LJs Tenure - Analysis

[bcfcredandwhite]

Not another LJ thread I hear you say......

Well, I thought I would wait for the dust to settle before posting this. 
I tried very hard to support LJ - I believe he loves our club. I really wanted it to work out and lost faith in him only twice; first during our record breaking losing streak (which he recovered from) and second after the recent Sheffield Wednesday defeat - the final straw for me - he had to go. 
What puzzles me is how did a team that played so well; fast, attractive, attacking football back at the end of 2017, turn into a lethargic negative ‘meh’ side at the end of that season? Then the following seasons we seemed to go through ‘streaks’ of winning runs followed by losing ones - earning LJ the nickname ‘Streaky Johnson’. 
The football seemed to become so negative - we seemed to set up to avoid a defeat - particularly at home - why, when in 2017 LJ showed the football world that his team COULD play football the right way? 
I know he’s a marmite character and there are some people who just don’t like him, but I’m genuinely bemused at what he was trying to achieve towards the end. He is a self-confessed analyst who admits to studying his games thoroughly to try and improve; why then, for all his analysis,  couldn’t he see what his team was doing right when we won, and wrong when we lost? 
Is it perhaps no coincidence that our away record was quite good but our home record not so good? People on here (and other forums) pointed out that especially towards the latter half of the season just gone, we set ourselves up as the away team even when playing at home - defending deep and hoping to hit on the break. 
I commented on the ‘Shot Shy City’ thread that LJ had instructed his players not to shoot from outside the box - I’ve remembered where I got that info from: it was after the win at Cardiff when Brownhill stated that if he’d missed the goal he scored then he would have got a bollocking from LJ for shooting from that distance. Could it be this tactic which led to hours of ‘boring, negative’ football with very few goals? Could it have been that he was playing Wells (top goal scorer in the division at the time we signed him) wrongly? We had both the top goal scorer and the top assister (Eliasson) in the same squad - with Afobe back fit - genuinely thought the goals would come flying in - after all, LJ had Afobe playing really well before his injury, so with Wells AND Fammy it should have been good times. 
Sadly not - and the rest is history, but WHY? I certainly don’t know. When we put 5 past Huddersfield, we all called for LJ to field the same side and formation - which he dutifully did and we were thumped 4-0 by West Brom. Ok WBA stayed in the top 2 most of the season, but 4-0 is still a thumping - how can the same side score 5 one week and concede 4 the next? Was it quite simply that Huddersfield were terrible, WBA brilliant and we played the same in both games?
Could it be that LJ couldn’t deal losing his team captains? Or did he simply not know his best side? He was a ‘tinker man’ but there must have been reasons for that. Sometimes it was forced due to injuries, but at other times I was left bemused. 
To me, it seemed crazy to keep picking O’Dowda and Massengo, but obviously LJ thought it to be the right thing. 
I’m just reflecting on what might have been - and why it didn’t happen  

[bcfcredandwhite]

Sorry mods - posted under ‘Transfer forum’ in error and can’t work out how to move it. 
Apologies - please could you either move or delete? 

[Davefevs]

It was the other way around....we got stuffed by West Brom, then beat Huddersfield, then beat Fulham...

...seems so long ago.

There are multiple reasons why, some will be good reasons, some will be coincidental and some will be bad reasons.

Up the Holden!!

[cidered abroad]

Four years? 

Wasted because he just didn't have a clue!

Please no more references to the Johnson dynasty.

@bcfcredandwhite

[Galley is our king]

18 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Four years? 

Wasted because he just didn't have a clue!

Please no more references to the Johnson dynasty.

@bcfcredandwhite

It's a City forum and people can post what they like.

Your choice is whether you read it or not.

[Red Skin]

I thought the players were burnt out playing that high pressing games after the cup run.  We didn't have the depth of squad to sustain it and performances fell away.

We seemed to buy well the following to give us depth, and I expected the same high press.

Korey got injured and we sold Bobby - two players key to the high press - and it seems to put end to the high press.  Either that or LJ didn't believe it could be sustained over a season.   

