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NFL Season 20/21


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Players at college level are requested to indicate whether they wish to join the NFL, not a specific club. If they do, then they accept that the system works in this way and will go to the team that picks them. Draft Day (or weekend, in fact) is an intense time for teams who hold the place in the queue and can use them as bartering collateral; teams may have particular needs and trade up or down for a more advantageous place, so it's not nailed on that the Jags (or whoever is ranked last in the league) will pick the number one (Lawrence).

In terms of players ending up at terrible clubs, there has long been a tradition that they stay for the while. Sometimes they are the piece in the jigsaw of a long term rebuilding programme. Few college players try to blatantly get a move elsewhere, but clearly there can be the long-held suspicion that a high pick rookie may be deliberately under-performing to get out. Naturally, rookies are prone to being under the microscope anyway and becoming a pro is a difficult job. Many well-intentioned young men have blown out spectacularly and deeply regretted it. The NFL stands for Not For Long, afer all.

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3 hours ago, northsomersetred said:

You have some of the richest people in the USA (the owners and capitalists) actively participating in socialism😲

Team that finishes with the worst record gets the first pick of the players eligible for that years draft.

And if you want to watch football with supporters who have a connection with the team (as in the majority of football supporters here, not like your plastic mancs or scousers) then watch college football, it is bigger than the NFL.

I understand how the draft works, at least in its most basic form. I've not yet mastered trading picks etc. I get that the team with the worst record picks first, and the SB winner picks last. However I'm asking why Trevor Lawrence can't simply refuse to sign for the Jags if he doesn't want to, as you surely can't be forced into employment.

2 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

They could refuse to sign, however the team that drafted them has their rights, so they couldn't play for another team unless that team agreed to trade them.

Surely that goes against an individual to be employed by who they like? Or does the club that picks him own his registration?

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3 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

Players at college level are requested to indicate whether they wish to join the NFL, not a specific club. If they do, then they accept that the system works in this way and will go to the team that picks them. Draft Day (or weekend, in fact) is an intense time for teams who hold the place in the queue and can use them as bartering collateral; teams may have particular needs and trade up or down for a more advantageous place, so it's not nailed on that the Jags (or whoever is ranked last in the league) will pick the number one (Lawrence).

In terms of players ending up at terrible clubs, there has long been a tradition that they stay for the while. Sometimes they are the piece in the jigsaw of a long term rebuilding programme. Few college players try to blatantly get a move elsewhere, but clearly there can be the long-held suspicion that a high pick rookie may be deliberately under-performing to get out. Naturally, rookies are prone to being under the microscope anyway and becoming a pro is a difficult job. Many well-intentioned young men have blown out spectacularly and deeply regretted it. The NFL stands for Not For Long, afer all.

So at what point do you become a free agent? Or do you have to go through at least one draft, or is that for college players only?

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There have been cases of college draft players outright refusing to play for the NFL team - one such was the great John Elway: he was picked by the Colts but forced them to trade him to Denver eventually. That caused a fair deal of friction, some compensatory draft picks but mainly a bad smell. The important factor was that Elway (and others in this situation, mainly QBs) were highly rated. That made the team picking, retaining his registration, had some value in the trading. Picks taken late in the draft would be of less value and, in the circumstances, would probably be dropped without much fanfare.

Another factor that might come into view is the fact that some football players are also very good in other sports. Take Patrick Mahomes for example: he would have been gladly embraced by baseball - and probably have achieved greatness there. Playing hard to get, maybe.

Free Agency: players are required to have played for at least three seasons and then they may become Restricted Free Agents. Trading values are in play, should there be a move. After four seasons a player may become an Unrestricted Free Agent and have much more freedom over transferring. If you have the time, have a look at https://operations.nfl.com/updates/football-ops/2020-nfl-free-agency-questions-answers/

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3 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I understand how the draft works, at least in its most basic form. I've not yet mastered trading picks etc. I get that the team with the worst record picks first, and the SB winner picks last. However I'm asking why Trevor Lawrence can't simply refuse to sign for the Jags if he doesn't want to, as you surely can't be forced into employment.

Surely that goes against an individual to be employed by who they like? Or does the club that picks him own his registration?

Erithacus has explained things very well. 
Essentially a college player can ‘declare’ for the draft. If he declares then essentially he is subject to the system and will play for whichever team selects him. As mentioned, rarely does a player refuse to play for that team - John Elway being the most (in)famous. 
The number 1 pick will go to the worst team. But that worst team immediately gets better with that pick. A top drawer QB can easily turn a teams fortunes around. We had this with Joe Burrow last year. He makes us infinitely better, but not straight away. We improve this year, but gradually, each draft, you can now build the rest of your team around that elite QB. An elite QB will understand that, yes, he’s going to the worst team, but he can make a difference and thus become an absolute legend at that team. 
 

Now, the free agency status kinda depends (tho not always) on when you were selected in the draft. 
If you are a first round pick, your contract length is automatically 4 years, with the team having an automatic right to extend it to 5. 
If you are drafted in any other round, your contract length is simply 4 years. 
If you are undrafted, tends to be a 3 year contract. 
 

