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IGNORED

Dean Holden on Sounds of the City Monday night


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Wow! What an interview.

Fair play to GT with the questions, and fair play to Dean with the Honesty, passion, and no BS buzz words.

Like others have said I was also pretty angry with the appointment, which I may add was more to do with the comment by SL about needing to freshen things up, and to get someone in to get us other the line. So appointing the guy who was second in charge to the guy who failed made no sense at the time.

As a Human :laugh: (bloody MA) I've always liked Dean and after hearing the interview, I can now see how this all fits in with him getting the job. Everyone has to start somewhere, just as Chris H would have.

Let's just hope the players don't let him down! Also a shout out to the Board for backing him in the Transfer Market.

So I'm wishing Dean, and all the new staff, all the best for this season, and hopefully he can make his Dad even prouder.

COYR.

 

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Good interview, easy to relate to him and he definitely "gets" what fans want to hear and see. You can't help but like the guy and I hope he is successful.

I think you can really see why players would want to run through brick walls for him and you get the feeling that if he did lose his s*** with them, they'd take notice. I might be wrong of course but I could never see that with Lee Johnson.

  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Good interview, really easy to relate to him and he definitely "gets" what fans want to hear and see. You can't help but like the guy and I hope he is successful.

I think you can really see why players would want to run through brick walls for him and you get the feeling that if he did lose his s*** with them, they'd take notice. I might be wrong of course but I could never see that with Lee Johnson.

I was pleased they touched upon the transition from coach to manager and how you manage that with players. Small but important things like calling him 'Gaffer' over 'Deano' etc.

This is a concern of mine. He comes across as a genuinely good man and I hope players don't take the piss and push boundaries. Perhaps that's part of the thinking of bringing in Downing and Simpson - two experienced heads who can help with the man management side.

I also wonder if that's part of the thinking behind recruiting Brunt. He knows Keith Downing well from West Brom and maybe he's the lieutenant or 'eyes in the dressing room' that the coaching staff want similar to Wade Elliot joining under Cotterill.

Holden doesn't really seem to have much of an ego, unlike Johnson who clearly did. This is quite a refreshing quality and will gain him plenty of goodwill from fans. He's reiterated time and time again in interviews that he is primarily a football fan and likes to think he knows what football fans want from a team. This is really important and something fans will like. 

In a nutshell - I think Johnson's style of management aimed to emulate a sophisticated foreign coach like Guardiola with elements of his father thrown in. Holden, whether by accident or design, seems more like a Klopp character. I really hope this works out - I like what I've heard in interview and am impressed with the backing he's received from the board. Looking forward for the season to start.

 

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Haven’t heard the interview yet, but it’s fascinating that many now accept DH could be a good appointment, while still resenting Ashton and the Lansdowns for making it!

Lets remember, they never said they were going to make an expensive high profile appointment - just that they were going to appoint someone who would freshen things up; and ultimately they decided DH is that man. They may have started out assuming a high profile guy would be the best choice but ended up persuaded by DH’s interviews. Let’s hope they are right.

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8 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Good interview, easy to relate to him and he definitely "gets" what fans want to hear and see. You can't help but like the guy and I hope he is successful.

I think you can really see why players would want to run through brick walls for him and you get the feeling that if he did lose his s*** with them, they'd take notice. I might be wrong of course but I could never see that with Lee Johnson.

  

 

 

I think that is true, and imho this is why he’s brought in Chris Brunt.  Don’t get me wrong, Brunt has been a top player, but at 35 he won’t be playing every week....but he will be on the training ground every day.  I think a big reason he’s been brought in is to be the Wilbraham off the pitch:

  • bring experience
  • Set the standards
  • police the players who’ve been used to cosy club, keep them in check

All the things Alby used to do to ensure a happy camp.  Stupid little things like ensuring no cliques can make a big difference.  These are things that the “management” can’t do without it feeling like they’re watching every move.  So you bring in a player who has been a model pro, played for years at the top level and internationally and you change the culture.

Id previously not quite got the Brunt signing, but you’ve triggered a thought that now helps me get my head around it.

@Phileas Fogg you beat me to it.

