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Attendance from October/Fans Return (Merged)


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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Agreed when certain segments of the population won’t social distance or wear a mask indoors, the chances of compliance for re-opening to larger numbers of spectators is pretty much nil while prevalence levels are this high.

unfortunately the bolded correction is more accurate I think. That isn't even a comment on whether such measures are a good thing or not, more that a high level of compliance will be needed for permission to start to return to be given

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Now this maybe outdated, this may have passed but it's worth a look certainly. Different country and absolutely less developed than here- but also smaller.

Nicuagura and Sporting Events. One of these listed was a Sports stadium. Assuming this was in May 2020 again maybe a bit dated.

https://confidencial.com.ni/how-masaya-nicaragua-became-a-covid-19-hot-spot/

image002-7.jpg

image003-3.jpg

From the article. ⬆️ Precious little social distancing?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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There has to be a realistic review of this, as there is a massive difference between Conference North and South and Man Utd. In a Country where 23 hours in Spoons is allowed, but a number of socially distanced fans in open air are not permitted, something

must be wrong. Europe seems to be managing it well, and protecting sporting clubs should be important. We seem to be falling for the Government BS blame shifting and trying to punish ourselves. Sorry, let’s have leadership, consistent messaging, taking it seriously, trying to balance the various needs, proper planning, not just making it up as they go along. Maybe even see what scientist say.

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19 hours ago, phantom said:

Peter Risdale was on Talksport this morning, he mentioned that PNE could finacially support the football team for this and next season under current restrictions.

Clearly not all clubs are in the same position

All Risdale had to do was cut back on the goldfish and not sign Seth Johnson.

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39 minutes ago, Chappers said:

There has to be a realistic review of this, as there is a massive difference between Conference North and South and Man Utd. In a Country where 23 hours in Spoons is allowed, but a number of socially distanced fans in open air are not permitted, something

must be wrong. Europe seems to be managing it well, and protecting sporting clubs should be important. We seem to be falling for the Government BS blame shifting and trying to punish ourselves. Sorry, let’s have leadership, consistent messaging, taking it seriously, trying to balance the various needs, proper planning, not just making it up as they go along. Maybe even see what scientist say.

It worked in Sweden as there is still a social contract that the Government is there for the people, which is what retains trust, and why they have done what was required. Pretty much the same in Germany. It’s not the case here because quite rightly many feel that Johnson & co don’t really give a stuff about them as long as they are alright, plus Cummings et al are allowed to “interpret the rules” however they see fit, but we have to follow them and get blamed for spreading the virus by breaking them. One thing that annoys people more than anything is hypocrisy, and this lot are full of it!

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28 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

I wonder if an unspoken reason is that police and paramedics will be needed to reopen all grounds but in 6 weeks time these same staff may be needed in hospitals etc ?

 

Possible, but why it needs looking at separately for each of the levels, to work out what CAN be done and what restrictions will need to apply.A lot of National League side will struggle to stage FA Cup games without fans, and I think the League is being suspended, as they just cannot afford to stage the games. 
If only football donated money to the Tory party, or Cummings was a fan... Solutions would soon be found.

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Trouble is I believe with people not following the rules Police are needed elsewhere to enforce these rules. I’m guessing Clubs at a certain level can’t play due to safety licences that need certain people groups there. As someone previously said maybe resources are needed elsewhere hospitals etc. 

Also before lockdown people were saying 3000 Madrid fans walking through Liverpool was madness for they may of spread Covid. 1000 fans walking through any town area uncontrolled is a big risk and maybe is why the Government think it’s not worth it.
 

But it does seem a bit double standards when endless clubs lower down leagues can have 300 fans in per game’. Here in Manchester my local said had a 300 limit they’ve been told to drop it to 150 and ticket only now no cash at turnstiles. 

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55 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

I wonder if an unspoken reason is that police and paramedics will be needed to reopen all grounds but in 6 weeks time these same staff may be needed in hospitals etc ?

 

I thought it might be more to do with the travelling to and from games, but we are all speculating because the government choose to just arbitrarily impose things without explanation. Their current thinking seems to be that the virus only operates between the hours of 10pm and 6am, presumably after watching the film Gremlins?  so that should have no effect on football at all!

