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Mark Ashton - Opinions


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2 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

The idea of us having a head coach model is so flawed at the moment. If you have a head coach then you have a longer term Director of Football to oversee transfers and managerial comings and goings. Instead we have a CEO who is a businessman, not a scout or anything like that. It just doesn't add up and screams to me of Ashton (and probably the board) being very unhappy to relinquish control.

Exactly.

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3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I am not suggesting anything. But what if the price tag for some of the other contenders was huge and would get in the way of player purchases?  We don't even know if we can have fans in the Gat next year.  The thinking may just have developed that we have some outstanding young players and if we could bring them on to the extent that we had a real chance next season, when we may be able to supplement the squad from trading. I have no more idea than any of the other guesswork on this forum - but my postings are normally quite positive and not loaded with the hatred and resentment shown by some of our colleagues .

Just read a lot of your posts in the last few hours and I agree with many of the points you make.  Doesn’t make you (us) right or wrong, just probably looking at it from slightly different angles to there’s. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Holds no water except that someone may have said, " wait a minute, instead of paying all that cash for a manager, we could keep Dean and buy a player who could make a real difference to our young squad".   That might be a possibility.

I said in a post yesterday, ultimately it’s about the players not the manager.  Obviously no idea of the budgetary constraints that are going to be in place, but perhaps it does give him a tad more scope in the window.

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Your opinion.  He may well be an excellent coach and ready for a step up.  This may be a very big step up, but the board may think he is worthy of the opportunity. Maybe they know the situation better than you do?  Who knows?

....and I hope they support him with the right staff.  We all moan about (perceived) interference of MA in incoming players....but what if Brian Tinnion was given a more prominent role in recruitment to smooth that concern.  What if Williams was offered a coaching role (whilst still registering as a player), etc.  You start to build an appointment that looks a bit better than simply appointing Holden.  That’s my hope if he is announced.  I want to see that sone real thought has gone into it.

2 hours ago, Med/MadHatter said:

3 wins and 7 losses in 15 games, numbers that are bang on target for a relegation season

Or 5 games at his current club gaining 8 points, which is 73 points and would’ve got playoffs.  Your example is less relevant than mine...but both a bit irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 😂

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just read a lot of your posts in the last few hours and I agree with many of the points you make.  Doesn’t make you (us) right or wrong, just probably looking at it from slightly different angles to there’s. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

I said in a post yesterday, ultimately it’s about the players not the manager.  Obviously no idea of the budgetary constraints that are going to be in place, but perhaps it does give him a tad more scope in the window.

....and I hope they support him with the right staff.  We all moan about (perceived) interference of MA in incoming players....but what if Brian Tinnion was given a more prominent role in recruitment to smooth that concern.  What if Williams was offered a coaching role (whilst still registering as a player), etc.  You start to build an appointment that looks a bit better than simply appointing Holden.  That’s my hope if he is announced.  I want to see that sone real thought has gone into it.

Or 5 games at his current club gaining 8 points, which is 73 points and would’ve got playoffs.  Your example is less relevant than mine...but both a bit irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 😂

And the "football" was still dire apart from Boro, quite frankly 73 points would be a bloody miracle

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An appointment of Holden would spark the end for, not only Mark Ashton, but the Lansdown family. It would truly feel, to me, that the was the start of the reversal of everything that the past 6 years has been based upon. 

If I was one of the big names in the squad I'd be looking to leave ASAP is Holden is appointed and fans turn, which would be an inevitably. 

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2 hours ago, James54De said:

If I was one of the big names in the squad I'd be looking to leave ASAP is Holden is appointed and fans turn, which would be an inevitably. 

Not so sure about the players, this is the great paradox about how the club is run by SL & MA. In their model the playing squad is well invested and so if anything the players are empowered in the absence of a manager.

Appointing Holden is not a financial imperative just like it wasn't with LJ, even if that's what they want you to think - the proof will again be in all the signings they surround the inexperienced coach with to make this work.