Edited by Davefevs
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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I was pleased they touched upon the transition from coach to manager and how you manage that with players. Small but important things like calling him 'Gaffer' over 'Deano' etc.

This is a concern of mine. He comes across as a genuinely good man and I hope players don't take the piss and push boundaries. Perhaps that's part of the thinking of bringing in Downing and Simpson - two experienced heads who can help with the man management side.

I also wonder if that's part of the thinking behind recruiting Brunt. He knows Keith Downing well from West Brom and maybe he's the lieutenant or 'eyes in the dressing room' that the coaching staff want. 

Holden doesn't really seem to have much of an ego, unlike Johnson who clearly did. This is quite a refreshing quality and will gain him plenty of goodwill from fans. He's reiterated time and time again in interviews that he is primarily a football fan and likes to think he knows what football fans want from a team. This is really important and something fans will like. 

 

I don’t agree with the stuff about LJs ego, or Davefevs comment about him trying to sound cleverer than the fans.

To me, he sounded like a guy from a non academic background who was desperately into self improvement and bought into a huge amount of theory about management etc. I think in many ways he had quite low self esteem and was trying to be a self educator to make up for a lack of formal education.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think that is true, and imho this is why he’s brought in Chris Brunt.  Don’t get me wrong, Brunt has been a top player, but at 35 he won’t be playing every week....but he will be on the training ground every day.  I think a big reason he’s been brought in is to be the Wilbraham off the pitch:

  • bring experience
  • Set the standards
  • police the players who’ve been used to cosy club, keep them in check

All the things Alby used to do to ensure a happy camp.  Stupid little things like ensuring no cliques can make a big difference.  These are things that the “management” can’t do without it feeling like they’re watching every move.  So you bring in a player who has been a model pro, played for years at the top level and internationally and you change the culture.

Id previously not quite got the Brunt signing, but you’ve triggered a thought that now helps me get my head around it.

@Phileas Fogg you beat me to it.

I think it's a mature management decision to bring in someone like Brunt if it's for this reason. Off the top of my head, I can't remember Johnson bringing in a high profile senior player (Wilbraham and Elliot both being high profile relative to League 1 standards) to do a role like this.

You see it quite often in many walks of life, in the workplace, in politics (look at our current cabinet!) etc - people at the top not proactively bringing in people that might show them up or threaten their position. Notice Johnson didn't proactively seek out an experienced coaching team either. 

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

I don’t agree with the stuff about LJs ego, or Davefevs comment about him trying to sound cleverer than the fans.

To me, he sounded like a guy from a non academic background who was desperately into self improvement and bought into a huge amount of theory about management etc. I think in many ways he had quite low self esteem and was trying to be a self educator to make up for a lack of formal education.

I liked Johnson and wanted him to do well, but in my opinion he did have an ego. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I think quite often to be a winner you need to have one - look at Cotterill. The point I was making is that this can get a bit grating and Holden will seem refreshing to fans with a very different approach that shows plenty of humility. 

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Things to like

Identifying a system and buying to it. We'd kinda worked this out, but man would it have been good for them to say this at the appointment time. Him explaining helps us understand. I wish the club would understand that.

Straightforward. Answered if he could, refused to before he talked to players about the captain, and said not my job which totally fair on contracts.

Part about his parents. It's good to have men being able to be emotional and be supported for it. Very important that. Healthy.

The board backing him and getting the coaches he wanted. That's huge, when people whine about the board and the backing they give I never understand,

No football contract offer for Ashley Williams!

He talked about Dean Smith and how he affected him, then displayed something he clearly learned from LJ. When he mentioned "KEY CONTRIBUTIONS" about Andy Weimann he kinda checked himself, he likes the idea as it's a good way to justify and validate selections and players, but clearly eye rolls at the term!

Geoff Twentyman. Yuck. Feels wrong saying that. Yuck. But he's good isn't he?

Things not to like

Him going to the beach during Lockdown. That's not great human behaviour! And if he expects others to follow rules, and respect him, he really can't be doing stuff like that. Also him mentioning it. Being honest is good, but also if he can't control what he says that's bad.

Throwing his mate who went off to Italy under the bus. Again, sometimes you have to be smart enough to keep quiet.

