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Line up for game 1??


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Betting the farm on Moore, Walsh and Morrell. Desperately want them to  step up, but what if they don’t. Record since Brownhill left was pretty poor. Then take away Fammy, Korey and Eliasson. With no notable additions and a rookie manager. Gamble doesn’t begin to describe it. My only prediction is that by the end of the season Ashton will be picking up a huge bonus or his P45.

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21 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

My only prediction is that by the end of the season Ashton will be picking up a huge bonus or his P45.

Spot on. 
Ashton has really stuck his neck on the line here. 
Absolutely spot on. 
 

If the owners aim is playoffs, the previous coach was dismissed for failing to achieve that, and Ashton has recommended Holden after a “rigorous” and “vigorous” 5 week process, then failure to hit playoffs should certainly result in his dismissal. 

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59 minutes ago, Red & Gold said:

I personally really dislike 352 - but appreciate that others seem to love it.  I just feel it only works if your wide centre backs are who are, not just comfortable on the ball, but very attack minded. Prepared and able to overlap, comfortable dribbling and taking on a player and have good pace and energy.  They need to play as the extra wide player in attack when the ball is on that side of the pitch. Sheffield United do it excellently and so did we under SC.  I don't think we have the players for that e.g. NB, AW and NB although Moore could potentially be one of them. However, without two of them I think it can become a rigid and turgid formation. I know I am in the minority but I thought one of the issues we had last year was that we had a squad assembled for 4231/433 (e.g. a vast number of wingers and No.10s including our biggest assist threat in NE), but we were to determined to play 2 up top, be that 352 or 442, this is despite our main strengths and balance of the squad assembled. E.g. NE couldn't fit into that and other players such as CO'D got shoehorned into unnatural positions (centre mid). 442 didn't help that much ether as NE needed greater protection than you get from playing with 2 centre midfielders and playing as a winger against most oppositions who play 451 meant we were out numbered so he would have to sit in narrower to try and compete numerically and in turn diminishing his attacking threat, and in turn expositing his defensive weaknesses.  It's probably why our possession stats were so low. Equally, I am not sure our strikers suited a 442 e.g. they were all generally quite similar - play on the last man - strikers.  We don't really have a link up, drop in the hole front man to complement the other one. Thus we ended up playing with straight lines which are easy to mark and create little space.  People see 4231 as being quite defensive but a settled attacking midfield 3 of  NE. KP  & AW/JP with one of Fam/BA/NW upfront would have had pace, width, counter attacking ability and got the best out of our biggest threat in NE. For me, last year's team should had been built around him. He could had been as effective for us as how Mosses and Sinclair was for Palace back in the day. To late now as he will be off I am sure. 

Anyway, football is a game of opinions and all in the past but 352 does concern me if entertaining football is what we want. 

Good post.  There is no magic formula as you say.  Strengths and weaknesses of them all.  A back 3 of Moore / Kalas / Benkovic looks much better theoretically from a possession basis that Williams / Kalas / Baker.

I think we have to sit back and watch the ins and outs over the next few weeks then start to draw conclusions.

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ve tried a number of times last season to try to explain the Nagy/Massengo traits and have probably used a thousand words. 
You’ve used 14 words in one sentence that succinctly states my thoughts. 
Well done Orange. I like it. 

Yet, Nagy, Massengo and Brownhill v Fulham(a) was good.  Your issue Harry (Not a criticism of you btw) is we not only lost Pack, we introduced players not capable of playing a system built for Pack.  Whoever is to blame from LJ to MA...that was the eff-up imho. 

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yet, Nagy, Massengo and Brownhill v Fulham(a) was good.  Your issue Harry (Not a criticism of you btw) is we not only lost Pack, we introduced players not capable of playing a system built for Pack.  Whoever is to blame from LJ to MA...that was the eff-up imho. 

Agreed. Nagy & Massengo can’t play a system built on controlling possession. 
Holden showed that Paterson was capable of doing that in his 5 games. No surprise that when we put someone comfortable in possession in their own third, that we suddenly saw a dramatic increase in possession and passes. 
It’s why I can’t see what Nagy does for us. Pato is not a CM, yet he looked every inch a far superior one than Nagy in a possession-dominant team. 

Edited by Harry
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9 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

My only prediction is that by the end of the season Ashton will be picking up a huge bonus or his P45.

We don't really know if it was MA who made this decision or the Lansdowns. JL was involved in interviewing and will have talked to his dad about which way to go. If they made this call then has MA really got anything to worry about? As long as he keeps getting good fees when we sell players I suspect his job is safe. 

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13 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

It appears deano wants to play a 352 for next season, there may be one or 2 in, but as it stands who would you have as the starting 11?

for me

                 bentley

        moore kalas baker

vyner                     Dasilva

        Morell nagy walsh 
 
           diedhou wells

thats assuming fam is still here, which doesnt seem likely at the moment

Midfield like that in the Championship and you have got no chance 

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12 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

This has to be Palmers chance. He should be told he will start the first 5 games regardless, and see what he can do. The 20 minutes he had against PNE he was damn near untouchable. More of the same please.

