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How the hell does Ashton spin this?


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6 minutes ago, One Team said:

Totally agree.

I can’t recall a more ridiculous appointment especially after the rationale for LJ’s sacking and SL’s rhetoric on the back of it.

I would rather have given LJ another season! 

I'm afraid I can. 1999 when we interviewed David Moyes and appointed Pulis. Is this another missed opportunity?

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I was furious when this news first broke and I remain furious, and I imagine I will for some time. Part of me expects a short announcement and radio silence on it for 2 weeks, until everyone mellows out on it a bit.

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Just now, numbeast said:

I'm afraid I can. 1999 when we interviewed David Moyes and appointed Pulis. Is this another missed opportunity?

You make a good point but Pulis had a reasonable track record at the time. 

 

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The sad part.... Some will buy the bullshit that will be served up

We will have a manager with the least experience in the league 

A manager that couldn't get the Oldham job

And a five week process to select a candidate that has worked here for years!!!

Sorry to say, if MA told me today is Saturday, I'd check my diary to be sure...

City, don't spout off about grand plans and growth and the employ the number two with no experience and five weeks of interviews

Pathetic

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I am honestly expecting nigh on silence from the muppets honestly. 

It wont be the first time Ashton has gone for radio silence. The club is already showing their ability to lay low now.

If anything, I suspect we will hear from Lansdown, being wildly defensive and no doubt having some kind of a cheap dig at fans. 

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2 minutes ago, One Team said:

You make a good point but Pulis had a reasonable track record at the time. 

 

He did but he also had form for leaving a club then suing them. Thankfully I worked most weekends so didn't attend until he left.

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In terms of the title of the thread why aren’t SL and JL implicated?

I see Ashton bearing the brunt of our frustrations but why should they be let off the hook?

Of course like all of you I am grateful for what they have done off the pitch but that doesn’t mean they are beyond criticism for woeful football decisions. Again. 

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6 minutes ago, One Team said:

In terms of the title of the thread why aren’t SL and JL implicated?

I see Ashton bearing the brunt of our frustrations but why should they be let off the hook?

Of course like all of you I am grateful for what they have done off the pitch but that doesn’t mean they are beyond criticism for woeful football decisions. Again. 

I completely agree.

People may not like what im about to say, but im going to say it.

Although Ashton to me feels like a slimy snake, its Lansdown that bears the brunt. Im at the point that im starting to believe he is Egotistical to the extreme. There are just to many shoddy yes men appointments now at this point. And when you also look at how Cotterill was treated, and how he was basically cut out of all the celebratory pics in tweets by the club recently (******* embarrassing that, shambolic), and the fact he named a goddamn stand after himself. I mean.......Who isnt grateful for the funding? But I would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable myself with naming a stand after myself personally. 

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11 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I am honestly expecting nigh on silence from the muppets honestly. 

It wont be the first time Ashton has gone for radio silence. The club is already showing their ability to lay low now.

If anything, I suspect we will hear from Lansdown, being wildly defensive and no doubt having some kind of a cheap dig at fans. 

No doubt,Covid,tough times and we want promotion Is just some things you can expect from SL mouth 

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4 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

No doubt,Covid,tough times and we want promotion Is just some things you can expect from SL mouth 

"tough times ahead" "Holden was the stand out candidate" "he buys into our philosophy" "He was outstanding in caretaker role, model pro" "players respond well to him" "Its my club, if fans dont like me, il leave, but i wont" yada yada yada. "Judge me on Holden" "playoffs expected"  just bull****. 

Edited by Atticus
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2 minutes ago, Atticus said:

"tough times ahead" "Holden was the stand out candidate" "he buys into our philosophy" "He was outstanding in caretaker role, model pro" "players respond well to him" "Its my club, if fans dont like me, il leave, but i wont" yada yada yada. "Judge me on Holden" "playoffs expected"  just bull****. 

Word for word that will be what’s said.

And still some fans lap this shit up.

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I also feel very sorry for Holden. It should be a huge moment for him personally, a huge job and opportunity.

The board have made it nigh on impossible for him unless he makes an outstanding start. I’m certain he’ll accept, but the board have made it so much harder for him through raising expectations and faffing around. A quick appointment after LJ citing Covid uncertainty and fans would be more forgiving. A couple of early losses and he’s going to get such a tough time.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I also feel very sorry for Holden. It should be a huge moment for him personally, a huge job and opportunity.

