Dean Holden (Merged)

[Northern Red]

13 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Wonder what LJ makes of all this... 

 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

And we would all happily come back and apologise 

not gonna happen though is it 

All very well, but what about the season ticket's that haven't been bought, and the merchandise that's been boycotted, none of which will have helped the club in the meantime.

Just think some people need to get a bit of perspective.

[citywest30]

14 minutes ago, italian dave said:

OK then, the best choice they've got. Clearly someone like Klopp would be the best choice, but (and again only the Board know this) the Board can only make a choice from who's available - and I just don't accept the suggestion that they would deliberately do other then make what they thought was the best choice.

Thats the point tho. I think they have made a massive balls up of it. They thought they could get x or y so rejected a number of applicants. They can't now go back and say actually sorry we were wrong so Holden is the only option left out of the shortlist. That's how I see it anyway.

[Davo370]

Seems like a few more are shifting to Holden being the pragmatic choice re covid etc. Why was Lee sacked for not taking the club forward then? Covid was still about . A complete u turn shows me that the board have no foresight or ability to plan. All the problems were clear when Lee was sacked. Why bother even interviewing anyone else. Just bring in another puppet straight away. Re Holden, if I was about to be offered a job managing City I would not have arranged a holiday. Shows lack of commitment imo.

[JoeAman08]

36 minutes ago, Chappers said:

It won’t turn ugly, by the time normality returns he will either have done well, or will have been replaced. Next season, if fans return, about 8,000 seats, no problem filling with existing SC holders, so a a few have a hissy fit and go, no problem.

Its like some religious cult on here, heresy to suggest that it might be a pragmatic appointment, that it might be a good move, and that external factors are probably playing a huge part in this. 
As for his 5 games, he did OK. Any manager would struggle given a midfield with zero energy or bite that was easy to walk through.

 

Again most wouldn’t care if we are being pragmatic. Just don’t say your experienced manager didn’t reach the objective of playoffs so we sacked him. Then say we want to take that next step and be a playoff type side. Then do a 180 and appoint someone with no experience at all. That is where the issue arises. The owner laid out the expectations and has seemingly reneged on his words.
 

Everyone understands the situation with covid and attendances. Everyone is on a level playing field here. Didn’t stop Birmingham City getting an expensive manager in Karanka. 
 

Most understand someone like Hughton may not be a great fit for the club. Most understand MA has a lot of power. Most understand there are plenty of more experienced coaches across Europe who would work under MA and JL. So what baffles people is why DH is being so heavily considered. There are cheaper options than Hughton but also more experienced than Holden. 

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

How about people give him a chance before putting him down as the wrong choice..? 

Don’t see why people are pissed off do you. It’s about lansdown raising expectations and basically lying about the person he wants to bring in. It’s not about holder per say . It’s about bullshitter Lansdown 

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, HomerRed said:

I doubt that the players know, because once that happens it gets out at some point. 

The players know Holden and appear to like him. 

A new man means it all starts again with all their places in doubt again. Just my take. 

Pros and cons. 

[Matty Taylors a Red]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

All very well, but what about the season ticket's that haven't been bought, and the merchandise that's been boycotted, none of which will have helped the club in the meantime.

Just think some people need to get a bit of perspective.

I’d like to agree, reducing the clubs income is just cutting off your nose to spite your face, but what’s the alternative?

Fans need a way to make their voices heard. If the club go through with the appointment then they clearly don’t care what’s said online, and we can’t vote with our feet due to covid. Denting their pockets may be the only way we get them to listen.

I certainly don’t think we should just sit down, shut up and let Lansdown/Ashton do what they want with the club with no blacklash.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

People said LJ was unqualified, and if that was true, what on earth does it make Holden?

A mate of LJ’s. 

[Robin101]

I get that we're all a bit disappointed where this is going but, man alive, anybody would think Lansdown has burnt a million in front of our faces, sold the ground, and changed our name to Red Bull Bristol or something. 

Let's get some perspective. We might be about to appoint our assistant manager, probably on a short-term contract, in the midst of a global pandemic and widespread uncertainty. Some people won't have a football club to support this time next year. We appear to be acting like spoilt brats.

Here's one thing for certain though - the club desperately need a new Head of Communications.

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Didn’t stop Birmingham City getting an expensive manager in Karanka

Let’s see where they are in twelve months time before we use them as an example. 

[Kingswood Robin]

Good to see Holdens approval rating has gone up to 5.31%............ I thought we were about to drop a clanger!

[Cov 77]

35 minutes ago, Street red said:

Exactly!!  And not just that the turnover that Hughton would bring would be massive it's a no brainer.. The clubs making the same mistake yet again!!