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14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought it might be more to do with the travelling to and from games, but we are all speculating because the government choose to just arbitrarily impose things without explanation. Their current thinking seems to be that the virus only operates between the hours of 10pm and 6am, presumably after watching the film Gremlins?  so that should have no effect on football at all!

As if they told everyone to stay in all the time people would moan more, 

People seem to have no common sense in this country.

Its clear they obviously don’t think that. 

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44 minutes ago, Chappers said:

Possible, but why it needs looking at separately for each of the levels, to work out what CAN be done and what restrictions will need to apply.A lot of National League side will struggle to stage FA Cup games without fans, and I think the League is being suspended, as they just cannot afford to stage the games. 
If only football donated money to the Tory party, or Cummings was a fan... Solutions Exceptions would soon be found.

Fixed that for you

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3 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

As if they told everyone to stay in all the time people would moan more, 

People seem to have no common sense in this country.

Its clear they obviously don’t think that. 

But there is no logic to the timings, all they are likely to do is increase the number of people who will want to go out at other times, making social distancing more difficult.

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It’s ridiculous there has to be some way now to get a small % of people into stadiums. I’m sure clubs don’t care if it’s 500 people at this point, that’s 500 refunds they don’t have to give. 
Be as militant as you like about the rules, masks during games, 5 seats between people, allocated entry/exit points, but start drip feeding people in. 
If I can go to a pub, cinema, restaurant indoors with 2m distancing then football should be less of a risk. 

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3 hours ago, Chappers said:

There has to be a realistic review of this, as there is a massive difference between Conference North and South and Man Utd. In a Country where 23 hours in Spoons is allowed, but a number of socially distanced fans in open air are not permitted, something

must be wrong. Europe seems to be managing it well, and protecting sporting clubs should be important. We seem to be falling for the Government BS blame shifting and trying to punish ourselves. Sorry, let’s have leadership, consistent messaging, taking it seriously, trying to balance the various needs, proper planning, not just making it up as they go along. Maybe even see what scientist say.

What spoons is open 23 hours a day?
I still think your ignoring the very basic point of the message.

The message is "we're socialising too much and we need to tighten up". There are parts of the UK that aren't allowed to mix with other households indoors. We are no longer at the stage of "how can we open up safely" like when these trials started and fans started going in. We are at the stage of "we must slow down NOW to avoid a full restriction again".

You cannot send out that message by allowing crowds into sporting events, or music venues or anything else that hasn't already been opened up. I'm expecting "park" level football to be restricted next as I can't see how 30+ of us can play football all over the country tomorrow whilst adhering to the message because aside from the football it's everything that goes with it. The car sharing to get there and back and the heading into the pub for a drink after are two immediate things that spring to mind.

We can talk about other countries but as I pointed out earlier, France are backtracking on numbers in some places. We've also managed the whole virus differently to other countries. Places that have handled the whole situation better are in a better position than us to open up - as above, we aren't opening up right now we are closing down again.

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought it might be more to do with the travelling to and from games, but we are all speculating because the government choose to just arbitrarily impose things without explanation. Their current thinking seems to be that the virus only operates between the hours of 10pm and 6am, presumably after watching the film Gremlins?  so that should have no effect on football at all!

Only people being facetious or just simple think it only operates between hours of 10 and 6. I dont think there's any clear science about the time but its quite obvious to most that closing bars earlier will lead to some of the following:

- less people going out as some will deem it not worth it.
- less time available for people to drink upto 4 hours for some venus.
- the usual kick-out shenanigans that happen at 1/2am and cause Police issues will now happen earlier

It's not perfect but it's a time that allows people to still go out, and particularly have a meal, but without getting stupid(er) like people do in the early hours. Of course people will likely head back to houses instead of just going home, but something had to be done short of closing them completely.

52 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

But there is no logic to the timings, all they are likely to do is increase the number of people who will want to go out at other times, making social distancing more difficult.

As above, there's some logic to it even if it's far from perfect. Shouldnt make social distancing any more difficult because bars and restaurants wont allow any more people in than their limit

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14 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

What spoons is open 23 hours a day?
I still think your ignoring the very basic point of the message.

The message is "we're socialising too much and we need to tighten up". There are parts of the UK that aren't allowed to mix with other households indoors. We are no longer at the stage of "how can we open up safely" like when these trials started and fans started going in. We are at the stage of "we must slow down NOW to avoid a full restriction again".

