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The difference a decent manager makes


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7 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

If you gave LJ Cristiano Ronaldo, I am not sure I would trust LJ to get the best out of him. LJ actually is the proof that it’s far more than just the players, it’s the person who is supposed to pick the team, chose the tactics etc, who can have the greatest overall effect, both positive and negative. The truth is that he’s not really a particularly good coach/manager. He’s not the worst, but he’s full of management speak, and believes he’s better than he actually is. He also never takes any responsibility for a poor performance: everything is perfect in preparation, it’s just the players that fail to perform. No wonder that’s the case if that’s what they always hear from the boss.

Probably have Ronaldo at left back or in goal...

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45 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

If you gave LJ Cristiano Ronaldo, I am not sure I would trust LJ to get the best out of him. LJ actually is the proof that it’s far more than just the players, it’s the person who is supposed to pick the team, chose the tactics etc, who can have the greatest overall effect, both positive and negative. The truth is that he’s not really a particularly good coach/manager. He’s not the worst, but he’s full of management speak, and believes he’s better than he actually is. He also never takes any responsibility for a poor performance: everything is perfect in preparation, it’s just the players that fail to perform. No wonder that’s the case if that’s what they always hear from the boss.

You’re really going to try and say Wolves’ transfers that season weren’t a massive factor in their promotion? As much as Nuno is a very good coach if you gave most managers in the league Jota, Neves, Boly, Douglas, Afobe, N’Diaye, Bennet, Ruddy, Mir etc then they’d more likely than likely all be challenging at the top, it was embarrassing the standard of player they were able to bring in that season thanks to Mendes.

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11 minutes ago, hodge said:

You’re really going to try and say Wolves’ transfers that season weren’t a massive factor in their promotion? As much as Nuno is a very good coach if you gave most managers in the league Jota, Neves, Boly, Douglas, Afobe, N’Diaye, Bennet, Ruddy, Mir etc then they’d more likely than likely all be challenging at the top, it was embarrassing the standard of player they were able to bring in that season thanks to Mendes.

They made a mockery of FFP in the process. Lost 50 million was it that season??? Joke really.

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

So in the time that LJ has “stabilised“ us in the Championship, likely missing out on the Playoffs for the 3rd season in a row, good managers like Nuno Espirito Santo and Chris Wilder have come in and not just taken 4 years to remain in the same league, but actually achieved something tangible. How else do you explain that Wolves are currently 6th in the Premier League and still in the Europa League, with Sheffield United are 7th in the Premier League, while we are 9th in the Championship and going backwards at increasing speed?

Hint to Steve Lansdown - If you want things to change, don’t keep doing the same thing and expecting something different to happen.
 

Wilder is a fantastic example. Nuno is a very good manager but as @hodge says the role of Mendes is quite important.

Bielsa- He has hugely improved a patchy side, they finished 15th 2 seasons ago IIRC and had no discernible style of play in double quick time to arguably the most formidable side in the division. Not yet gone up though but they are dominant in many ways, a far cry from this time 2 years ago. Some good players who were underachieving but some so so players who improved greatly.

12 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

They made a mockery of FFP in the process. Lost 50 million was it that season??? Joke really.

3 year rule, think after allowable costs- and remember too promotion bonuses don't count towards loss limits- think they were £2-3m under it n over 3 seasons. Made a healthy profit in 2015/16 which enabled the dice to be rolled and the boat to be pushed out.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Bielsa- He has hugely improved a patchy side, they finished 15th 2 seasons ago IIRC and had no discernible style of play in double quick time to arguably the most formidable side in the division.

 

A006F04F-5CBD-4CBA-96CB-895303E68B64.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Probably have Ronaldo at left back or in goal...

After Bentley's shocking displays since Fulham away, and I say that having been really impressed with him until then, I think Ronaldo would have done better!  Bentley seems to have an LJ trait which apparently dogged him last season at Brentford, of streaks of brilliance for weeks/months on end, followed by week/months of total incompetence, unable to function at a basic level of standard performance.  Ironically, I think that Blackburn/Millwall in December at home he suddenly got de-railed from being one of the best keepers in the league to a total mess of a GK whose confidence was shot for many games, which unfortunately carried on, and reached a critical low today.  The 1st thing that LJ must do is rest the lad for his own good, and get Nikki back, DB's howlers today affected the defence (and ultimately the whole team) in a game changing way.