At the end of your contract, you can re-sign with the team or put yourself out to free-agency. Any team can then negotiate with you. However, if you had a 3 year contract (ie undrafted), you are a Restricted Free Agent. This means that you can go to another team, but if your current team offers you a similar value contract, then they will be compensated with an additional draft pick if you leave. 
 

There is another option which teams often take up. Franchise Tag. 
This is basically a player that is a free agent, whom you’ve tried to negotiate a new contract with but they refuse to sign. If you want them to stay, you can keep them for 1 more year by Franchise Tagging them. This means they sign a 1 year deal to a value set by the NFL, which is calculated as the average salary of the Top 5 players in your position. But you can only franchise tag 1 player per season. 
 

The NFL has certain timelines, almost like a transfer window. The Free Agency period starts usually in the first week of March. Players then get signed and the teams therefore know what they need to improve upon when they go into the Draft, which comes at the end of April. 
 

The draft is brilliant. I love it. The show goes on all night but I recommend watching it. You get great insights into teams needs, the scouting reports of the players selected, how they’ll fit into the team they’ve been selected to. It’s a great event (well, it was pre-covid). 
The first round is selected on Day 1. The Thursday. Day 2 is 2nd and 3rd rounds. Day 3 is 4-7th rounds. After that, if you’ve not been picked you go ‘undrafted’ and then can talk to any team. 
 

Trading is a quite complicated. Teams have discussions with each other, off the record, all through the off season, discussing whether they are open to trades. 

If trading a player (ie he’s still in contract), then a certain value will be assigned to him. This could be based on where he was originally drafted along with how he had performed so far in the NFL, and of course his age. A top top player, if you want to trade for him you’ll have to offer a lot - would often involve another player moving the other way, plus high draft picks. Arizona traded with Houston last year and managed to get Deandre Hopkins for a 2nd and a 4th. A damn fine deal for Arizona! 
 

If you are trading up in the draft, this has certain values. If you are picking number 7 for example, but you want the top QB and want to trade up to pick 1, you’ll have to offer the team at 1 a damn good deal. 
As an example, a few years back Washington wanted Robert Griffin the Third. He was pretty unanimously going to be picked at 2, after Andrew Luck at 1. Washington offered their 1st & 2nd round picks of that year, plus their 1st round picks for the next 2 years!! So the Rams went back to Pick 7, but they benefited in the future by having an extra 1st rounder for the next 2 years as well. 
 

Each draft pick has a value. These values are used to roughly determine if it’s a worthy trade offer. See pic below. 
As an example, if you are pick 7 and want to trade to pick 1, pick 1 is worth 3,000 points. Your pick 7 is only worth 1,500. So you have to offer this years pick plus next years pick to get to an equivalent of 3,000. But there’s no guarantee you are picking 7 next year, so you have to offer over the value, so you’d likely throw this years 2nd in as well, worth 510. Even then, the team at 1 might not think that represents value. You might have to throw next years 2nd in as well. So it’s all down to team negotiators, based on a rough pick value chart, but also your own bargaining as to the value of the player you’re likely to miss out on and the need for the team involved. 
 

As mentioned earlier, make sure you watch the draft in April. It’s a brilliant spectacle and really gives you an insight into the new players entering the league. I love draft day. 
 

Hope that helps, but if you have any questions, pop them up and I’m sure between a few of us we’ll answer them. 👍

 

E19E666B-626A-442A-BD87-97FEBA3169E9.jpeg

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So the Bills sneak into the Divisionals with some rollercoaster football. Josh Allen is a third year QB and seems to still need a little more application but he did what was required. Sadly, ol' man Phil Rivers may well have seen the last of the NFL - which would be a pity as he can still make a big contribution. Also looked and felt odd to have real fans in the stadium - we've been denied too long.

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19 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

However I'm asking why Trevor Lawrence can't simply refuse to sign for the Jags if he doesn't want to, as you surely can't be forced into employment.

Surely that goes against an individual to be employed by who they like? Or does the club that picks him own his registration?

He can refuse. The team owns his rights for the next year but relinquish them when the next draft process happens. So he holds out a year then re-enters the draft.

This essentially never happens* as most players don't have the leverage to make it worth their while and the teams talk to the players before they draft them. Very very occasionally the QB picked number 1 overall forces a trade to another team they want to go to. Elway, Eli Manning.

*Bo Jackson

Draft looks especially fun this upcoming year with doubts over what the teams at 2 and 3 will do. What they do could cause chaos in round 1. Was great last year as it was basically the only sport happening!

Edited by Prinny
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39 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Thanks guys. Think I understand it now

Good year to start following the browns. Picked them as I like an underdog. That start from the Steelers was woeful. 

What I said earlier in the season didn't account for the Steelers late season collapse! Great to see, one of the most hateable teams! Well done the Browns but a HUGE step up in quality next time. Anyone who can beat the Chiefs can win it all IMO!

