Messi hands in transfer request

[Lrrr]

37 minutes ago, Eastside Moonwalker said:

I just built my fantasy team, how much is messi gonna cost 

All of it

[bristolmoose]

On 17/08/2020 at 10:11, Leveller said:

Not genuine? City are certainly favourites to sign him!

Really? I'm pretty sure we aren't.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The fee is pretty prohibitive to any club if it has to be paid in full. 

Even if it's amortised over contract length, what would it be, 5 years? You're looking at £126m per year added to your annual costs before wages, agent fees any other payroll costs.

That's the bottom line, you'd be bound to fail FFP with UEFA.

If he was able to leave on a free then lots of clubs could perhaps afford him, in theory. However the release clause is there for a reason.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The fee is pretty prohibitive to any club if it has to be paid in full. 

Even if it's amortised over contract length, what would it be, 5 years? You're looking at £126m per year added to your annual costs before wages, agent fees any other payroll costs.

That's the bottom line, you'd be bound to fail FFP with UEFA.

If he was able to leave on a free then lots of clubs could perhaps afford him, in theory. However the release clause is there for a reason.

Some of those billionaire owners might not care too much. The chance to have Messi at the club might be too tempting. As we've seen, there are ways and means to get around FFP at the top level

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Some of those billionaire owners might not care too much. The chance to have Messi at the club might be too tempting. As we've seen, there are ways and means to get around FFP at the top level

Wasn't enforced correctly in some cases as under the old regime, UEFA need to be shithot tbh.

On a Devil's Advocate note, could Messi leaving in the medium term actually be good for Barcelona- reliance on Messi stifle others?

I wonder- they've spent quite a lot on players who are clearly talented- Coutinho, Dembele, Griezmann to name 3 but just hasn't worked out. Messi dependence, wonder how positive it is for a side.

[BigTone]

On 17/08/2020 at 11:11, Leveller said:

Not genuine? City are certainly favourites to sign him!

I can see another Engval situation in the making here.

[Portland Bill]

A really good read from a Barcelona fan.

http://www.barcelonafootballblog.com/27723/where-theres-messi-theres-hope-okay-so-now-what-no-idea/

[Lrrr]

50 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The fee is pretty prohibitive to any club if it has to be paid in full. 

Even if it's amortised over contract length, what would it be, 5 years? You're looking at £126m per year added to your annual costs before wages, agent fees any other payroll costs.

That's the bottom line, you'd be bound to fail FFP with UEFA.

If he was able to leave on a free then lots of clubs could perhaps afford him, in theory. However the release clause is there for a reason.

No ones paying that buyout clause its just too much, however I think Barca will settle for selling him ~100m given if he's forced to stay even if the president leaves he could still then activate the clause next May. Which is then very affordable.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wasn't enforced correctly in some cases as under the old regime, UEFA need to be shithot tbh.

On a Devil's Advocate note, could Messi leaving in the medium term actually be good for Barcelona- reliance on Messi stifle others?

I wonder- they've spent quite a lot on players who are clearly talented- Coutinho, Dembele, Griezmann to name 3 but just hasn't worked out. Messi dependence, wonder how positive it is for a side.

Perhaps but I think he's a once in a generation talent and if you can keep him then you do. I don't know the politics but it sounds like he has a lot of influence over the club overall which perhaps is less healthy.

[mozo]

As much as I would understand thir fans lamenting the end of a glorious era, I actually think it would benefit Barcelona for Messi to move on. 

They've got a ready made replacement in Griezmann who could finally play a role that suits him.

They've got Ousmane Dembele and Ansu Fati who are ready to join that attack.

De Jong is world class and needs to be the man pulling the strings in the middle.

Messi and Suarez leaving would free up a huge portion of their wage bill to enable FFP compliance. 

With a couple of hungry, energetic  signings, I reckon La Liga would be there for the taking.

Let go. Let him go.

[Portland Bill]

7 minutes ago, mozo said:

As much as I would understand thir fans lamenting the end of a glorious era, I actually think it would benefit Barcelona for Messi to move on. 

They've got a ready made replacement in Griezmann who could finally play a role that suits him.

They've got Ousmane Dembele and Ansu Fati who are ready to join that attack.

De Jong is world class and needs to be the man pulling the strings in the middle.

Messi and Suarez leaving would free up a huge portion of their wage bill to enable FFP compliance. 

With a couple of hungry, energetic  signings, I reckon La Liga would be there for the taking.

Let go. Let him go.

Have you watched Griezmann this season, he’s looked a shadow of the player he was. He has struggled to hold down a place in the side.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

Have you watched Griezmann this season, he’s looked a shadow of the player he was. He has struggled to hold down a place in the side.

I reckon that's because they've given him the wrong role. He needs Messi's position. There's no doubt he's world class.

