby ground when they returned. 

Jackie Pitt was still groundsman at 70, I think he was about 75 when he retired.

[Miah Dennehy]

14 hours ago, Hello Dave said:

Im 57, I grew up with( and I hate the term) your main boys! That mid to late 80s period was a dark time for us , as far as Derby’s were concerned. Fortunately , we’ve gained the upper hand ever since, although we haven’t played you much. I can’t remember the original game being called off( although I obviously had a ticket), so I wouldn’t suggest there was anything untoward about it. I do remember being a little bit suspicious about the Stockport farce though. Do you miss the Derbys?  I think the modern day game is so sanitised that I would love a derby again, but they’re only good if you win!

I agree, I do remember eyebrows being raised about the Stockport postponement and it easy to see that it would definitely have been an advantage to Rovers to call it off, but I think the suspicions raised about the 1990 game are  a nonsense and can't see any reason whatsoever how Rovers would have knowingly gained an advantage by calling off the game in February.

I probably know the people you grew up with then!  I do miss the derbies now. I hated them at the time, I used to get so nervous in the weeks leading up to them, especially when we had that unbeaten run against you, in the back of my mind was always the thought that the run had to end at some time. When we won of course, it was the best feeling in the world (or even a last minute equaliser like Beadle's was great) There have been one or two occasions over the past decade or so when I was hoping we would draw you in the cup, simply on the grounds that we would seemingly have nothing to lose, but then dramatic losses in form like we have had this season remind me that we are probably best off avoiding you!

I am pleased that I got to see a derby win with my son (who is 23 this month) , he doesn't get to games now, but that father and son moment you get sometimes at football makes all the misery worth it!

[Rich]

10 hours ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Jackie Pitt was still groundsman at 70, I think he was about 75 when he retired.

I know, it's on the matchday programme. He carried on until the mid nineties, in some role, maybe in charge at the beeches. I'm pretty sure the groundsmen  Of Bath City and BRFC looked after the Twerton pitch. I remember seeing  the pitch for the first time and thinking, that's pretty rough around the perimeter. It had Type 1 aggregate (scalpings) coming out of the top surface grass around the touchline. Not something you want to encounter when hitting the ground after being attacked by that great clogger Ian Alexander. 

[Rich]

Sorry Miah, I can't let this go, you say:

"but I think the suspicions raised about the 1990 game are  a nonsense and can't see any reason whatsoever how Rovers would have knowingly gained an advantage by calling off the game in February".

You can't see any advantage to Rovers in calling the game off? 

We were flying at the time.

Your form at the time was poor.

You had a couple of injuries, can't recall who. 

Although you'd just signed two players to increase your squad, they were most probably not versed in your teams tactics.

Rovers recent form over 6 games from Boxing day. 4 home 2 away. Results= Won 1, drawn 3, lost 2.                                                                      1 win and 3 draws at home. Not exactly good home form.

City's recent form over six games from Boxing day. 3 home 3 away. Results= won 5 lost 1 

So, you could see no advantage to playing the game later (whenever), when there might be an improvement in form or loss in form for the opposition, better conditions, more pressure.

There was an obvious advantage in the postponement, as the subsequent events did seem to prove. You have your view of it and your club, who in your eyes wouldn't do such a thing.  Yet they did do that sort of thing and were warned by the FA about it, which you seem to accept could have happened. Makes one wonder who might have thought of getting a guarantee of a  game postponed, for an advantage. Was there a history before these events?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jims-frustration-987533

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/double-whammy-angers-gannon-985844

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/20826874 

A Stockport supporters view: https://stockport.vitalfootball.co.uk/rovers-are-a-disgrace/