He was obviously not the only poor performer, and I really want him to do well for us, but since December he has seemed incapable of the basic goalkeeping necessity of commanding his defence.

Edited by New Dazzler
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12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wilder is a fantastic example. Nuno is a very good manager but as @hodge says the role of Mendes is quite important.

Bielsa- He has hugely improved a patchy side, they finished 15th 2 seasons ago IIRC and had no discernible style of play in double quick time to arguably the most formidable side in the division. Not yet gone up though but they are dominant in many ways, a far cry from this time 2 years ago. Some good players who were underachieving but some so so players who improved greatly.

3 year rule, think after allowable costs- and remember too promotion bonuses don't count towards loss limits- think they were £2-3m under it n over 3 seasons. Made a healthy profit in 2015/16 which enabled the dice to be rolled and the boat to be pushed out.

If what they did was within the rules then that makes me feel worse as the EFL need to change the rules then. Losing 50m in one season shouldn’t be allowed full stop.

 

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29 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

If what they did was within the rules then that makes me feel worse as the EFL need to change the rules then. Losing 50m in one season shouldn’t be allowed full stop.

 

Villa say "Hold my beer" Lost £69m last season but excludable costs takes it down to £23m! 😃

I digress though, I have some sympathy with this point as it's far from sustainable and can risk a huge crash- as well as driving it up for everyone else. That said the clubs did vote on these things. Maybe not the Mendes bit but the loss limits, 3 years etc...football may need an independent external regulator?

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1 hour ago, hodge said:

You’re really going to try and say Wolves’ transfers that season weren’t a massive factor in their promotion? As much as Nuno is a very good coach if you gave most managers in the league Jota, Neves, Boly, Douglas, Afobe, N’Diaye, Bennet, Ruddy, Mir etc then they’d more likely than likely all be challenging at the top, it was embarrassing the standard of player they were able to bring in that season thanks to Mendes.

Don’t get hung up on wolves when the real comparison is sheff Utd,bypassed us in league terms while spending a pittance upto what Lee was given(playing exciting football as well by the way)

Edited by joe jordans teeth
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1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t get hung up on wolves when the real comparison is sheff Utd,bypassed us in league terms while spending a pittance upto what Lee was given(playing exciting football as well by the way)

Wilder's a bit of a genius really. Once in a generation manager? Maybe.

They were going nowhere, nowhere at all in League One when he took over! Well up around the playoffs but didn't really look like a club on the move.

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2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t get hung up on wolves when the real comparison is sheff Utd,bypassed us in league terms while spending a pittance upto what Lee was given(playing exciting football as well by the way)

I don’t think anyone is denying what Sheffield Utd did was incredible, they were the envy of 22 other teams in that league bar maybe Norwich for winning the league. The point was made that Wolves were promoted on the basis of simply having a better coach ‘how else do you explain...’ and I gave another reason why they got to the premier league in the first place.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wilder's a bit of a genius really. Once in a generation manager? Maybe.

They were going nowhere, nowhere at all in League One when he took over! Well up around the playoffs but didn't really look like a club on the move.

Is he a genius tho or maybe knows what players he wants to buy and gets them in rather than our scatter gun mentality and hope the shit sticks

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wilder's a bit of a genius really. Once in a generation manager? Maybe.

They were going nowhere, nowhere at all in League One when he took over! Well up around the playoffs but didn't really look like a club on the move.

Not only that, promoted Northampton from L2 > L1 as champions after narrowly avoinding relegation and Oxford Utd from National League to L2 before that.

The only question is where does he go from here? European football still a possibility but after that...? For some reason you just can't see one of the "big 6" taking him on, they prefer a busted flush big name like Mourinho or rookies like OGS or Arteta.