So players carry extra importance because owner and CEO make decisions about them and throw more money at them than their own day to day 'manager'. And when fans turn, Holden is setup to be the fall guy, not them.

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Did we fire LJ to save money ? Sorry this is complete nonsense suggesting that due to hardship we cannot afford anyone to run our team . 5 weeks ago I did not hear the financial argument  when it was clear then that we were facing a tough year ahead. Why did we go through a charade of advertising the fact we were searching for someone to take us to the next level . Then appoint someone who was part of the problem in the first place . Well firing Ashton wound free up some money and would sort out the other part of the problem at the club . 

so after an extend and extensive recruitment, with apparently global interest we decide on Holden .

you could not make up such idiotic behaviour . It has zero to do with money and everything to do with. Ashton wanting to control the club , with the Lansdown family pressing various buttons when they please .

As for the improvement under Holden , well we had nothing to play for , and in the last games , whilst there was semblances of shape , we were still pretty average . Maybe coming from such a disastrous poor level has clouded judgement .

This is a nonsense , total nonsense , and asks huge questions about Ashton , who should have been fired with LJ , and the blind spot SL has for running the football club. 
 

LJ was part of the problem but it seems no one at the club has even the remotest idea on what the solutions are . No wonder we remain a constant disappointment.  That looks to continue. Just when we needed lifting and getting the supporters united and with the club and team , BCFC manage to do the opposite.

 

 

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I’d like to know peoples opinion on this, as we know they say at the end of the season they analyze what was good and what went wrong through the season, well for the past two years I think the. Recruitment team failed and needs a serious look at, we had a good style of play a couple of seasons ago and yes I know we lost some players but surely u recruit to fit a system that’s what brentford Sheffield utd etc do, well any successful team does yet for us every year since we have seen our style change anyways like I said I’d like to know if people share my view or not

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If we appoint DH , which is looking likely now, then serious questions need to be asked about the club.

We have had mixed messages ;

‘ prepare for a season of austerity ‘ - Mark Ashton 

followed by SL saying we need a coach to take us to the next level . 
 

Which are we to believe?

Putting aside the pros and cons of DH and the reduced pandemic revenue, the club have singlehandedly alienated vast numbers of their fans in a communication disaster. 

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4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

If we appoint DH , which is looking likely now, then serious questions need to be asked about the club.

We have had mixed messages ;

‘ prepare for a season of austerity ‘ - Mark Ashton 

followed by SL saying we need a coach to take us to the next level . 
 

Which are we to believe?

Putting aside the pros and cons of DH and the reduced pandemic revenue, the club have singlehandedly alienated vast numbers of their fans in a communication disaster. 

Are the 2 things not both possible?

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1 minute ago, NlGHTMARE said:

That’s the most important this pick a style of play stick with it, and recruit to that end. Simple really but not many clubs seem to bother. 

Well successful teams do and I thought that was part of us having a so called top notch recruitment team

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1 minute ago, NlGHTMARE said:

That’s the most important this pick a style of play stick with it, and recruit to that end. Simple really but not many clubs seem to bother. 

Which is fine if the right players are available at the right price...

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9 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

What if....just what if...the board really thought that Dean Holden was the best man for the job in current circumstances? Maybe his brief is t really bed in the young players this season when the transfer budget may be very low and there is not even the guarantee of decent income through the gate.  Maybe, just maybe someone on high is playing a longer game.

Why not take the punt on Ryan Lowe who has won 2 promotions using youth and loans playing attacking football. He would of been cheaper than Dean? 
Use the Covid issue by all means but if that was the case they should of done it in week one not four or five. 

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4 hours ago, James54De said:

An appointment of Holden would spark the end for, not only Mark Ashton, but the Lansdown family. It would truly feel, to me, that the was the start of the reversal of everything that the past 6 years has been based upon. 

If I was one of the big names in the squad I'd be looking to leave ASAP is Holden is appointed and fans turn, which would be an inevitably. 

