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1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Delighted for him to make his debut today, I work with a close relative of his & before this chap even knew that I was a fan he told me James has always wanted to play for City since he was a little kid & really is a massive fan of the club.

He told me that James had said to him once that he would rather not be a professional footballer if it meant playing for anyone else.

Whatever happens now he can say he has played for his club, something thousands of us never get to do.

Let’s hope today was his first of very many games for us.

Now THAT is amazing. What a feeling that must’ve been for him and all is family. Just brilliant   

Good luck playing for your club, James. What a privilege. 

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9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Delighted for him to make his debut today, I work with a close relative of his & before this chap even knew that I was a fan he told me James has always wanted to play for City since he was a little kid & really is a massive fan of the club.

He told me that James had said to him once that he would rather not be a professional footballer if it meant playing for anyone else.

Whatever happens now he can say he has played for his club, something thousands of us never get to do.

Let’s hope today was his first of very many games for us.

I saw him first about four seasons ago in under 23's and was impressed by how well he read the game and the way he seemed so comfortable on the ball. 

Pleased for him and hope that, if he is ready for Championship football, he gets some more appearances rather than being shunted out on loan like some other City midfielders!

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10 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I saw him first about four seasons ago in under 23's and was impressed by how well he read the game and the way he seemed so comfortable on the ball. 

Pleased for him and hope that, if he is ready for Championship football, he gets some more appearances rather than being shunted out on loan like some other City midfielders!

I'd be amazed if he is ready to be in front of all the midfielders we have right now.

He's unlucky that is the one position we have so many players. Too many.

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6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I saw him first about four seasons ago in under 23's and was impressed by how well he read the game and the way he seemed so comfortable on the ball. 

Pleased for him and hope that, if he is ready for Championship football, he gets some more appearances rather than being shunted out on loan like some other City midfielders!

Not sure why people are so quick to criticise our loan operations.

Certainly hasn’t done Reid, Bryan, Bakinson, Walsh, Moore, O’Leary, Pring, Vyner, Semenyo, Morrell etc any harm....

All of which have either gone on to better than us, are now competing for the first team here or continuing their development with decent loans ready to come back better. 

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7 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Not sure why people are so quick to criticise our loan operations.

Certainly hasn’t done Reid, Bryan, Bakinson, Walsh, Moore, O’Leary, Pring, Vyner, Semenyo, Morrell etc any harm....

All of which have either gone on to better than us, are now competing for the first team here or continuing their development with decent loans ready to come back better. 

My criticism (in some cases) is that spend too much time on loan, “one loan too many”, which in some ways is paying lip service to the pathway or buying in players that block the pathway.

BT does a fantastic job, but I do know he felt some players were ready but were sent out again.  I appreciate he's not the manager with his head on the block though.

Holden will have got lots of brownie points yesterday re Academy:

  • Vyner start
  • Semenyo bench, brought on, scored (not getting into SGS/Academy debate)
  • Morton bench, brought on
  • O’Leary bench
  • Morton bench

plus young players brought in:

  • Dasilva
  • Massengo
  • Moore
  • Bakinson, bench, brought on

Appreciate it was a LC game, players on international duty, but that selection will go down well.

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My criticism (in some cases) is that spend too much time on loan, “one loan too many”, which in some ways is paying lip service to the pathway or buying in players that block the pathway.

BT does a fantastic job, but I do know he felt some players were ready but were sent out again.  I appreciate he's not the manager with his head on the block though.

Yeah all fair points.

I think it's been a bit 'rock and hard place' for a while, when we were first promoted I don't think anyone would have minded us becoming a 'steady ship' mid table side, blooding youngsters along the way as long as we were never in serious danger at the wrong end of the table.

Then LJ came in and had us fairly swiftly challenging at the top end of the table, and it seems overnight we became a fan base who felt we were a 'big fish' and top six was the minimum requirement (not helped by LJ's tendency to talk us up before we'd achieved anything, and SL publicly saying top six was expected.

And I think it's pretty hard to reconcile the desire to bring as many young players through as possible, as quickly as possible, with the expectation of not being outside of the top six. Very difficult in fact, and the safer option has to be look to plug gaps in the squad with proven experience rather than potential.

I think SL's rhetoric has been telling in the last few weeks, it's obvious that it's not 'top six or sacked' for Holden - as it was for LJ - which I find slightly hypocritical but that's by the by. 

I think Holden will get a bit of a free pass this season with everything that's happened over the last few months, and it will probably give him a bit more leeway to introduce more potential over experience. Especially with no fans in the stadium to make their feelings known if things go tits up.