The board have made it nigh on impossible for him unless he makes an outstanding start. I’m certain he’ll accept, but the board have made it so much harder for him through raising expectations and faffing around. A quick appointment after LJ citing Covid uncertainty and fans would be more forgiving. A couple of early losses and he’s going to get such a tough time.

Its a toxic as **** appointment that he should of been aware of to begin with.

IMO these feelings of fans with the board have been brewing for a while. 

Edited by Atticus
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46 bloody years I've backed this club and we were in the best position ever, and that includes when we were in the top flight, and they do this?

Balls to us 'customers', balls to 'ambition' and balls to what Lansdown said a month ago.

Balls to us essentially. keep paying your £500 for the same mediocrity.

My answer, with all possible respect to Dean Holden, who is not a part of this, Balls to my £500 a season then City! 

Hughton was so perfect or this club IF our owner and the odious CEO showed any ambition to back up their hollow words about 'the Premier league as soon as possible' were true.

A 46 year man seriously thinking of doing something worthwhile on a Saturday while you 'sustain' my club in mediocrity, maybe even relegate us while the gas go sailing past.

What on earth have you done?

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I also feel very sorry for Holden. It should be a huge moment for him personally, a huge job and opportunity.

The board have made it nigh on impossible for him unless he makes an outstanding start. I’m certain he’ll accept, but the board have made it so much harder for him through raising expectations and faffing around. A quick appointment after LJ citing Covid uncertainty and fans would be more forgiving. A couple of early losses and he’s going to get such a tough time.

Dean H has been hung out to dry as the fall man and you know it.

Lovely ground for the rugby Champions though.

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Ashton will say **** all.

He only appears to bask in the glory when times are good. 

I said not so long ago on here that I still couldn't make my mind up whether I liked him or not.

Well I have now. Can't believe it took me so long. And I have Watford fans in my family as well.

He's the definition of a slimy coward IMO. The sooner he is gone, the better.

And I have had enough of Lansdown now as well.

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3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

46 bloody years I've backed this club and we were in the best position ever, and that includes when we were in the top flight, and they do this?

Balls to us 'customers', balls to 'ambition' and balls to what Lansdown said a month ago.

Balls to us essentially. keep paying your £500 for the same mediocrity.

My answer, with all possible respect to Dean Holden, who is not a part of this, Balls to my £500 a season then City! 

Hughton was so perfect or this club IF our owner and the odious CEO showed any ambition to back up their hollow words about 'the Premier league as soon as possible' were true.

A 46 year man seriously thinking of doing something worthwhile on a Saturday while you 'sustain' my club in mediocrity, maybe even relegate us while the gas go sailing past.

What on earth have you done?

I agree that Houghton was a perfect fit for us. Unfortunately he is not a perfect fit for Lansdown. As long as he is owner, we have no chance of getting a manager that is a "perfect" fit for us, only a perfect fit for Mr. Lansdown. 

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1 minute ago, Atticus said:

I agree that Houghton was a perfect fit for us. Unfortunately he is not a perfect fit for Lansdown. As long as he is owner, we have no chance of getting a manager that is a "perfect" fit for us, only a perfect fit for Mr. Lansdown. 

'Perfect' mediocrity then Atticus. The rugby club are building a world class team and structure while we are not! If this doesn't work the football club could well be back in L1 with the pub sides in 12 months. 14K max next season I reckon.

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Just now, Ska Junkie said:

'Perfect' mediocrity then Atticus. The rugby club are building a world class team and structure while we are not! If this doesn't work the football club could well be back in L1 with the pub sides in 12 months. 14K max next season I reckon.

I have no doubt its because Stevey wants more say and input in first team affairs with the football. Hence the constant appointments of inexperienced "head coaches"

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27 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I genuinely don’t know how Ashton can spin this appointment to be anything other than the pathetic shambles that it is. What on earth can he say?

How the hell can he claim he is the right man for the job? What credentials can he point to? What experience or achievements?

How can he say he was the “standout candidate” with so many good prospective candidates readily available?

