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IGNORED

Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh


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2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Can’t agree fella - the gap is massive.

I think we all sometimes forget that the Championship is the 5th biggest league in Europe.

Heard this many times but I'm not entirely sure where it came from or what it is based upon.

Attendances possibly ? But it certainly aint on quality.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Reading  through this,,i understand players develop at different rates, but if they are good young players, they ought to have already made a big impression by the time they are 23,, and also, its taken taylor moore 3 years or so of loans to hopefully come in and stake a claim,, thats a long time to wait when he only signed a 3/4 year contract when he came in. By the time him walsh,  elliasson are really ready they are running out of contract and looking to move on.

I think Taylor Moore was ready - but LJ made the decision to loan him out to Blackpool whilst Benkovic came in on loan from Leicester. Who then hardly played. All a bit puzzling. 

Moore certainly suffered from the "one loan too many" syndrome that was suggested by (I think) @Davefevs 

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6 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think Taylor Moore was ready - but LJ made the decision to loan him out to Blackpool whilst Benkovic came in on loan from Leicester. Who then hardly played. All a bit puzzling. 

Moore certainly suffered from the "one loan too many" syndrome that was suggested by (I think) @Davefevs 

Not dissimilar to what I’ve written in the loans piece I’ve drafted.

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Would still like to see us sign 4- 5 solid seasoned Championship players who have intelligence /  leadership qualities and play our younger players (or academy players) with / around them to learn / be mentored. 

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55 minutes ago, Fiale said:

Would still like to see us sign 4- 5 solid seasoned Championship players who have intelligence /  leadership qualities and play our younger players (or academy players) with / around them to learn / be mentored. 

I cant understand how we have such a big squad with so few who like to compete physically, and so few natural leaders?? 
 

was it a case of lj not wanting someone who would stand up to him?

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20 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I cant understand how we have such a big squad with so few who like to compete physically, and so few natural leaders?? 
 

was it a case of lj not wanting someone who would stand up to him?

I do wonder whether he wanted mirror images of himself....he must’ve forgotten that Big Marv did the dirty work.

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I’d argue 2 “leaders” have recently been released in Korey & Bailey Wright, plus although he gets a slating on here, Ashley Williams is a leader too, as is Tommy Rowe.

He signed 3 of those 4 & the other played under him at Oldham & was his captain here, so I think LJ was aware of the need to have them.

 

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7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’d argue 2 “leaders” have recently been released in Korey & Bailey Wright, plus although he gets a slating on here, Ashley Williams is a leader too, as is Tommy Rowe.

He signed 3 of those 4 & the other played under him at Oldham & was his captain here, so I think LJ was aware of the need to have them.

 

Korey is the obvious one, bailey has been either gone or on the way for the last year, and rowe only played when dasilva was injured. fam has turned into our talisman in defence and attack. Weimann is consistent and runs a lot, but isnt exactly bryan robson level of inspiration 
 

Compared to say leeds,, yes they were better than us, but the will to win, everyone leading by example, was just men vs boys compared to our lot, thats why they won it and we limped home in midtable i suppose.

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2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Korey is the obvious one, bailey has been either gone or on the way for the last year, and rowe only played when dasilva was injured. fam has turned into our talisman in defence and attack. Weimann is consistent and runs a lot, but isnt exactly bryan robson level of inspiration 
 

Compared to say leeds,, yes they were better than us, but the will to win, everyone leading by example, was just men vs boys compared to our lot, thats why they won it and we limped home in midtable i suppose.

Leeds had the highest possession in the division, they generally out footballed everyone but with a sound defensive structure too- had a big achilles heel with respect to finishing.

Who would you identify the overall 'leaders' in the Leeds side as? 

2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

In fact, unless football is made a non contact sport next season, where everyone politely stands back and applauds when you have the ball, as it stands we are going to have a real problem competing.

Or Brentford for that matter.

A big achilles heel for us last year may or may not have been leadership but I can identify a few tangible ones! Under LJ. 

Possession- Though this improved under Holden! 

This in turn hindered both the creativity and control, as well as the stability aspect.

Shots For- Feeds into possession, and is a key indicator that we don't create enough.

Shots Against- Some tactical elements in 'allowing' certain types or range of shots perhaps but again, may also feed into lack of possession hurting our stability. 

Shots on Target both For and Against- Similar principles. 

How much of this is down to leadership as set against say poor tactics etc?

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I do wonder whether he wanted mirror images of himself....he must’ve forgotten that Big Marv did the dirty work.

Elliott, I wonder how he'd have done these days given the shift from physique to technique and tactical sameness to wide variety at this level in the last decade or so.

Don't think his technical stats were the best but that said, he had a lot of attributes especially the first season.

On the flipside, might the changing tactical nature have suited LJ better now than then (in the right shape of course).

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3 hours ago, Fiale said:

Would still like to see us sign 4- 5 solid seasoned Championship players who have intelligence /  leadership qualities and play our younger players (or academy players) with / around them to learn / be mentored. 

Unsure the finances would allow that this summer. 2021 however!

This season at least, might be somewhat contingent on who we sell and for how much.

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I was thinking yesterday about where Walsh fits in. I would say probably box to box role. But however good he is on the ball, does he have the right attributes for that role for what Holden wants? Not so sure.