 

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7 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

If you gave LJ Cristiano Ronaldo, I am not sure I would trust LJ to get the best out of him. LJ actually is the proof that it’s far more than just the players, it’s the person who is supposed to pick the team, chose the tactics etc, who can have the greatest overall effect, both positive and negative. The truth is that he’s not really a particularly good coach/manager. He’s not the worst, but he’s full of management speak, and believes he’s better than he actually is. He also never takes any responsibility for a poor performance: everything is perfect in preparation, it’s just the players that fail to perform. No wonder that’s the case if that’s what they always hear from the boss.

I think he’s proven he’s actually a very good coach

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5 hours ago, hodge said:

I don’t think anyone is denying what Sheffield Utd did was incredible, they were the envy of 22 other teams in that league bar maybe Norwich for winning the league. The point was made that Wolves were promoted on the basis of simply having a better coach ‘how else do you explain...’ and I gave another reason why they got to the premier league in the first place.

So realistically, do you think that LJ would have won the league with that assistance? I would suggest not because he has  already been backed financially in a way many clubs and managers at this level have not, and he hasn’t achieved anything beyond “stabilising”. The 5 year plan is in year 4, and we aren’t that much further forward.

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8 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Took over when we looked certain to get relegated, last 3 season been fighting around the top 6. I would suggest we are lot further forward.

I agree, we are a lot further forward. However, I think we will go no further with LJ at the helm. We are at the business end of the season and only one won of the last seven. If we are to proceed any further a change of Head Coach is needed. We have the players, but need the leadership.

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8 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

If you gave LJ Cristiano Ronaldo, I am not sure I would trust LJ to get the best out of him. LJ actually is the proof that it’s far more than just the players, it’s the person who is supposed to pick the team, chose the tactics etc, who can have the greatest overall effect, both positive and negative. The truth is that he’s not really a particularly good coach/manager. He’s not the worst, but he’s full of management speak, and believes he’s better than he actually is. He also never takes any responsibility for a poor performance: everything is perfect in preparation, it’s just the players that fail to perform. No wonder that’s the case if that’s what they always hear from the boss.

 Out of likes but this post sums up the situation perfectly. 

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22 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

Ok i will bite. Give me a name of a manager who is realistic and who in your opinion would get us promoted within our means. 

This is a really good point. If I were to bite I would say “I don’t have to”.

The truth is I know very little about managers in football. It’s not my job to know.

I watch a lot of city though and can see how inept we have been for almost 3 years. I can see that this is in spite of the fact that the manager has continually brought in his players.

Something has to give, unless the machine is geared toward finishing somewhere between 9-12 and making a small profit based on player sales.If so, fine, rather they were just honest about it.

 

25 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Took over when we looked certain to get relegated, last 3 season been fighting around the top 6. I would suggest we are lot further forward.

We’ve had more than enough opportunity to move even farther forward. 
 

That’s nothing to be proud of.

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1 minute ago, 054123 said:

This is a really good point. If I were to bite I would say “I don’t have to”.

The truth is I know very little about managers in football. It’s not my job to know.

I watch a lot of city though and can see how inept we have been for almost 3 years. I can see that this is in spite of the fact that the manager has continually brought in his players.

Something has to give, unless the machine is geared toward finishing somewhere between 9-12 and making a small profit based on player sales.If so, fine, rather they were just honest about it.

 

Would love nothing more than city to get promoted but it really is no small achievement to consistantly finish mid-top mid table in the championship. I agree the football on show leaves an awful lot to be desired and some of the signings are questionable at best. When a player come apparently available and all the fan base think “just go get him”, i am fairly confident nearly all other supporters of all other teams think just the same. I love the club to a fault but we are not top of many lists of clubs you would join if you had the choice of most in the league for many reasons.

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7 hours ago, hodge said:

You’re really going to try and say Wolves’ transfers that season weren’t a massive factor in their promotion? As much as Nuno is a very good coach if you gave most managers in the league Jota, Neves, Boly, Douglas, Afobe, N’Diaye, Bennet, Ruddy, Mir etc then they’d more likely than likely all be challenging at the top, it was embarrassing the standard of player they were able to bring in that season thanks to Mendes.

Fair point.

But the head coach still has to work out the best tactics to suit a large change in personnel, motivate those players and have a Plan B to cope with injuries, suspensions and loss of form.

Nuno Spirito Santo has these qualities but our Head Coach resembles a rabbit in headlights.

 

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