Thinking he'd bamboozle fans with his incredible tactical knowledge then saying if we have three centre halves vs one forward, he wants one of them to push up. God, I'm struggling with that one! What a revolutionary concept that pushes up against the boundaries of learning as we know it!

The club and communication. If you did a proper one on one interview and gave him the questions to let him explain himself and why he's going to be good for the job, I know people would have reacted better. I certainly would have. Instead they left it up to the journalists to ask inane questions and we got nothing out of it.

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19 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Haven’t heard the interview yet, but it’s fascinating that many now accept DH could be a good appointment, while still resenting Ashton and the Lansdowns for making it!

 

Sorry. I don't get that. 

I think people thought there were better options available (I did). That doesn't mean they necessarily thought DH couldn't possibly be successful and it's not Dean Holdens fault he was given the opportunity.

What's done is done. He's here now so fans are getting behind him and want him to do well. Nothing wrong with that.   

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19 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Things to like

Identifying a system and buying to it. We'd kinda worked this out, but man would it have been good for them to say this at the appointment time. Him explaining helps us understand. I wish the club would understand that.

Straightforward. Answered if he could, refused to before he talked to players about the captain, and said not my job which totally fair on contracts.

Part about his parents. It's good to have men being able to be emotional and be supported for it. Very important that. Healthy.

The board backing him and getting the coaches he wanted. That's huge, when people whine about the board and the backing they give I never understand,

No football contract offer for Ashley Williams!

He talked about Dean Smith and how he affected him, then displayed something he clearly learned from LJ. When he mentioned "KEY CONTRIBUTIONS" about Andy Weimann he kinda checked himself, he likes the idea as it's a good way to justify and validate selections and players, but clearly eye rolls at the term!

Geoff Twentyman. Yuck. Feels wrong saying that. Yuck. But he's good isn't he?

Things not to like

Him going to the beach during Lockdown. That's not great human behaviour! And if he expects others to follow rules, and respect him, he really can't be doing stuff like that. Also him mentioning it. Being honest is good, but also if he can't control what he says that's bad.

Throwing his mate who went off to Italy under the bus. Again, sometimes you have to be smart enough to keep quiet.

Thinking he'd bamboozle fans with his incredible tactical knowledge then saying if we have three centre halves vs one forward, he wants one of them to push up. God, I'm struggling with that one! What a revolutionary concept that pushes up against the boundaries of learning as we know it!

The club and communication. If you did a proper one on one interview and gave him the questions to let him explain himself and why he's going to be good for the job, I know people would have reacted better. I certainly would have. Instead they left it up to the journalists to ask inane questions and we got nothing out of it.

Given how honest and open Dean was, I struggle to see why you’ve been so sneering in your post in terms of things you don’t like.   The point about a back three playing against a single striker was well made and I certainly found it interesting.  My understanding was that his comment about going to the beach was that he was talking about the close season, when people were allowed to go to beaches (though maybe I’m wrong).  Your reference to ‘incredible tactical knowledge’ is demeaning and unworthy of a true City fan.  I like the fact that City fans have moved on from the management appointment and now seem to be united behind the new set-up.  Your continuing cynicism makes you the one out of step now, I fear.

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2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Given how honest and open Dean was, I struggle to see why you’ve been so sneering in your post in terms of things you don’t like.   The point about a back three playing against a single striker was well made and I certainly found it interesting.  My understanding was that his comment about going to the beach was that he was talking about the close season, when people were allowed to go to beaches (though maybe I’m wrong).  Your reference to ‘incredible tactical knowledge’ is demeaning and unworthy of a true City fan.  I like the fact that City fans have moved on from the management appointment and now seem to be united behind the new set-up.  Your continuing cynicism makes you the one out of step now, I fear.

I looked it up, I think the seminar he was referring to was this one on April 23rd, so yes he shouldn't really have done that. He didn't say which beach though - in theory it could've been one close to his house so who knows.

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8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I looked it up, I think the seminar he was referring to was this one on April 23rd, so yes he shouldn't really have done that. He didn't say which beach though - in theory it could've been one close to his house so who knows.