How does he explain a 5 week recruitment process that ends up with the bloke that puts out the cones?

How can he talk about “ambition” ever again?

I’m asking genuinely here - I really can’t see a way the club can present this in any sort of positive light. Any ideas?

This strikes me as the most appallingly damaging episode I can remember in over 30 years supporting this club, in terms of fanbase relations and cohesion between club and supporters. It’s a disaster. And it’s beyond my comprehension how the club can’t see that and how they are going to let it happen.

I’ve been furious too and feeling totally let down since this story broke.  It’s such a ridiculous appointment, I’ve been trying to look at other angles to try and make sense of it and my conclusion fwiw.

if this is actually confirmed by the club, we need to look at this appointment in another way.  

We’ve all heard all the spiel about aiming for the Premier League whilst making the club sustainable.  What if it’s now been decided that, rather than go all out for the Prem, we’re going to aim to consolodate in the Championship, whilst putting more emphasis on the Academy and creating more ‘pathways’ for our younger talent?  If we get a production line going, possibly SL believes that’ll bring its own form of stability in terms of a steady flow of transfer fees.

Looking from that angle, Dean Holden would assumedly tow the line, bring the young ones through, not complain about players constantly being sold and not complain about interferance from above.  Viewed like that and not on the promotion criteria, you can see how the club might see him as far preferable to Chris Hughton for where they want to be.

Another thing I couldn’t get my head round is why they sacked LJ when they did?  It obviously wasn’t to bring someone in quickly (unless he was already here of course!).  Maybe with LJ knowing his nuts were on the line, he started kicking up about losing Fammy and Eliasson at the end of the season ..... there could be others we don’t know about yet.  Whereas in the past he’s been prepared to go along with it this season was falling off badly and he would have realised there would be no progression this year and it could be costing him his job.  

Bringing in Dean Holden could be that ‘breath of fresh air’ Ashton was talking about, as he would be fully into the project and maybe they thought LJ no longer was.

Looking at it that way, I can see more logic in the sacking of LJ and an appointment of DH from the board’s viewpoint.  I still think it stinks and is a total betrayal of us fans though.

As for Mark Ashtons spin, I think his only chance will be to admit the priorities have changed and to forget any ideas of the Premier League at present.

There will still be plenty of fallout, but now it’s time to level with the fans if this really is the plan for the future.

Apologies for the long post folks!

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7 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I have no doubt its because Stevey wants more say and input in first team affairs with the football. Hence the constant appointments of inexperienced "head coaches"

You may be right but I would think he's after glory and doing that with the rugby boys is much cheaper than backing up his bullshit promises about the Premier league. He could make Bris European Champions on half the money it would cost to make us also rans in that league.

I reckon he's said 'balls' to us football fans. If he hasn't, his son and the spin meister certainly have.

Edited by Ska Junkie
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5 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

You may be right but I would think he's after glory and doing that with the rugby boys is much cheaper than backing up his bullshit promises about the Premier league. He could make Bris European Champions on half the money it would cost to make us also rans in that league.

I reckon he's said 'balls' to us football fans. If he hasn't, his son and the spin meister certainly have.

The guy is a billionaire. 

Im not expecting him to spend the earth on us cus I dont. I wouldnt even be mad if we were more of a league one club, as long as i knew we were trying to appoint the best man for the job. But we arent. We are not appointing the best man for the job are we? Why is it we will splash the cash for players and wages but never for the best man for manager? It makes zero sense that he is doing this. Thats why i believe what I do. 

Again, Tinnion, Millen, Johson, and now Holden. 

This time we basically know there was many very keen external candidates. It does not add up. 

Edited by Atticus
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Just now, Atticus said:

The guy is a billionaire. 

Im not expecting him to spend the earth on us cus I dont. I wouldnt even be mad if we were more of a league one club, as long as i knew we were trying to appoint the best man for the job. But we arent. We are not appointing the best man for the job are we? Why is it we will splash the cash for players and wages but never for the best man for manager? It makes zero sense that he is doing this. Thats why i believe what I do. 

I'm not disagreeing Atticus. 

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1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I genuinely don’t know how Ashton can spin this appointment to be anything other than the pathetic shambles that it is. What on earth can he say?

How the hell can he claim he is the right man for the job? What credentials can he point to? What experience or achievements?