You cannot send out that message by allowing crowds into sporting events, or music venues or anything else that hasn't already been opened up. I'm expecting "park" level football to be restricted next as I can't see how 30+ of us can play football all over the country tomorrow whilst adhering to the message because aside from the football it's everything that goes with it. The car sharing to get there and back and the heading into the pub for a drink after are two immediate things that spring to mind.

We can talk about other countries but as I pointed out earlier, France are backtracking on numbers in some places. We've also managed the whole virus differently to other countries. Places that have handled the whole situation better are in a better position than us to open up - as above, we aren't opening up right now we are closing down again.

Only people being facetious or just simple think it only operates between hours of 10 and 6. I dont think there's any clear science about the time but its quite obvious to most that closing bars earlier will lead to some of the following:

- less people going out as some will deem it not worth it.
- less time available for people to drink upto 4 hours for some venus.
- the usual kick-out shenanigans that happen at 1/2am and cause Police issues will now happen earlier

It's not perfect but it's a time that allows people to still go out, and particularly have a meal, but without getting stupid(er) like people do in the early hours. Of course people will likely head back to houses instead of just going home, but something had to be done short of closing them completely.

As above, there's some logic to it even if it's far from perfect. Shouldnt make social distancing any more difficult because bars and restaurants wont allow any more people in than their limit

Fair enough, things have to be tried. I downloaded the Track and trace app today, all the government have to do now is get the "test" part right that should have been running in February.

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2 hours ago, Dredd said:

It’s ridiculous there has to be some way now to get a small % of people into stadiums. I’m sure clubs don’t care if it’s 500 people at this point, that’s 500 refunds they don’t have to give. 
Be as militant as you like about the rules, masks during games, 5 seats between people, allocated entry/exit points, but start drip feeding people in. 
If I can go to a pub, cinema, restaurant indoors with 2m distancing then football should be less of a risk. 

Just been having a similar conversation on twitter DM.  Personally I think the rationale for one thing over another, e.g. pub over football ground is ridiculous, so if pubs are ok, why aren’t other businesses.  Don’t get me wrong I think there’s a pretty strong argument to lockdown down pubs etc too (apologies publicans on here).

But if pubs can open, where is the comparable safety assessment that can be applied to football stadia.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just been having a similar conversation on twitter DM.  Personally I think the rationale for one thing over another, e.g. pub over football ground is ridiculous, so if pubs are ok, why aren’t other businesses.  Don’t get me wrong I think there’s a pretty strong argument to lockdown down pubs etc too (apologies publicans on here).

But if pubs can open, where is the comparable safety assessment that can be applied to football stadia.

 

 

 

My primary thought on this is that pubs are already open, we aren't now allowing them to open instead of football grounds. They are now tightening up their practices, now isn't the time to open more things.

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3 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What spoons is open 23 hours a day?
I still think your ignoring the very basic point of the message.

The message is "we're socialising too much and we need to tighten up". There are parts of the UK that aren't allowed to mix with other households indoors. We are no longer at the stage of "how can we open up safely" like when these trials started and fans started going in. We are at the stage of "we must slow down NOW to avoid a full restriction again".

You cannot send out that message by allowing crowds into sporting events, or music venues or anything else that hasn't already been opened up. I'm expecting "park" level football to be restricted next as I can't see how 30+ of us can play football all over the country tomorrow whilst adhering to the message because aside from the football it's everything that goes with it. The car sharing to get there and back and the heading into the pub for a drink after are two immediate things that spring to mind.

We can talk about other countries but as I pointed out earlier, France are backtracking on numbers in some places. We've also managed the whole virus differently to other countries. Places that have handled the whole situation better are in a better position than us to open up - as above, we aren't opening up right now we are closing down again.

Only people being facetious or just simple think it only operates between hours of 10 and 6. I dont think there's any clear science about the time but its quite obvious to most that closing bars earlier will lead to some of the following:

- less people going out as some will deem it not worth it.
- less time available for people to drink upto 4 hours for some venus.
- the usual kick-out shenanigans that happen at 1/2am and cause Police issues will now happen earlier

It's not perfect but it's a time that allows people to still go out, and particularly have a meal, but without getting stupid(er) like people do in the early hours. Of course people will likely head back to houses instead of just going home, but something had to be done short of closing them completely.