He was on holiday for a few days in Kent while the job farce was going on.

They announced just after he came back so no problems with him going to the beach at all re Covid restrictions.

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40 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Things to like

Identifying a system and buying to it. We'd kinda worked this out, but man would it have been good for them to say this at the appointment time. Him explaining helps us understand. I wish the club would understand that.

Straightforward. Answered if he could, refused to before he talked to players about the captain, and said not my job which totally fair on contracts.

Part about his parents. It's good to have men being able to be emotional and be supported for it. Very important that. Healthy.

The board backing him and getting the coaches he wanted. That's huge, when people whine about the board and the backing they give I never understand,

No football contract offer for Ashley Williams!

He talked about Dean Smith and how he affected him, then displayed something he clearly learned from LJ. When he mentioned "KEY CONTRIBUTIONS" about Andy Weimann he kinda checked himself, he likes the idea as it's a good way to justify and validate selections and players, but clearly eye rolls at the term!

Geoff Twentyman. Yuck. Feels wrong saying that. Yuck. But he's good isn't he?

Things not to like

Him going to the beach during Lockdown. That's not great human behaviour! And if he expects others to follow rules, and respect him, he really can't be doing stuff like that. Also him mentioning it. Being honest is good, but also if he can't control what he says that's bad.

Throwing his mate who went off to Italy under the bus. Again, sometimes you have to be smart enough to keep quiet.

Thinking he'd bamboozle fans with his incredible tactical knowledge then saying if we have three centre halves vs one forward, he wants one of them to push up. God, I'm struggling with that one! What a revolutionary concept that pushes up against the boundaries of learning as we know it!

The club and communication. If you did a proper one on one interview and gave him the questions to let him explain himself and why he's going to be good for the job, I know people would have reacted better. I certainly would have. Instead they left it up to the journalists to ask inane questions and we got nothing out of it.

My god you love to find faults and moan about anything and everything don't you. 

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19 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

He was on holiday for a few days in Kent while the job farce was going on.

They announced just after he came back so no problems with him going to the beach at all re Covid restrictions.

It's not a big deal to me personally but he talked about the beach in specific reference to a webinar he was doing with the coaching team which I think is the one I found from April 23rd. The holiday he went on was after.

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So do people want Holden here now who previously didn't? 

Genuinely interested to know.

Do I think he was the best available candidate on paper? Absolutely not.

Do I like what I've heard from him subsequently and have I been impressed with the signings? Yes.

Do I want to see how he gets on and give him a fair go? Yes.

I don't think it's a case of people 'wanting him here that previously didn't' because I doubt he's won anyone round that he's the most illustrious candidate. I do however get the impression people have warmed to him as a man and want to see what he can do. 

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So do people want Holden here now who previously didn't? 

Genuinely interested to know.

Moat of the people that didn't want Holden in charge was because of the comments of MA and SL and being linked to the likes of Chris Hughton and even Paul Cook. Holden seemed like the underwhelming choice and was just another yes man to MA. 

You're not going to change the hearts and minds of people with one interview, football ultimately is a results driven business if he does well he'll win around some fans but there will always be the ones waiting if results are bad to say "I told you he wasn't good enough". 

Was he my first choice for manager? No, his record at the management level wasn't exactly giving me confidence but I'm prepared to give him a chance. 

He's been saying the right things, bringing in the right kind of people and his signings have been brilliant. Whether people want him or not he is manager of Bristol City and we should all get behind him and the team. 

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12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Do I think he was the best available candidate on paper? Absolutely not.

Do I like what I've heard from him subsequently and have I been impressed with the signings? Yes.

Do I want to see how he gets on and give him a fair go? Yes.

I don't think it's a case of people 'wanting him here that previously didn't' because I doubt he's won anyone round that he's the most illustrious candidate. I do however get the impression people have warmed to him as a man and want to see what he can do. 

My current thoughts too. He seems to be growing into the role better than I expected so far, so i'm 100% happy to concede that to him.

But I see some fans getting carried away too, which is fine, but talk is cheap. Ultimately we need to see where we are after 10 games at least.

All the ingredients are there for, arguably, our best chance of a top 6 push, so i'll reserve a little bit of judgement for the results. 