[The Batman]

Those of you who have a grasp of football merchandise revenues. How much would Messi bring to a club in shirt sales. Presumably he and Ronaldo are still miles ahead of everyone else, but there are years worth of Messi names of Barcelona shirts.

Just as an example, I'm guessing that man utd are still the biggest club from a marketing view point (bar barca and real Madrid and I'm guessing he's not going there) so stick Messi 10 on a man utd shirt in Asia, throughout Europe and in South America, how much would it bring in? 

[Matthew me]

Good squad player. Don't think he'd improve us much.....

Joking aside, Bayern or PSG

[Phileas Fogg]

35 minutes ago, mozo said:

I reckon that's because they've given him the wrong role. He needs Messi's position. There's no doubt he's world class.

He’s obviously a great player but nowhere near Messi’s level in my opinion. He could fill the role but would ultimately be a downgrade.

[downendcity]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The fee is pretty prohibitive to any club if it has to be paid in full. 

Even if it's amortised over contract length, what would it be, 5 years? You're looking at £126m per year added to your annual costs before wages, agent fees any other payroll costs.

That's the bottom line, you'd be bound to fail FFP with UEFA.

If he was able to leave on a free then lots of clubs could perhaps afford him, in theory. However the release clause is there for a reason.

Not if you’re Man City!

[downendcity]

19 hours ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Harry Redknapp I expect

 

Harry’s Fax paper....

[downendcity]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Some of those billionaire owners might not care too much. The chance to have Messi at the club might be too tempting. As we've seen, there are ways and means to get around FFP at the top level

You don’t  mean we have to look forward to Rooney AND Messi’s Derby County! 

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He’s obviously a great player but nowhere near Messi’s level in my opinion. He could fill the role but would ultimately be a downgrade.

I remember some of the times when Messi has been injured Barcelona actually had a better record. The stats of other players like - Iniesta, Saurez, Neymar, Rakitic etc. massively improved too (and its not like they are not already impressive). There is no doubting that he (and Ronaldo) are a cut above but also a lot has to go through them and maybe thats not always best for the team overall. I'll try and find the articles I read but it was some time ago when he was injured for a while.

 

Edit: links to articles from periods Messi was injured:

BBC - link

ESPN - link

LiveMint - link

[Portland Bill]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

I reckon that's because they've given him the wrong role. He needs Messi's position. There's no doubt he's world class.

With respect, why would he have even thought about going there then, if that’s the only position he can shine in. There was never any chance that he would play the Messi role at Barca. 

[mozo]

48 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

With respect, why would he have even thought about going there then, if that’s the only position he can shine in. There was never any chance that he would play the Messi role at Barca. 

Well we're both hypothesising here. What is your alternative explanation for this world class player suddenly having an abject season? 

He hasn't had any issues with professionalism since one night out in Paris as a teenager. He looks in decent physical condition.

I think it's a tactical problem.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

With respect, why would he have even thought about going there then, if that’s the only position he can shine in. There was never any chance that he would play the Messi role at Barca. 

Here's one article that suggests Koeman agrees with me...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2020/08/21/fc-barcelona-coach-ronald-koeman-has-new-tactical-plans-for-antoine-griezmann-and-frenkie-de-jong/

[Portland Bill]

45 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well we're both hypothesising here. What is your alternative explanation for this world class player suddenly having an abject season? 

He hasn't had any issues with professionalism since one night out in Paris as a teenager. He looks in decent physical condition.

I think it's a tactical problem.

Definitely a tactical issue, also quite possibly buying a player that does not fit in to the team. At times Messi has started games in his old right sided position, with Griezmann playing as a 10, but it didn’t seem to work. So Messi ends up going into the middle. Griezmann didn’t often last more than an hour before being taken off. 

Atletico Madrid with Griezmann  sat in and counter attacked ( they still do)  which is the complete opposite of how Barcelona play the game, Griezmann shined at Atletico because their tactics suited his style, it’s clear that Barcelona’s style of football hasn’t suited Griezmann. 

There is also the adage that Thierry Henri talked about, saying that he had to completely relearn how to play the game when he joined Barcelona, and that some players just cannot adapt to playing the way that Barcelona do, they end up leaving and going to a side they can fit in with the style of football. 

 

[Portland Bill]

47 minutes ago, mozo said:

Here's one article that suggests Koeman agrees with me...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2020/08/21/fc-barcelona-coach-ronald-koeman-has-new-tactical-plans-for-antoine-griezmann-and-frenkie-de-jong/

Imo De Jong has been one of Barcelona’s best players this season, if Keoman can get more out of him then fair enough. Griezmann will clearly play further forward this season if Suarez is leaving. 

[phantom]

On 25/08/2020 at 22:09, jaydee=inspiration said:

Exactly......fake news hahaaa!!!

[soultrader]

On 26/08/2020 at 13:32, Mr Popodopolous said:

The fee is pretty prohibitive to any club if it has to be paid in full. 