Leave ?and go where ? Very few transfers will take place until Covid financial situation eases for most clubs. I sense this coming season will be extremely difficult for everyone. All clubs will need to make sacrifices/cost cuts to survive and keep within FFP. 

 

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Sky were  discussing the Brentford recruitment model the other day. Apparently they look around Europe for teams who are over-performing and then identify individuals within those teams who are doing well, and target them. I’m not sure how Watkins or Canos fit into that theory though. Seems to me they follow a similar model to ours but are prepared to invest more in individuals and less overall and don’t recruit players they won’t use in their first team squad. Sounds so simple.

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If we need to save money in these trying times, then let’s start by getting rid of Mark Ashton. Let’s get back to basics. The Owner gives the manager a budget for the season and then it’s up to a decent manager to get players in that he wants and hopefully can attract. Let’s be honest, do you think that players come to Ashton Gate because of MA, of course not!

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17 minutes ago, Paulton Red said:

Are the 2 things not both possible?

Possible but hardly coherent. If you are a racing team with the fastest car you’re going to want the best driver in it , aren’t you ? 
 

Do you think the club have handled the situation well ? 
 

 

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36 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

Sky were  discussing the Brentford recruitment model the other day. Apparently they look around Europe for teams who are over-performing and then identify individuals within those teams who are doing well, and target them. I’m not sure how Watkins or Canos fit into that theory though. Seems to me they follow a similar model to ours but are prepared to invest more in individuals and less overall and don’t recruit players they won’t use in their first team squad. Sounds so simple.

Yes we’ve recruited a lot of players that haven’t made an impact on the first team

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I thought midfield recruitment  was either particularly poor last season or decent players had their natural ability stifled by LJ's set-up / on the pitch instructions.  It didn't seem balanced or a success.

Brentford is the model to follow and investment in a successful recruitment system and personnel pays off financially with results and results.   I  think fans need some clarification on how City operate and, particularly, Mark Ashton's role.  His role needs to be limited to negotiation rather than identification. There are far better better qualified people to do the latter.

Following the Brentford model also needs a coach who follows a style of play that is in tune with recruitment.  That didn't happen under LJ.

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2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Well firing Ashton wound free up some money and would sort out the other part of the problem at the club . 

And would clear the air immediately,,blowing through the cloying,poisonous miasma...

Though as @oldstandrobin eloquently says,,you'll need a crow bar to get him out!

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1 hour ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Why not take the punt on Ryan Lowe who has won 2 promotions using youth and loans playing attacking football. He would of been cheaper than Dean? 
Use the Covid issue by all means but if that was the case they should of done it in week one not four or five. 

Maybe a case of the devil you know and you all seem to be overlooking the fact that the board may think that Dean Holden is a great candidate.  Everyone is judged on the success of the enterprise, so they must think him worth a shot.

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10 hours ago, chinapig said:

A pretty good rule of thumb when recruiting is to assign 60% to the person's achievements and 40% to how well they interview.

As Dean has no achievements as a Head Coach it's pretty hard to see how he could score higher than other candidates.

So you would have no faith in the experienced, smart people who own and run the football club, who have had the opportunity so see Dean Holden develop and work over a four year period.  Are you totally convinced that you and the others on this forum know more??  I am just speculating, and I believe that the same is true for other commentators.  We simply do not know!

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Ashton has form when it comes to upsetting the fans - this was from Watford forum in 2009:

Chris the Vic 23rd October 2009 9:47 am Well if I never get anything else right, this was the exception. I attacked him openly a year plus before he went over the inept way he ran the club, bad negotiation of contracts, inept spin and generally poor decision making and boy did many of our present contributors give me stick and with two exceptions never had the good grace to apologise. If this article is confirmed it is awesome. This man more than any other damaged our club so badly we will be picking up the pieces for several years to come.