Real shame he lost his way really, as he really does care about the club. Undoubtedly his plans were hindered by players sales - losing Webster so late in the transfer window who was so crucial to how were were setting up play was another blow.

Onwards and upwards.  Some attacking football and players playing with freedom will be enough for me this season.  

[Davefevs]

17 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I thought the players were burnt out playing that high pressing games after the cup run.  We didn't have the depth of squad to sustain it and performances fell away.

We seemed to buy well the following to give us depth, and I expected the same high press.

Korey got injured and we sold Bobby - two players key to the high press - and it seems to put end to the high press.  Either that or LJ didn't believe it could be sustained over a season.   

Real shame he lost his way really, as he really does care about the club. Undoubtedly his plans were hindered by players sales - losing Webster so late in the transfer window who was so crucial to how were were setting up play was another blow.

Onwards and upwards.  Some attacking football and players playing with freedom will be enough for me this season.  

We did have some depth, we used it poorly though.  There were some injuries too, 

[Chappers]

Three consecutive top half Championship finishes, that’s actually pretty good based on past performance. However, for much of those 3 seasons we were top 6, but never at the right time, so that bit is disappointing. As ever with Lee, a very mixed bag, he leaves the club in a better position than when he arrived, so another positive, and the games against the Manchester teams are a terrific memory.

[Murraysrightplum]

Very good and very poor in equal measure

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Murraysrightplum said:

Very good and very poor in equal measure

Not sure about equal measure but we were definitely both. 

[Rich_s]

On 14/08/2020 at 19:52, bcfcredandwhite said:

Not another LJ thread I hear you say......

....

I think occasionally LJ got the recipe right and it showed in performances but the following week he forgot what the formula was and had to chop and change. Personally it's a shame all around because I think he wanted nothing more than seeing City successful but the lack of consistency after having years to impose his DNA on the club was too much and it was right that he had to go.

[Port Said Red]

I think he hit the point where he over thought things. Ironically I think his obsession with tactics would probably make him a better Manager in the Premier where he would probably have a team coming up against superior players, and would need to counter that with tactics.

I hope DH and the new guys will be looking to give the players a simple structure t and tell them to go and play.

[BigTone]

I agree with what is said about how he set up his teams at home but now I think its time to forget all that happened in the past and move forward.

[La Plage]

I don’t think depth of squad was the issue, bottom line he was out of his depth. Too many players, too many clubs in the bag, great coaches/managers set their teams up to win with the best they have bought, quality over quantity everyone knows their job/role and the rest is clear, Wolves played 60+ games with 20 capable and fit players this season with a savvy coach/manager, the same one LJ competed with 3 years ago!!!! 

[SBB]

Ultimately, he didn’t get the best out of the players he had at his disposal, whether that was through coaching, belief in him as a coach, his philosophy or down to his tactics. 

It’s a shame as personally I would have loved to see him take us up, with his links to the club as a player and of course, his old man.... but for whatever reason(s), he simply fell short.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I think he hit the point where he over thought things. Ironically I think his obsession with tactics would probably make him a better Manager in the Premier where he would probably have a team coming up against superior players, and would need to counter that with tactics.

I hope DH and the new guys will be looking to give the players a simple structure t and tell them to go and play.

Was sat there last night looking at a job advert from a pro club that dropped into my twitter timeline, lots of stuff about software like CoachPaint, etc.  I wasn’t looking for myself obviously, but it got me thinking back to LJ.

I reflected back on the excellent “Coaches Voice” videos we’ve seen during the manager search.  They were all basic “plastic counters” on a football pitch baize to explain their system(s).

Did he embrace the software and big screen a bit too much?

I will be interested to hear Holden speak about tactics and whether he references the big screen, or whether he’s a more traditional magnetic whiteboard man!

[Mad Cyril]

Too much analysis and complexity for players sometime.

Let's get back to names and formation on the back of a fag packet, with Lambert and Butler ripping the league a new one.

[Red Skin]

.