What makes you think that Dean will play Palmer ? He wouldn’t play him in the last 5 games of the season so doubt he’s going to be first name on the list this season either, last 3 games accumulated in 2 points and he still wouldn’t play Palmer 

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10 hours ago, Lrrr said:

With squad as of today

                                  Bentley

           Vyner               Kalas           Moore

Hunt                                                                 Dasilva

                       Morrell            Massengo

                  Walsh                         Paterson

                                      Wells

This looks more likely, just also add in Duffy at the back , oh wait ... we didn’t get a Hughton did we !!! 

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10 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Betting the farm on Moore, Walsh and Morrell. Desperately want them to  step up, but what if they don’t. Record since Brownhill left was pretty poor. Then take away Fammy, Korey and Eliasson. With no notable additions and a rookie manager. Gamble doesn’t begin to describe it. My only prediction is that by the end of the season Ashton will be picking up a huge bonus or his P45.

The positive is that those three lads have moved on from how we remember them by playing matches in real football, not U23’s, which should not be underestimated at their age. They will be better players now, the question being will that be enough.

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Holden might even look to go 541. It might seem defensive but it really doesn't have to be.

2 of Walsh, Morrell, Massengo or Nagy in front of the defence.

We have quite a few who can play in behind the striker. And Wells likes being up top on his own.

2 of Pato, Palmer or Szmodics floating in behind. Even Weimann can do that. As long as he plays more like Boro away and not some of the other games.

Could be very fluid. Plenty of work rate and could be a nice compact look too when out of possession.

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                              Bentley

               Moore      Kalas     Baker

Hunt       Walsh      Nagy     Palmer/Massengo°    Dasilva

                      Wells     Weimann/Paterson°

 

° Depending on the level/tactics of the opponents and what Holden wants (more energy/defensive attention or more creativity).

Edited by Dan Robin
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On 11/08/2020 at 19:24, Harry said:

I think we just go bold & brave, given the midfield options we’ve got. We have no ‘experienced’ CM guy at this level and I don’t trust Nagy. So I’d go with the following (on the assumption we’re losing NE & FD) :

               Bentley

     Kalas-Moore-Baker

Hunt - Walsh - Morrell - Dasilva

               Palmer

     Weimann - Wells 

GK & Back 3 picks itself. 
Paterson would be Palmers back up. 
Vyner to back up Hunt or the CB’s. 
I’d keep Pring to back up Dasilva. 
Massengo & Nagy back up CM’s. 
We lack up top, but Semenyo would be the back up there. 
 

Weimann gives you the legs that Palmer doesn’t in the effort to press high.
Palmer given free reign.
Walsh & Morrell both control tempo but also have licence to roam (providing one stays). Moore can play out. Wing backs high. 

We’ll lose a few games. But we’ll win a few, it’ll hopefully be exciting and also does the job of playing academy lads, Morrell starting with plenty of minutes for Vyner, Pring, Semenyo. 

I know we all want Morrell & Walsh to run our midfield as a pair for the forseeable future, but they have none to little experience in the Championship (yet).

They will in time, but to start with, it's this (for me, anyway)...

 

             Bentley

     Kalas-Moore-Baker

Hunt - Nagy - Morrell - Dasilva

               Paterson

     Fam (or a quality replacement) - Wells

 

... with Walsh or Palmer available to sub on as a replacement for Paterson or more attacking midfield formation.

Massengo, back-up for Nagy or Morrell.

Wiemann available to sub for Wells or Fam/new signing.

Semenyo/Jenna still have to wait for their chance from the bench (at best) - but a big year for both to prove themselves!

We need a new right wing back*, ready to replace Hunt. Vyner is too lackadaisical to fulfill that role and is a centre back/right full back cover (at best).

If we stick to a back three, Vyner would provide some cover, but another has to come in*, if Williiams isn't re-signing.

Tommy Rowe covers DaSilva for now. Sorry. I don't know Pring's game to be able to comment. If he is a left sided defender, then hopefully he can cover DaSilva?

Most importantly, we need a quality, experienced, defensive midfielder & new captain* to hold this all together, probably at the expence of Nagy or Morrell in parts this season and appear for a high percentage of the league games.

I expect Eliasson & Fam will have to be sold to accommodate any new signings though*.

For me, it's a goodbye to Watkins, O'Dowda, Szmodics, as they have not made enough of an impression at this level or held a squad place, let alone a team shirt for long enough or impressed anyone consistently.

O'Leary is no 2 on the bench to Bents with Woolocott going out on loan this time. We need a 4th GK as back-up though (unless Gillmartin is capable) ... but who knows? Has anyone seen him play?

 

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