How can he say he was the “standout candidate” with so many good prospective candidates readily available?

How does he explain a 5 week recruitment process that ends up with the bloke that puts out the cones?

How can he talk about “ambition” ever again?

I’m asking genuinely here - I really can’t see a way the club can present this in any sort of positive light. Any ideas?

This strikes me as the most appallingly damaging episode I can remember in over 30 years supporting this club, in terms of fanbase relations and cohesion between club and supporters. It’s a disaster. And it’s beyond my comprehension how the club can’t see that and how they are going to let it happen.

Totally agree.

I’m not sure how he can announce Holden with being honest about failing to get other managers across the line.  He can say they didn’t impress, but I can’t believe it budget....or why would you bother chasing them.  So it can only be structure and control....and that’s either wanting to bring in their own people or not getting a big enough say.

We’ve seen the club improve its status to probably its highest attractiveness in many years (certainly 10+), and I think it’s proved that the 3 men who are truly running the show (SL, MA and JL) between them have been found out by the managers they’ve interviewed, for being below the skill level to attract the best candidates.  Obviously assumes there’s no last minute panic repair job with Hughton.

Ashton might end up being the fall guy here from a board perspective.

Deano will be too, but in some respects he was just an internal applicant who they had to go with.  Who knows they may have asked him to carry on as a longer term caretaker?  He is putting some of his career on the line as a manager perhaps, but not as a coach.

I genuinely think Deano will do ok though.

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1 hour ago, numbeast said:

I'm afraid I can. 1999 when we interviewed David Moyes and appointed Pulis. Is this another missed opportunity?

In summer 1999.

Pulis- Promotions 1- Playoff final 1. With Gillingham- they were stoppage time equaliser away from promotion to the 2nd tier for first time in their history!

Moyes- Just starting out.

Hindsight much? Not that I'm pro Pulis but there are many ways to interpret.

I thought it was Pulis v Taylor in any case- or was it all 3 but in different stages of the recruitment process.

PS, not that it is necessarily a clincher of a factor but Gillingham in fact eliminated Preston- Pulis 2-1 Moyes- in that seasons playoffs, the season prior to joining us.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Totally agree.

I’m not sure how he can announce Holden with being honest about failing to get other managers across the line.  He can say they didn’t impress, but I can’t believe it budget....or why would you bother chasing them.  So it can only be structure and control....and that’s either wanting to bring in their own people or not getting a big enough say.

We’ve seen the club improve its status to probably its highest attractiveness in many years (certainly 10+), and I think it’s proved that the 3 men who are truly running the show (SL, MA and JL) between them have been found out by the managers they’ve interviewed, for being below the skill level to attract the best candidates.  Obviously assumes there’s no last minute panic repair job with Hughton.

Ashton might end up being the fall guy here from a board perspective.

Deano will be too, but in some respects he was just an internal applicant who they had to go with.  Who knows they may have asked him to carry on as a longer term caretaker?  He is putting some of his career on the line as a manager perhaps, but not as a coach.

I genuinely think Deano will do ok though.

Dave you have a lot more optimism than me. I think Holden will be found wanting very quickly, and after the sale of a few players over the summer to balance the books, we will be bottom half next season, and looking more at relegation than promotion.

The reality is that there was really only one interview question. Are you willing to work within the strictures (Although I am sure SL & MA would call them structures) we have set for how the club is currently run? And anything other than unequivocal “yes“ meant being ruled out. Which only left Holden.

Sorry but this is the least inspiring managerial appointment in 20 years, because I can at least explain Tinnion and Millen, given the situation with the club at the time. However no amount of dressing up is going to cover the fact that as it stands we aren’t a very attractive option, if after 5 weeks and supposedly many interviews, the best we can do is appoint the assistant for the last 4 years.

And as many have said on here, the contrast with the rugby club coaching set-up and ambition is just jaw-dropping. However the returns there are so much smaller than they are for a successful football club in the top flight, so why the reticence to let a top coach do things his way? The only reason can be that would mean ditching MA and our policy of buying cheap and in bulk from the lower divisions and hoping one or 2 come good and can turn a healthy profit in transfer fees. Unfortunately if you keep selling your talent, then you are very unlikely to progress.

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