Whole article in Watford Observer makes for interesting reading. In short he sued them for breach of contract and then withdrew his claim even paying part of their costs. Make of that what you will! I wonder what due diligence SL did when appointing him as CEO:

https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/4698518.former-ceo-mark-ashton-withdraws-300000-claim-against-watford-and-will-pay-part-of-the-clubs-costs/

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39 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Maybe a case of the devil you know and you all seem to be overlooking the fact that the board may think that Dean Holden is a great candidate.  Everyone is judged on the success of the enterprise, so they must think him worth a shot.

That may well be true. But if so why not do it in week one. They replaced Coppell within 24 hours with Millen. 
 

This is the bit I’m struggling with is the time taken for the appointment. If they felt he was the right man for the job what’s changed since the sacking of LJ. We had one good game against Boro who we do well against since they moved to the riverside. A nervy 2-1 finish against Hull and some draws.
 

Nothing to me has indicated that something has changed in the past 5 weeks. I know the club haven’t officially said anything regarding who has been interviewed. But they have said they were impressed with the candidates applying and saying we want to push on. So indicating that they will look to do that, not say we can do that with what we’ve got already. 
 

I know I’m coming across as needy, but at the end of the day I donate part of my salary in ST, I along with others said you keep the remainder of last years ST and already paid for this years with knowing the chances of going are slim. So surely if we are prepared to do this then the club should at least treat us respectfully and not spin or lead us into false dawns. 
 

No manager guarantees promotion, but some give you the better chance. And to me Dean might turn out good but I struggle to see it or understand what has changed in the past month. 

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2 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

That may well be true. But if so why not do it in week one. They replaced Coppell within 24 hours with Millen. 
 

This is the bit I’m struggling with is the time taken for the appointment. If they felt he was the right man for the job what’s changed since the sacking of LJ. We had one good game against Boro who we do well against since they moved to the riverside. A nervy 2-1 finish against Hull and some draws.
 

Nothing to me has indicated that something has changed in the past 5 weeks. I know the club haven’t officially said anything regarding who has been interviewed. But they have said they were impressed with the candidates applying and saying we want to push on. So indicating that they will look to do that, not say we can do that with what we’ve got already. 
 

I know I’m coming across as needy, but at the end of the day I donate part of my salary in ST, I along with others said you keep the remainder of last years ST and already paid for this years with knowing the chances of going are slim. So surely if we are prepared to do this then the club should at least treat us respectfully and not spin or lead us into false dawns. 
 

No manager guarantees promotion, but some give you the better chance. And to me Dean might turn out good but I struggle to see it and understand what has changed in the past month. 

We are in the same boat regarding season tickets.  We clearly love our football club and wish to see it flourish and prosper.  

None of us can know what is said and debated in the boardroom. The discussions may have morphed over the weeks since LJ departed and there may be an issue with financial backing.  If you consider that SL has many businesses that all depend on people working serving customers or fans, and his income from these businesses has suddenly been strangled but the expenses still have to be paid. Aside from the excellent help from the government, SL is looking at a very uncertain few (or many) months ahead. If he sold investments to bolster his businesses than he would do so when share prices are way down and he would be turning paper losses into actual losses and this would impact his future wealth and income - and his future ability to nurture his businesses.  Maybe he has decided that it is time to pull in the horns and preserve wealth for the season after next and that Dean Holden is a viable holding candidate.  But we just do not know.  Blaming everyone is not helpful because they are all trying to do their best in the circumstances.

Maybe they would have been better served by keeping Lee Johnson in place?

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1 hour ago, bcfcnick said:

I thought midfield recruitment  was either particularly poor last season or decent players had their natural ability stifled by LJ's set-up / on the pitch instructions.  It didn't seem balanced or a success.

Brentford is the model to follow and investment in a successful recruitment system and personnel pays off financially with results and results.   I  think fans need some clarification on how City operate and, particularly, Mark Ashton's role.  His role needs to be limited to negotiation rather than identification. There are far better better qualified people to do the latter.

Following the Brentford model also needs a coach who follows a style of play that is in tune with recruitment.  That didn't happen under LJ.

Spot on.