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Dean won me over when I learnt about his personal background and the death of his daughter at 17 months. Having experienced having an ill child at birth my heart went out to him, to fight back from that I want the bloke to do well. Refreshing to hear last night no bullshit , don’t think he’s been media savvy almost dropped a swear word in a couple of times and you could tell he wanted to share with Twentyman who the new players were.

As like many felt he was the cheap option, but if he succeeds only benefits everyone 

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46 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So do people want Holden here now who previously didn't? 

Genuinely interested to know.

Want is a funny, or maybe awkward word to use. I'd still have preferred a Hughton or a Cook. However I like Holden a lot and really want him to do well.

Is that want? I'm not sure, but he's here now and has got my full support.

Edit: I just really hope we don't win the first two then have loads of "Where are all the Holden haters now???" threads on here (or the equivalent opposite situation). I'm so sick of that after the last few years, trying to constantly "one up" each other after people post perfectly fair support OR criticism of events/performances.

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23 minutes ago, Selred said:

My god you love to find faults and moan about anything and everything don't you. 

No. That's untrue. I don't moan about anything and everything. Your dishonesty is pointless. It really just hurts the forum as a whole. Lying about what people say and do adds nothing.

41 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Given how honest and open Dean was, I struggle to see why you’ve been so sneering in your post in terms of things you don’t like.   The point about a back three playing against a single striker was well made and I certainly found it interesting.  My understanding was that his comment about going to the beach was that he was talking about the close season, when people were allowed to go to beaches (though maybe I’m wrong).  Your reference to ‘incredible tactical knowledge’ is demeaning and unworthy of a true City fan.  I like the fact that City fans have moved on from the management appointment and now seem to be united behind the new set-up.  Your continuing cynicism makes you the one out of step now, I fear.

It was well made agreed. But it was hardly bamboozling. It's a light joke at his term and then what he came out with. He might have incredible tactical knowledge. I certainly wouldn't describe what he came out with as that though. So it is demeaning to the idea that that would bamboozle us, but that's not demeaning Dean Holden the man. You can criticise someones ideas without criticising the person.

Why do you fear me being out of step? Am I cynical if we use its meaning of sceptical? Yes. The alternative is blind faith. Zealotry. I think everyone should be sceptical and most people are. That's not out of step. And if it is, I'm not bothered by being out of step. That's not a problem for me if the step is a viewpoint where you can't be critical of anything.

I want him to do well. but that doesn't mean I like everything he does. For you, saying anything critical is not being behind him? For me I'm very different. I think you can definitely support someone while being critical of them.

I'm actually quite positive on him and where we're going, I'm more positive the more I hear. I think I made 5 things I liked directly from what he said and 3 I didn't. And there was nothing I didn't like when he talked about football which is the thing I really care about. I liked the point about the three centre halves, I didn't like that he thought it might bamboozle supporters. That's all.

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5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Want is a funny, or maybe awkward word to use. I'd still have preferred a Hughton or a Cook. However I like Holden a lot and really want him to do well.

Is that want? I'm not sure, but he's here now and has got my full support.

Edit: I just really hope we don't win the first two then have loads of "Where are all the Holden haters now???" threads on here (or the equivalent opposite situation). I'm so sick of that after the last few years, trying to constantly "one up" each other after people post perfectly fair support OR criticism of events/performances.

We will 100% have that sadly.

Anyone who says anything negative when we do well is not supporting.

Anyone who says anything positive if we lose a game is a happy clapper.

Unfortunately there are too many people who think in black and white.

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2 minutes ago, Prinny said:

We will 100% have that sadly.

Anyone who says anything negative when we do well is not supporting.

Anyone who says anything positive if we lose a game is a happy clapper.

Unfortunately there are too many people who think in black and white.

That is the biggest problem.

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57 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So do people want Holden here now who previously didn't? 

Genuinely interested to know.

If the man he is translates into results, then great, i think the majority of us on here had respect for dean, and for him to apply for the job was a no brainer for him. But it will all come down to results. 

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2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Want is a funny, or maybe awkward word to use. I'd still have preferred a Hughton or a Cook. However I like Holden a lot and really want him to do well.