As above, there's some logic to it even if it's far from perfect. Shouldnt make social distancing any more difficult because bars and restaurants wont allow any more people in than their limit

I can’t spell 13 and totally disagree with you. Goodbye

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4 hours ago, Dredd said:

It’s ridiculous there has to be some way now to get a small % of people into stadiums. I’m sure clubs don’t care if it’s 500 people at this point, that’s 500 refunds they don’t have to give. 
Be as militant as you like about the rules, masks during games, 5 seats between people, allocated entry/exit points, but start drip feeding people in. 
If I can go to a pub, cinema, restaurant indoors with 2m distancing then football should be less of a risk. 

Simple fact is that the virus is likely to be around for some time, so we have to work out a way to live with it, balancing risk and economy. The focus should be on what we CAN do safely. Science seems to suggest that risk of transmission outdoors is much lower, so let’s look at how it can be done safely. All very well to be risk averse, but mental well-being is important, and damage to mental health could do a lot more damage than the virus.

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13 hours ago, Chappers said:

Possible, but why it needs looking at separately for each of the levels, to work out what CAN be done and what restrictions will need to apply.A lot of National League side will struggle to stage FA Cup games without fans, and I think the League is being suspended, as they just cannot afford to stage the games. 
If only football donated money to the Tory party, or Cummings was a fan... Solutions would soon be found.

The clubs in the National League whose players are full time want to play, with or without crowds. The clubs whose players are part time don’t want to play without crowds, this, because their players only get paid when they play. 

The clubs had a meeting today, they are asking for government support money wise, if they get this, then the league will start on October 3rd. 

 

Edited by Portland Bill
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Surely something fairly basic is that on one hand you say to people that they have to have a rule of 6, various rules on households which could yet get tighter- with that how do you then turn around and say to the public- "That family stuff- ie in houses or even gardens- you can't do that, but football with 1,000 fans which could rise depending on cases, yeah that's okay!"

Pubs are almost certainly far less than 1,000 capacity, rule of 6, family gatherings- but 1,000 to football.

Said it the other day but happy to achieve medical correction on this, that this is likely to spread and rise more in a number of ways as it gets colder. Coughs and sneezes and all that- pubs have to track and trace, pubs e.g. have to have Table Service- would face masks be mandatory in view of the pitch, what about alcohol at football- Germany has banned it for example in their tentative restart.

Had doubts about football return as soon as cases started to rise notably. The mood music has changed significantly, the cautious optimism- talking in general of 2-3 weeks ago- seems to have been blown away.

How do you reconcile this to an anxious public:

A return to Sports with greater restrictions between households, rising cases and an abandonment of the 'Back to the office, buy a Pret and save our town Centres' drive. I suppose the pubs and hospitality is a counterweight to this but even this sees tightening albeit to 10pm at this stage. Opening up- this has been replaced by various tightening to try and halt the spread. 

Talking of Germany...

https://onlyhindinewstoday.com/bundesliga-fans-back-in-stadiums-but-tracking-coronavirus-stats/

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May as well ask @Dr Balls  this.

In your view, what would weekly cases need to fall to within the next few weeks/month or two for Test events to begin again- much side of anything this side of Christmas in your view- what might the magic figure be to resurrect Test events any time soon?

On a side note, I see Middlesbrough has now gone into some kind of local measures or enhanced support/monitoring- wonder if Test event v Bournemouth played a role.

The North East was already heading that way, yet a Test event with 1,000- I dunno.

Saw this on another forum and maybe...but maybe it's been superseded.

Quote

I work with the EFL on a few projects and the information they have shared with stakeholders today is that the pilot events are officially suspended for three weeks and will be reviewed towards the end of October. Of course, likelihood is that it will stay behind closed doors for considerably longer.

3-6 week review is more promising, maybe!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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This possibly is the craziest announcement so far? 

TAKEN FROM: https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/wealdstone-vs-chesterfield-live-screening

On Saturday we kick off our National League campaign as we host Chesterfield at The Vale. Unfortunately this match will be played behind closed doors due to Covid-19 restrictions however live streaming is available to purchase via our website https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/live-stream

We are also delighted to announce that Wealdstone Supporters Club are hosting a live screening of the game at Ruislip Social Club (@TheVale_SC) Numbers will be limited due to social distancing and tickets are available to purchase online priced at £10 (reduced to £5 for season ticket holders) which includes a free beer, cider, wine or soft drink.