[Chivs]

On 14/08/2020 at 20:05, bcfcredandwhite said:

Sorry mods - posted under ‘Transfer forum’ in error and can’t work out how to move it. 
Apologies - please could you either move or delete? 

Ahem, mods! He did say "...or delete".  

[1960maaan]

Hmmmm LJ. Under him I saw some of the best football I've ever seen, saw the best finishes ( playoff under Dad apart) for decades and then..... some of the dullest, most turgid football, record breaking loosing runs and more formation changes than you could shake a stick at. Johnsons time was one of extremes . For my money he should have gone earlier, and I never understood the logic of the new contract, other than make a statement to the fans. When it comes to managers/coaches I'm quite pragmatic , I have no say in any appointment so I piss and moan like everyone, but as soon as the deal is done, what's the point. I look on what we've got and take it from there. 

I think one of Johnson's problems , was actually what I thought his strength would be. He was eager to lean and take up new ideas. Great I thought, except with so many new ideas he could never settle on one. We ended up where we couldn't even guess the system or formation, let alone name the players. Holden mentioned attacking, attractive football, that would be a big change, specially at home, and I hope he's good to his word. 
I'm guessing we will be continuing with the 3-5-2 (or variations of) as he said that's what suits our players. There's another difference, LJ had "trusted" players, and could play players regardless of what system we had set up.  So I don't see many coming in , other than replacing Fam if he goes I think maybe that MF we lack and I'd get Ashley Williams back as experienced cover.  hope the other surprises recruited turn out to be a master stroke, I don't think enough players have improved significantly under LJ, with luck this will change. 

The last time I was this underwhelmed with an appointment was, well Johnson, but before that Steve Cotterill and that turned out ok, so. 

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Too much analysis and complexity for players sometime.

Let's get back to names and formation on the back of a fag packet, with Lambert and Butler ripping the league a new one.

Ricky and Tony?

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We did have some depth, we used it poorly though.  There were some injuries too, 

We had a lot that year. Quite a few in the subsequent two seasons too though- let us hope Holden resolves this!

[RedM]

On 17/08/2020 at 00:13, Red Skin said:

I thought the players were burnt out playing that high pressing games after the cup run.  We didn't have the depth of squad to sustain it and performances fell away.

We seemed to buy well the following to give us depth, and I expected the same high press.

Korey got injured and we sold Bobby - two players key to the high press - and it seems to put end to the high press.  Either that or LJ didn't believe it could be sustained over a season.   

Real shame he lost his way really, as he really does care about the club. Undoubtedly his plans were hindered by players sales - losing Webster so late in the transfer window who was so crucial to how were were setting up play was another blow.

Onwards and upwards.  Some attacking football and players playing with freedom will be enough for me this season.  

Exactly this. Bobby and a couple of others shone and were sold. We never really got going again and the more players we bought the more we tinkered, I for one couldn’t predict his starting eleven from one game to the next. Players who had done well here dropped/rested and we tried something else, hence the frequent references to the Tombola.

I hope Holden quickly identifies a tighter team and the scatter gun approach, along with the favourites rule gets dropped.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, RedM said:

Exactly this. Bobby and a couple of others shone and were sold. We never really got going again and the more players we bought the more we tinkered, I for one couldn’t predict his starting eleven from one game to the next. Players who had done well here dropped/rested and we tried something else, hence the frequent references to the Tombola.

I hope Holden quickly identifies a tighter team and the scatter gun approach, along with the favourites rule gets dropped.

I mentioned that until last season LJ had made steady progress season on season despite having to sell most of his better players down to SLs ‘sustainability’ policy or ‘cake and eat it’ policy if you like......

it was pointed out to me that other clubs were also selling their better players and yet were doing pretty well - the Bees were used as an example and they reached the Championship play off final.

LJ achieved that steady progress started off with some decent football but gradually the quality of the play began to deteriorate to point where it could have been his father running the team.............

LJ lost his way and the pressure of reaching the promised land led to him searching for the answers - hence the ‘tombola’ accusation,

it was right that he eventually got sacked  

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Too much analysis and complexity for players sometime.