Is that want? I'm not sure, but he's here now and has got my full support.

Edit: I just really hope we don't win the first two then have loads of "Where are all the Holden haters now???" threads on here (or the equivalent opposite situation). I'm so sick of that after the last few years, trying to constantly "one up" each other after people post perfectly fair support OR criticism of events/performances.

Yeah for me I wanted a few others but Holden was on my list as one I was happy with. And just thought well the club will have a better idea from the interviews.

I think the final 5 games showed he is very different to LJ. So for me he is a breath of fresh air. He seems nothing like LJ to me.

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13 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah for me I wanted a few others but Holden was on my list as one I was happy with. And just thought well the club will have a better idea from the interviews.

I think the final 5 games showed he is very different to LJ. So for me he is a breath of fresh air. He seems nothing like LJ to me.

I agree, especially with his mannerisms.

Being honest I was completely unimpressed and very disappointed with Holden as an appointment. That's totally separate to my feelings on him as an individual though!

If we lose the first three I'll have a grumble but give him until Christmas at least to form a proper opinion, unless the wheels have totally come off of course. He's certainly a lot easier to like than I ever found Lee, who I didn't warm to at all.

Personally I'm basing almost nothing off what we saw at the end of last season. I think there were too many contributing factors for it to indicate that much result/performance wise. I'm actually looking forward to this season for the first time in a while though, even if it's just because I know I'll be seeing something a bit different as you've said!

 

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I was underwhelmed by his appointment but that wasn’t really based on him but where I felt we were and what we needed.

But I absolutely, positively want Holden to smash it with us.

Speaking from experience, he gives me a sense from what I’ve seen and heard from him that he is a real ‘leader’; someone people will play for.

Thought it telling he spoke of his experience with Dean Smith were he saw how you can bring people together without belittling them or breaking them down; this is the type of approach you see from a lot of more successful coaches currently - the ‘old skool’ style has its place, but it’s a different environment now.

Very, very encouraging.

COYR

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Just finished listening and it seems I wasn't as impressed as others. There was certainly no "wow" factor for me and I didn't think the interview was "outstanding", it was just ok. 

There are many similarities with Keith Millen, not only the circumstances in which they've been given their first chance in management, but also that they are both lovely guys (outstanding human beings) and talk about football in a way that supporters can relate to. Unfortunately neither of those attributes necessarily translate into being a good football manager. Millen was an excellent number 2 who went on to have a very successful spell in that position at Palace, only time will tell if Holden is able to make the leap to head coach that Millen could not. 

A couple of things bugged me a little bit about his attention to detail, for example not knowing if we had an option on Mawson; I'd expect the head coach to be across that kind of detail, especially as the deal was very recently completed. It may demonstrate that he is 100% focused on being head coach and isn't going to get as involved in that side of things, perhaps... or it's just a reality that he will make some errors as he learns/grows into the job.

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4 hours ago, Kibs said:

Sorry. I don't get that. 

I think people thought there were better options available (I did). That doesn't mean they necessarily thought DH couldn't possibly be successful and it's not Dean Holdens fault he was given the opportunity.

What's done is done. He's here now so fans are getting behind him and want him to do well. Nothing wrong with that.   

You haven’t actually addressed the issue you quoted. People are beginning to feel that DH may be a good appointment after all; on the other hand there is very little credit being given to the people who appointed him. We don’t know if he’ll be successful, but if he is, perhaps some of the venom towards the board will eventually be withdrawn. It will be interesting to see.

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13 minutes ago, Leveller said:

You haven’t actually addressed the issue you quoted. People are beginning to feel that DH may be a good appointment after all; on the other hand there is very little credit being given to the people who appointed him. We don’t know if he’ll be successful, but if he is, perhaps some of the venom towards the board will eventually be withdrawn. It will be interesting to see.

What is there to give them credit about? He hasn't done anything yet has he?

I'm sure most people who criticized them for not appointing a more experienced/proven manager will be absolutely delighted to eat humble pie should Dean Holden get us in the top 6.  In the meantime I think people are just trying to get behind him whether they approved of the appointment or not, which is good to see.

Edited by Kibs
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