Ashton’s role absolutely needs to be questioned, as does his performance in signing loads of mediocre squad fillers who clog up our wage bill.

Won’t be though.

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1 hour ago, bcfcnick said:

I thought midfield recruitment  was either particularly poor last season or decent players had their natural ability stifled by LJ's set-up / on the pitch instructions.  It didn't seem balanced or a success.

Brentford is the model to follow and investment in a successful recruitment system and personnel pays off financially with results and results.   I  think fans need some clarification on how City operate and, particularly, Mark Ashton's role.  His role needs to be limited to negotiation rather than identification. There are far better better qualified people to do the latter.

Following the Brentford model also needs a coach who follows a style of play that is in tune with recruitment.  That didn't happen under LJ.

Totally agree he seems to have far too much input into who we sign for my liking 

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2 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

I thought midfield recruitment  was either particularly poor last season or decent players had their natural ability stifled by LJ's set-up / on the pitch instructions.  It didn't seem balanced or a success.

Brentford is the model to follow and investment in a successful recruitment system and personnel pays off financially with results and results.   I  think fans need some clarification on how City operate and, particularly, Mark Ashton's role.  His role needs to be limited to negotiation rather than identification. There are far better better qualified people to do the latter.

Following the Brentford model also needs a coach who follows a style of play that is in tune with recruitment.  That didn't happen under LJ.

Coronavirus may cause their model big issues.  They rely on selling and reinvesting and don't operate a normal academy to bring young players through.

If they can't sell, or reinvest, at the same levels due to financial constraints of clubs, then the model falls apart.  They don't have young academy players to bring through so it'll be interesting to see whether they can continue to push over the next couple of seasons.

In theory our academy should ensure a pipeline of future players....

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5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Did we fire LJ to save money ? Sorry this is complete nonsense suggesting that due to hardship we cannot afford anyone to run our team . 5 weeks ago I did not hear the financial argument  when it was clear then that we were facing a tough year ahead. Why did we go through a charade of advertising the fact we were searching for someone to take us to the next level . Then appoint someone who was part of the problem in the first place . Well firing Ashton wound free up some money and would sort out the other part of the problem at the club . 

so after an extend and extensive recruitment, with apparently global interest we decide on Holden .

you could not make up such idiotic behaviour . It has zero to do with money and everything to do with. Ashton wanting to control the club , with the Lansdown family pressing various buttons when they please .

As for the improvement under Holden , well we had nothing to play for , and in the last games , whilst there was semblances of shape , we were still pretty average . Maybe coming from such a disastrous poor level has clouded judgement .

This is a nonsense , total nonsense , and asks huge questions about Ashton , who should have been fired with LJ , and the blind spot SL has for running the football club. 
 

LJ was part of the problem but it seems no one at the club has even the remotest idea on what the solutions are . No wonder we remain a constant disappointment.  That looks to continue. Just when we needed lifting and getting the supporters united and with the club and team , BCFC manage to do the opposite.

 

 

I really don’t think this is financial at all.  I think it is Gregor (who’s been pretty much spot on through this) trying to add some sense to it....but it doesn’t fit.

It appears that Hughton is City’s number one choice (Gerrard was as a vanity appointment initially), but they’ve been at an impasse for various reasons, e.g. control of transfers, Hughton still holding out for Fulham etcetc.  Holden is the back up plan, because it’s either get the number one or not.

They need to thrash out differences with Hughton quickly.

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42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I really don’t think this is financial at all.  I think it is Gregor (who’s been pretty much spot on through this) trying to add some sense to it....but it doesn’t fit.

It appears that Hughton is City’s number one choice (Gerrard was as a vanity appointment initially), but they’ve been at an impasse for various reasons, e.g. control of transfers, Hughton still holding out for Fulham etcetc.  Holden is the back up plan, because it’s either get the number one or not.

They need to thrash out differences with Hughton quickly.

why is DH the back up plan? There were eight interviewees the other week? Surely there are better candidates if what MA/GmG said was true? (MA said loads of applications and GmG reported eight)

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