Let's get back to names and formation on the back of a fag packet, with Lambert and Butler ripping the league a new one.

With Benson and Hedges in defence and Wills in goal . 

[1960maaan]

23 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

With Benson and Hedges in defence and Wills in goal . 

With all these cigarette references, we could really do with a Bryant & May..... 

[SecretSam]

I could never get over how we would go on crazy good runs, then a run of terrible results.

My main takeaway was that during this tenure, we grew the foundations of the club - scouting, youth, training network - to match the quality of AG itself. And we made some spectacular money in the transfer market (Kelly, Bryan, Flint, Reid, Pack, Webster). All this whilst consolidating and improving (mostly) our league position.

But the end product - the performances on the pitch - fell away, which is such a shame, because we showed such promise early on.

I think it was time for a change, but I refuse to accept that Johnson was bad for the club - he certainly did far more to 'build' it than his father, for example (cue the haters).

Oh, and the football under Johnson senior was woeful by the end. 

[Rocky]

More of the analysis team (Head of) departing.

 

 

[IAmNick]

10 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I think one of Johnson's problems , was actually what I thought his strength would be. He was eager to lean and take up new ideas. Great I thought, except with so many new ideas he could never settle on one. We ended up where we couldn't even guess the system or formation, let alone name the players.

I agree. I think it showed with the times Lee talked about visiting various clubs, or organisations, or getting people in to talk to the players. He reminded me a bit of people I've known at work who when given responsibility then immediately want to change the world - they read a few blogs and books about what worked elsewhere and try and copy it. In moderation (and context) that's fine, starting to make change anywhere is easy - but getting it supported by the people who matter and getting it to stick is bloody hard work so you need to be very selective and measured in what you do.

With the players, I think sometimes Lee perhaps didn't appreciate the difference in the people he was working with compared with other clubs he'd visited, or the people in other areas of work he'd spoken to. I got the impression he wanted a team of highly intelligent players - in training he would teach them how to solve situations on the pitch themselves and then during a match expect them to tweak formations and positions on the fly with minimal input from him to fix things and win games. Perhaps that works if you have some very experienced, or top class players but I never got the impression it was never really working for us. I don't know if that's down to Lee or the players. Instead players frequently looked lost and Lee would wait far too long to change things, instead trying to make small tweaks (or let the players try) and poor performances were the result. I always assumed that was part of his "players I can trust" mantra.

As you said, I think he had good ideas (or was at least receptive to taking on good ideas) and perhaps if he'd focused on really instilling a much smaller number of them properly throughout the club so they were second nature he might have had more success.

[Cowshed]

On 17/08/2020 at 00:13, Red Skin said:

I thought the players were burnt out playing that high pressing games after the cup run.  We didn't have the depth of squad to sustain it and performances fell away.

We seemed to buy well the following to give us depth, and I expected the same high press.

Korey got injured and we sold Bobby - two players key to the high press - and it seems to put end to the high press.  Either that or LJ didn't believe it could be sustained over a season.   

Real shame he lost his way really, as he really does care about the club. Undoubtedly his plans were hindered by players sales - losing Webster so late in the transfer window who was so crucial to how were were setting up play was another blow.

Onwards and upwards.  Some attacking football and players playing with freedom will be enough for me this season.  

It was only in place for a couple of months. If players are burning out in a period of months the pre season conditioning work would have been abysmal. Injury is another thing if City did not have the depth of talent to play in that challenging manner =  They had bought poorly. Key skills did not meet team need.

That is an if you believe Mr Johnson ever intended to play for an extended period pressing high. I do not. Mr Johnson's hand was influenced by injury. When Famara was fit the high pressing was dropped for medium blocks and screening for years. Mr Johnson's prized striker did not have the defensive tactical intensity to do otherwise.

Mr Johnson lost his way quickly because he didn't have one. He stated in 2016 he wanted to put in place a playing identity throughout the club. Despite unparallelled resources and time in BCFC terms when he was finally relieved of his services the club had no sign of his fabled playing identity.