Even if it's amortised over contract length, what would it be, 5 years? You're looking at £126m per year added to your annual costs before wages, agent fees any other payroll costs.

That's the bottom line, you'd be bound to fail FFP with UEFA.

If he was able to leave on a free then lots of clubs could perhaps afford him, in theory. However the release clause is there for a reason.

In reality it is there to boost the price come sale time.  In practise one of two things happen.  Either the players value has risen since the clause was agreed and so is now a fair price.  Or player simply relies on EU law to state that the price is prohibitive to him seeking employment.  So the club agree a lower fee, but use the clause as their bargaining chip

[soultrader]

On 26/08/2020 at 18:44, The Batman said:

Those of you who have a grasp of football merchandise revenues. How much would Messi bring to a club in shirt sales. Presumably he and Ronaldo are still miles ahead of everyone else, but there are years worth of Messi names of Barcelona shirts.

Just as an example, I'm guessing that man utd are still the biggest club from a marketing view point (bar barca and real Madrid and I'm guessing he's not going there) so stick Messi 10 on a man utd shirt in Asia, throughout Europe and in South America, how much would it bring in? 

Ive crunched the numbers.  After deducting taxes it's £49.79

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, soultrader said:

In reality it is there to boost the price come sale time.  In practise one of two things happen.  Either the players value has risen since the clause was agreed and so is now a fair price.  Or player simply relies on EU law to state that the price is prohibitive to him seeking employment.  So the club agree a lower fee, but use the clause as their bargaining chip

Thanks, makes some sense. Every player in La Liga appears to have one.

Is it prohibitive under EU law however? In one way yes, but the club and player agreed- and surely a buyout clause is in its way less prohibitive than football contractual arrangements in most countries where it's 'Meet the fee, or the player stays'. 

Think the idea of some of the top buyout clauses is a Hands Off warning in effect.

[soultrader]

On 28/08/2020 at 13:49, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks, makes some sense. Every player in La Liga appears to have one.

Is it prohibitive under EU law however? In one way yes, but the club and player agreed- and surely a buyout clause is in its way less prohibitive than football contractual arrangements in most countries where it's 'Meet the fee, or the player stays'. 

Think the idea of some of the top buyout clauses is a Hands Off warning in effect.

A friend who trained as a lawyer was telling me it was due to the fact that in effect the buy out clause restricts which clubs they can sign for.  It basically states that employers cannot have a contract which restricts your future chance of getting a job.   There was a case about 20 years ago.  If I remember the thing was that the value attributed could not be an astronomical amount.  But that was either Barca or Real.

 

Buy-out clauses are rarely used in Premier League contracts (in fact, we have not come across a contract where one is used). Much of the coverage in the press on buy-out clauses relates to Spanish player contracts, where a player’s right to buy-out his contract (whether at a price stipulated in a buy-out clause in his contract or set by a court) is codified in Spanish law.

On the continent, buy-out clauses are often set at thresholds far in excess of market value so as to act as a deterrent to any club on a spending spree, for example Cristiano Ronaldo’s is rumoured to be set at €1billion. There is no reason why a Premier League player contract could not contain a buy-out clause, but as the contract would be governed by English law, it would have to be drafted carefully so as to not fall foul of the prohibition on contractual penalties. This, coupled with the less efficient tax treatment of a transfer activated by a buyout clause (it involves two potentially taxable transactions - the transfer of funds from the buying club to the player and then the player to the selling club),

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, soultrader said:

A friend who trained as a lawyer was telling me it was due to the fact that in effect the buy out clause restricts which clubs they can sign for.  It basically states that employers cannot have a contract which restricts your future chance of getting a job.   There was a case about 20 years ago.  If I remember the thing was that the value attributed could not be an astronomical amount.  But that was either Barca or Real.

 

Buy-out clauses are rarely used in Premier League contracts (in fact, we have not come across a contract where one is used). Much of the coverage in the press on buy-out clauses relates to Spanish player contracts, where a player’s right to buy-out his contract (whether at a price stipulated in a buy-out clause in his contract or set by a court) is codified in Spanish law.

On the continent, buy-out clauses are often set at thresholds far in excess of market value so as to act as a deterrent to any club on a spending spree, for example Cristiano Ronaldo’s is rumoured to be set at €1billion. There is no reason why a Premier League player contract could not contain a buy-out clause, but as the contract would be governed by English law, it would have to be drafted carefully so as to not fall foul of the prohibition on contractual penalties. This, coupled with the less efficient tax treatment of a transfer activated by a buyout clause (it involves two potentially taxable transactions - the transfer of funds from the buying club to the player and then the player to the selling club),

Interesting. I must admit to me as a layman I thought it was another term for a release clause a la Matt Taylor but there`s a lot more to it than that obviously!