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11 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Good year to start following the browns

It certainly is. Also a good example of a perennial 'cellar dweller' team picking up a top QB in the draft (#1 overall in 2018) and starting to build success around him. Seems what Osi said about the Steelers (the unwashed underwear comment) had weight.

OK then, who are people looking to be the team to lift the Lombardi Trophy next month? I have a strange feeling about the Saints with their Brees/Hill/who-knows-which-QB system, although I'm not sure they will win it all.

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16 hours ago, Erithacus said:

It certainly is. Also a good example of a perennial 'cellar dweller' team picking up a top QB in the draft (#1 overall in 2018) and starting to build success around him. Seems what Osi said about the Steelers (the unwashed underwear comment) had weight.

OK then, who are people looking to be the team to lift the Lombardi Trophy next month? I have a strange feeling about the Saints with their Brees/Hill/who-knows-which-QB system, although I'm not sure they will win it all.

AFC

Chiefs Browns - Chiefs by 8

Bills Ravens - Ravens by 4

Chiefs Ravens - Chiefs by 5

NFC

Saints Buccs - Saints by 12

Packers Rams - Packers by 16

Packers Saints - Packers by 4

SB

Chiefs Packers - Chiefs by 12

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On 01/01/2021 at 00:26, Erithacus said:

In other news... The Armed Forces Bowl ends in a right rip-up. Tulsa v Mississippi State began with some trash talk before the kick-off and after the final play errupted into an on-field brawl. Lots of ugly scenes as players got into a scrap for several minutes.  :boxing: :redcard:   Perhaps that's why it was the Armed Forces Bowl? Oddly, Army played West Virginia in the Liberty Bowl...

Happy New Year to all players, coaches and fans.

I was just catching up on this. Hadn’t seen it before and found the video below which actually has quite a funny take on it. 
 

 

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13 hours ago, Harry said:

I was just catching up on this. Hadn’t seen it before and found the video below which actually has quite a funny take on it. 
 

 

They were using Premier league VAR for this game, which said nothing happened, nothing to see, no offences, no clear and obvious error.

However, it did take the action back 20 minutes to penalise a linebacker for not having his socks pulled all the way up.

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Always rely on Americans to see the flip side of trouble. I find it a tad paradoxical that these young men spend two hours a day, six days a week on the practice grounds being coached stringently on how to hit an opponent and make it count. Then when they break out in open street-fighting they act like neanderthals. And that's the brawl game!

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17 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

So, who do we all have this weekend? I will continue my support of Team Anyone-But-Brady by getting behind the Saints.

Screenshot_20210116-105058.png

Who I think

Packers 

Ravens 

Chiefs 

Saints 

 

Who I would like 

Rams

Bills

Chiefs/browns (torn between theories here) but I guess Chiefs

Saints

 

 

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Must admit that I find the Divisionals the most appetising. The weak wild carders are sifted out and now we have a real flavour of who can get to the Superbowl. Credentials on full show here on in.

Agree with the Pack being too good, as are the Saints. Think this season is a little too soon for the upcoming Browns. However, I am really feeling excited by the clash of the Ravens-Bills. Two good teams and hard hitting Ds. That's why I love playoff football.

Edited by Erithacus
typo
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4 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

So, who do we all have this weekend? I will continue my support of Team Anyone-But-Brady by getting behind the Saints.

I'm picking all four home team favourites.

I cannot see Cleveland or LA beating the 1 seeds.

So best chances are for Baltimore or the Bucs for an upset.

14 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

Must admit that I find the Divisionals the most appetising. The weak wild carders are sifted out and now we have a real flavour of who can get to the Superbowl. Credentials on full show here on in.

Agree with the Pack being too good, as are the Saints. Think this season is a little too soon for the upcoming Browns. However, I am really feeling excited by the clash of the Ravens-Bills. Two good teams and hard hitting Ds. That's why I love playoff football.

And agree, I always this is the best in terms of quality week of football. 

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No doubting the Pack O, but I don't have too much faith in their D if this is anything to go by. Need to be a level better in the next game if they are to get to the big show.

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What a great game at Buffalo. Two expansive teams almost cancelling each other out (I love a good, tight, low-scoring game). But Lamar Jackson's pick six from his own end-zone by Bill's DB Taron Johnson was a Defensive dream. Jackson then got smacked at the goal-line and left the game with concussion. Ouch.

Getting set for tonight's clashes. An old man in the Superbowl? It might not be so unlikely with Rogers, Brees and Brady in the hot seats. The NFL scriptwriters are having a field day.

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2 good games last night. 
Packers deserving the win but you do wonder how much the loss of Aaron Donald impacted the Rams. 
Bills Ravens was a nice tight affair, but the Bills defence schemed well to nullify Lamar’s leg threat. That’s the secret with Lamar, make him throw. 
 

Looking forward to tonight’s games. Browns shouldn’t be a match for KC but their Defence can turn up sometimes and their running game is very good, so they could compete. Chiefs for me though. 
Intriguing matchup again with Brady and Brees. First time Brady has lost both games vs a divisional rival this year, so have NO got the sign over them, or does Brady come extra fired up. Should be a good one, but I can only see a Saints win. 

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