Deep lying playmaker may be another option. But Holden likes Bakinson, and has brought in Brunt. Williams can do either role too. Is it that Holden likes a taller holding midfielder in there than someone like Walsh.

I don't think Walsh can protect the defence like Bakinson can so I don't think that will be where Holden uses him.

Could be that he is sold or loaned out if we can't sell him along with a few others Holden won't be needing.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I was thinking yesterday about where Walsh fits in. I would say probably box to box role. But however good he is on the ball, does he have the right attributes for that role for what Holden wants? Not so sure.

Deep lying playmaker may be another option. But Holden likes Bakinson, and has brought in Brunt. Williams can do either role too. Is it that Holden likes a taller holding midfielder in there than someone like Walsh.

I don't think Walsh can protect the defence like Bakinson can so I don't think that will be where Holden uses him.

Could be that he is sold or loaned out if we can't sell him along with a few others Holden won't be needing.

I see Walsh & Williams fighting for a place against Pato & Weimann. Bakinson has to start for me.

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3 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

I see Walsh & Williams fighting for a place against Pato & Weimann. Bakinson has to start for me.

Yeah that's how I have seen things going with Brunt being back up to Bakinson. But just with the contract situation I am beginning to wonder if he may be going. I think Holden said he will sign one in the next couple of days, which was during Twentyman interview about a month or so back.

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10 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

I see Walsh & Williams fighting for a place against Pato & Weimann. Bakinson has to start for me.

 

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah that's how I have seen things going with Brunt being back up to Bakinson. But just with the contract situation I am beginning to wonder if he may be going. I think Holden said he will sign one in the next couple of days, which was during Twentyman interview about a month or so back.

With the emergence of Bakinson, paying out for Williams was perhaps unnecessary but only with hindsight. I see Nagy, Morrell, Palmer even Massengo being surplus to requirements now. Brunt will only will off the bench to help see out games like he did against Forest.

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15 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

 

With the emergence of Bakinson, paying out for Williams was perhaps unnecessary but only with hindsight. I see Nagy, Morrell, Palmer even Massengo being surplus to requirements now. Brunt will only will off the bench to help see out games like he did against Forest.

Williams does love to get forward so I think he could be quality for us box to box. Far better tackler and overall far better defensively than Weimann and Paterson, but is also very good at getting forward.

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Funny to think that at the end of last season (post lock down) and following their performances out on loan, many were thinking  that Walsh or. Morrell (or both) would make the difference in midfield. 

Now it seems that both will struggle to get a look in. 

It's a funny old game! 

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2 hours ago, downendcity said:

Funny to think that at the end of last season (post lock down) and following their performances out on loan, many were thinking  that Walsh or. Morrell (or both) would make the difference in midfield. 

Now it seems that both will struggle to get a look in. 

It's a funny old game! 

Yep, that’s football.  Long way to go this season.  Bakinson will more than likely plateau at some point.  He will get targeted by opponents like all new players who burst onto the scene.  He will probably need a spell out of the firing line.  If he doesn’t then he’s done very, very well.

We have a talented bunch of midfielders, who are flexible in the roles they can play.  Holden could probably pick any 3 and get a decent tune out of them.  I honestly think that Bakinson / Weimann / Paterson is just one way of playing it, and that just because he might change one or two of them, doesn’t mean he’ll expect the incoming player to fulfil the same role as the person they replace.  That is why I just call them the CM3.  I know Dean talks about 2x “number eights”, but I think that is borne out of who he’s playing there.  Even within the current CM3 Weimann and Paterson play their roles very different.

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On 18/08/2020 at 12:04, Davefevs said:

I do wonder whether he wanted mirror images of himself....he must’ve forgotten that Big Marv did the dirty work.

well i'm going to say it if no-one else will. I dont think either Morrell ( 5" 7"or  Walsh ( 5"6") are physically  able to compete at this level.

there you go. they're too small. i know it sounds reductionist but look at the general trend in sport. 

you'd have to be a maradona to make it at their size. no offence.

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8 minutes ago, Will Rollason said:

well i'm going to say it if no-one else will. I dont think either Morrell ( 5" 7"or  Walsh ( 5"6") are physically  able to compete at this level.

there you go. they're too small. i know it sounds reductionist but look at the general trend in sport. 

you'd have to be a maradona to make it at their size. no offence.

You’re not offending me....you’re perfectly entitled to your opinion.

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I'm sure DH said on RB that the new contract for Walsh was "done, yeh thats happening".

I thought given O'Leary and Viner deals were done, his would of been announced.

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27 minutes ago, Will Rollason said:

well i'm going to say it if no-one else will. I dont think either Morrell ( 5" 7"or  Walsh ( 5"6") are physically  able to compete at this level.

there you go. they're too small. i know it sounds reductionist but look at the general trend in sport. 

you'd have to be a maradona to make it at their size. no offence.

Like Davefevs, you are entitled to your view. However, I believe and hope that both Joe and Liam make it as regular starters, together, for Bristol City!

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I've been calling for us to have height in the midfield for a long time, but I think Bakinson offers that. If you added Williams to that trio the third one could be a smurf for all I care.

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