All windows and viewing access to the pitch will be closed off and stewarding will be in place to ensure no access to the ground. We ask everyone attending wear a face mask on arrival and when leaving their table at any point during the afternoon. Social distancing must be adhered to and table service will apply for drinks.

The club will be open from 12 noon to show the day’s Premier League fixtures starting with Chelsea vs Crystal Palace at 12.30pm followed by Leeds vs Manchester City at 5.30pm.

Tickets are available online at

https://wealdstonefc.ktckts.com/merchandise/wldstreamchest/screening-v-chesterfield

Your support is appreciated and we look forward to at least welcoming a few supporters into the social club on Saturday.

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37 minutes ago, phantom said:

This possibly is the craziest announcement so far? 

TAKEN FROM: https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/wealdstone-vs-chesterfield-live-screening

On Saturday we kick off our National League campaign as we host Chesterfield at The Vale. Unfortunately this match will be played behind closed doors due to Covid-19 restrictions however live streaming is available to purchase via our website https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/live-stream

We are also delighted to announce that Wealdstone Supporters Club are hosting a live screening of the game at Ruislip Social Club (@TheVale_SC) Numbers will be limited due to social distancing and tickets are available to purchase online priced at £10 (reduced to £5 for season ticket holders) which includes a free beer, cider, wine or soft drink.

All windows and viewing access to the pitch will be closed off and stewarding will be in place to ensure no access to the ground. We ask everyone attending wear a face mask on arrival and when leaving their table at any point during the afternoon. Social distancing must be adhered to and table service will apply for drinks.

The club will be open from 12 noon to show the day’s Premier League fixtures starting with Chelsea vs Crystal Palace at 12.30pm followed by Leeds vs Manchester City at 5.30pm.

Tickets are available online at

https://wealdstonefc.ktckts.com/merchandise/wldstreamchest/screening-v-chesterfield

Your support is appreciated and we look forward to at least welcoming a few supporters into the social club on Saturday.

What's crazy about that ? No different to watching it in a pub. Surprised City haven't done it in the Sports Bar. Would certainly create a nice bit of revenue. As long as rules of social distancing are met i.e. table service, no more than 6 etc then it's all good. I'd certainly go.

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8 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

What's crazy about that ? No different to watching it in a pub. Surprised City haven't done it in the Sports Bar. Would certainly create a nice bit of revenue. As long as rules of social distancing are met i.e. table service, no more than 6 etc then it's all good. I'd certainly go.

Not allowed to broadcast EFL football in pubs at the mo’.

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6 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

What's crazy about that ? No different to watching it in a pub. Surprised City haven't done it in the Sports Bar. Would certainly create a nice bit of revenue. As long as rules of social distancing are met i.e. table service, no more than 6 etc then it's all good. I'd certainly go.

I think the crazy bit is the fact the game they'll be watching is happening only a few yards away behind the blacked-out windows.

 

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9 minutes ago, Laner said:

I think the crazy bit is the fact the game they'll be watching is happening only a few yards away behind the blacked-out windows.

 

I think it is highly likely the clubs involved here have done this specifically to highlight the stupidity of the current arrangement at a level where some teams don’t get crowds of 1000 anyway.

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2 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

What's crazy about that ? No different to watching it in a pub. Surprised City haven't done it in the Sports Bar. Would certainly create a nice bit of revenue. As long as rules of social distancing are met i.e. table service, no more than 6 etc then it's all good. I'd certainly go.

You really don't see the hypocrisy in this? 

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I think pubs and football are two separate events so it's hard to compare.

Pubs for one will have a lot less than 1k in them.

Secondly, it's not just the outdoors bit but the getting to and from the ground, significant queues outside with testing, will mask be mandatory in view of the pitch- so many loose ends.

I also wonder if Middlesbrough's Test event in the circs was the best idea given they were on the cusp and now they have gone into local measures- maybe it was irrelevant.

Pubs also SHOULD absolutely be enforcing masks at all times except tables, socially distanced tables, doors and maybe windows open for ventilation, table service etc etc- as well as track and trace. Would it all be so easy to enforce at football?

So many variables I'm unsure a flat comparison can be made- chances are people would not be using public transport or in the same numbers to get to pubs.

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