Two days on from the meltdown , still feel exactly the same, very angry at where we are after 5 weeks , the assistant to the failure going to come in on the cheap, and taken so long, massive wasted opportunity this was our moment to push on with everything in place to do so , but the control freaks who are in positions of power only want a yes man not a strong person who may argue but has a great chance of getting us to the promised land , how could Hughton imagine he’s knows more about a midfielder player than Ashton , did you know he worked at Oxford!

Having been a fan for many more years than I can remember , season ticket holder for 20 years or more I really have had enough ,  for COVID reasons I did not get a ticket in the arm twisting period. , thank god for that as I cannot face giving money to these faceless tossers.  
 

I have nothing against Dean on a personal basis but this is the last straw .

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

I get that we're all a bit disappointed where this is going but, man alive, anybody would think Lansdown has burnt a million in front of our faces, sold the ground, and changed our name to Red Bull Bristol or something. 

Let's get some perspective. We might be about to appoint our assistant manager, probably on a short-term contract, in the midst of a global pandemic and widespread uncertainty. Some people won't have a football club to support this time next year. We appear to be acting like spoilt brats.

Here's one thing for certain though - the club desperately need a new Head of Communications.

Or at least one that is allowed to do the job.

All this absolute total secrecy is way over the top imo.

 

[havanatopia]

Jon? Where is that statement? A single liner will do. Jeez a couple of words even? Jon?

[Philly The Kid]

I'm always wary of the "and the players like him" reasoning. Players get comfortable and will take advantage. That's when you find out whether he's got the authority to grip them and motivate them do do better. Coaches are often (too) close to players and when they get promoted to what is effectively a managers role some players find it hard to suddenly take a bollocking from someone who weeks before was putting his arm around their shoulders. It's a completely different ball game going from coach to manager/head coach requiring a completely different approach. If a Hughton walked through the door players don't know what they're getting and will try harder. His record demands immediate respect, whereas i'm not sure if we signed a player(s) who had played at a higher level they would necessarily respect or respond to someone like DH who hasn't been there and done it. Fine when it's going well but in a poor run (and we've had a few of those) i'm not sure Dean would command the respect or authority to get players to raise their game.

[YGBjammy]

Remember when LJ said in an interview "he could write a book about the things that happened this season" a while back?

Maybe that makes more sense now, our club is weirder than we thought.

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Phillythe kid said:

I'm always wary of the "and the players like him" reasoning. Players get comfortable and will take advantage. That's when you find out whether he's got the authority to grip them and motivate them do do better. Coaches are often (too) close to players and when they get promoted to what is effectively a managers role some players find it hard to suddenly take a bollocking from someone who weeks before was putting his arm around their shoulders. It's a completely different ball game going from coach to manager/head coach requiring a completely different approach. If a Hughton walked through the door players don't know what they're getting and will try harder. His record demands immediate respect, whereas i'm not sure if we signed a player(s) who had played at a higher level they would necessarily respect or respond to someone like DH who hasn't been there and done it. Fine when it's going well but in a poor run (and we've had a few of those) i'm not sure Dean would command the respect or authority to get players to raise their game.

I am sure that Dean Holden is a good coach and quite capable of handing out bollockings when they’re merited, after all it’s his job on the line if the players screw up.

You have touched on one of my concerns, it would be easier to attract the type of player corresponding to our stated desire to get into the Prem if we had a coach on board who can back up his ideas with proof that they work. A sort of ‘ show us your medals ‘ mentality is prominent in competitive sports. 
 

So gaffer?  ... 

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

I get that we're all a bit disappointed where this is going but, man alive, anybody would think Lansdown has burnt a million in front of our faces, sold the ground, and changed our name to Red Bull Bristol or something. 

Let's get some perspective. We might be about to appoint our assistant manager, probably on a short-term contract, in the midst of a global pandemic and widespread uncertainty. Some people won't have a football club to support this time next year. We appear to be acting like spoilt brats.

Here's one thing for certain though - the club desperately need a new Head of Communications.

If that was a big factor for the club, Gerrard and Hughton wouldn't even have been entertained. The club has invalidated that as an excuse entirely by pursuing expensive primary targets. It's an incredibly convenient excuse, but I don't think it's a particularly big factor in this appointment. 

[Robin101]

13 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Or at least one that is allowed to do the job.

All this absolute total secrecy is way over the top imo.

 

It's bizarre and very damaging. Clearly no one needs to know, for instance, that Hughton was interviewed and we didn't like his answer to the question about academy development. But how hard would it be to do an update saying that interviews are underway, or put out a little piece about what we're looking for in a new manager? Fans appreciate being kept slightly in the loop. Just look at the reactions here about it being 'our club'.

[Robin101]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If that was a big factor for the club, Gerrard and Hughton wouldn't even have been entertained. The club has invalidated that as an excuse entirely by pursuing expensive primary targets. It's an incredibly convenient excuse, but I don't think it's a particularly big factor in this appointment. 

I think this has been a mess from the off, don't get me wrong. But, in fairness, 5 weeks ago things were moving on nicely with regards to COVID and I think the expectation would have been that fans would be back in the stadiums not long after the new season starts. That now looks very unlikely to happen. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Robin101 said:

It's bizarre and very damaging. Clearly no one needs to know, for instance, that Hughton was interviewed and we didn't like his answer to the question about academy development. But how hard would it be to do an update saying that interviews are underway, or put out a little piece about what we're looking for in a new manager? Fans appreciate being kept slightly in the loop. Just look at the reactions here about it being 'our club'.

Yep agreed. If the club are at all in tune with the mood music on here and other sites, I think it would be sensible to give an update.

I wouldn't usually advocate it, as fans don't need to know anything and it could give our rivals a competitive advantage. I think it's reached fever pitch with these Holden rumours, and the club need to act somehow.

I'm not entirely sure how that should happen, perhaps a short video interview with JL (reason being he's not Ashton who's taking the brunt of blame in this speculation), where he gives a broad update whilst not necessarily naming anyone or releasing any confidential info.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Robin101 said:

I think this has been a mess from the off, don't get me wrong. But, in fairness, 5 weeks ago things were moving on nicely with regards to COVID and I think the expectation would have been that fans would be back in the stadiums not long after the new season starts. That now looks very unlikely to happen. 

It sounds like we're still talking to Hughton and as of a fortnight ago (if you believe the press) were still sounding out Gerrard. I really don't think it's that big of a factor - just quite a convenient excuse that the club will be happy for the press to run with. 

Obviously we don't know for a fact either way, but that's just my view. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think it's reached fever pitch with these Holden rumours, and the club need to act somehow.

I'm not entirely sure how that should happen

Quash them!

[JoeAman08]

29 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Let’s see where they are in twelve months time before we use them as an example. 

My only point was they felt they could spend on a proven manager in these times and I am certain they aren’t as well off in terms of FFP as we are. As for that working out I have doubts

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Quash them!

Would be nice, sadly I think it's probably going to be him so that won't happen 

I also predict a big patronising social media campaign of 'Get Behind Deano' if he's appointed, trying to make people dissenters or sceptics look bad for 'not supporting' a good man.

[Philly The Kid]

15 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I am sure that Dean Holden is a good coach and quite capable of handing out bollockings when they’re merited, after all it’s his job on the line if the players screw up.

You have touched on one of my concerns, it would be easier to attract the type of player corresponding to our stated desire to get into the Prem if we had a coach on board who can back up his ideas with proof that they work. A sort of ‘ show us your medals ‘ mentality is prominent in competitive sports. 
 

So gaffer?  ... 

Point taken. I'm not convinced an experienced old head would take much notice. Mavericks like Jackie, JET and Tomlin certainly wouldn't. In fact, the issues between Tomlin and LJ highlight exactly what I'm talking about!!

 

[Street red]

3 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I would’ve thought it more prudent to employ the experienced person over the novice in times of crisis? I would have thought he was better placed to deal with all aspects of running the team without relying on player trading. Surely CH isn’t that arrogant to demand the same financial backing in the midst of a global pandemic as before? 
 

No he wouldn't he would manage to the current climate and most definitely experience will be needed to get us through this.. 

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, HomerRed said:

I doubt that the players know, because once that happens it gets out at some point. 

The players know Holden and appear to like him. 

A new man means it all starts again with all their places in doubt again. Just my take. 

Of course they like him....he is part of their comfy little life at BCFC

[italian dave]

48 minutes ago, citywest30 said:

Thats the point tho. I think they have made a massive balls up of it. They thought they could get x or y so rejected a number of applicants. They can't now go back and say actually sorry we were wrong so Holden is the only option left out of the shortlist. That's how I see it anyway.

You might be right. Or applicants might have rejected us. It might have been a miscalculation (balls up!). It might have been applicants not happy with the structure/Ashton/Lansdown's involvement. I guess that we'll never know. 

All I'm saying is that

a) the Lansdowns are here to stay and whatever the rights and wrongs of how they run the club and the relationship with the manager, it is what it is. And to be honest I'd rather end up with a manager who gets on with the Board than one who doesn't. The latter will only end one way, and that's not a good way for either him or the club.

b) however, and whoever we've got where we are, I just don't accept that's because anyone at Board level has done something they deliberately think isn't the best thing for the club. That was where my comment started (someone implying otherwise). 

I've supported City through more Chairmen and Managers than I can remember; I haven't liked them all, I haven't agreed with everything they've done, but with two exceptions I have always believed that they do what they do with the club's best interests at heart. (The two were Pulis - who's primary interest was money - and Osman - who's primary interest was Russel Osman. IMHO!)