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11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Yeah all fair points.

I think it's been a bit 'rock and hard place' for a while, when we were first promoted I don't think anyone would have minded us becoming a 'steady ship' mid table side, blooding youngsters along the way as long as we were never in serious danger at the wrong end of the table.

Then LJ came in and had us fairly swiftly challenging at the top end of the table, and it seems overnight we became a fan base who felt we were a 'big fish' and top six was the minimum requirement (not helped by LJ's tendency to talk us up before we'd achieved anything, and SL publicly saying top six was expected.

And I think it's pretty hard to reconcile the desire to bring as many young players through as possible, as quickly as possible, with the expectation of not being outside of the top six. Very difficult in fact, and the safer option has to be look to plug gaps in the squad with proven experience rather than potential.

I think SL's rhetoric has been telling in the last few weeks, it's obvious that it's not 'top six or sacked' for Holden - as it was for LJ - which I find slightly hypocritical but that's by the by. 

I think Holden will get a bit of a free pass this season with everything that's happened over the last few months, and it will probably give him a bit more leeway to introduce more potential over experience. Especially with no fans in the stadium to make their feelings known if things go tits up.

I broadly agree, but think if we are bottom half Holden will be replaced next season.

And certainly will if we are fighting relegation at Christmas 

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1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

May I ask when you last saw him play?

Not seen him play at all for about 2 years.

Went to FGR game last season but unfortunately he was on the bench.

Unless he has improved a lot from league two player to being better than many we have now, i'd loan him out again.

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32 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Not seen him play at all for about 2 years.

Went to FGR game last season but unfortunately he was on the bench.

Unless he has improved a lot from league two player to being better than many we have now, i'd loan him out again.

Was that when he was at Bath C?  Or our u23s?

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2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I think SL's rhetoric has been telling in the last few weeks, it's obvious that it's not 'top six or sacked' for Holden - as it was for LJ - which I find slightly hypocritical but that's by the by. 

It’s not hypocritical for SL to give a new manager more than a season to make overall progress on the previous. It wasn’t top 6 or sacked For LJ in his first season.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Maybe we should send the top loanees out for 3 or 6 months only so that the carrot at the end of the stick is coming back and joining the squad (if they do the business).

The stupid loan rules only allow for full or half season loans. In an ideal world we`d loan someone out to League 2 say, they tear it up for two months and we recall them and they go to League 1 or come back to us and are in the squad.

Still, we`re just fans who go every week, what do we know?

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1 minute ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

The stupid loan rules only allow for full or half season loans. In an ideal world we`d loan someone out to League 2 say, they tear it up for two months and we recall them and they go to League 1 or come back to us and are in the squad.

Still, we`re just fans who go every week, what do we know?

Good point! Half season works better for Semenyo I reckon. Say to him, score 10 goals (and perform) and you're back in the City squad.

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18 hours ago, GrahamC said:

He told me that James had said to him once that he would rather not be a professional footballer if it meant playing for anyone else.

Just saw an interview from his time at Forest Green, one of the questions was "if you could play for any club, who would it be?"

His answer was Manchester United.

So... not sure everything you were told is entirely true.

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1 hour ago, real_bristol said:

It’s not hypocritical for SL to give a new manager more than a season to make overall progress on the previous. It wasn’t top 6 or sacked For LJ in his first season.

Yes and no.

IMO the expectation shouldn't necessarily change because of who the manager is. You wouldn't appoint Hughton and say that 12th was acceptable, so if you're willing to say that to Holden, then by definition it's hypocritical. The squad is the same quality no matter who is coaching them.

So if you're saying that 6th with this squad is required for Hughton and 12th is OK with this squad for Holden - all else being equal - you're essentially admitting that you've not appointed the best man for the job.

Which calls into question Dean being the "outstanding candidate" we were led to believe.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want Holden sacked for not making the top six, but once again the noises we make in public (whether LJ "Europa League in 5 years / let's see who's laughing at the end of the season" or SL "we want to appoint a top quality, proven manager") will come home to roost and bite us on the backside. 

SL gave it the big one on TalkSport and then did the complete opposite of what he said he'd do, and now is saying that he doesn't set ultimatums (despite LJ's departure clearly being because we didn't finish in the top six....) 

Perhaps hypocritical is the wrong term, but certainly a case of what he says and what he does not always agreeing.

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On 06/09/2020 at 10:07, BRISTOL86 said:

Yes and no.

IMO the expectation shouldn't necessarily change because of who the manager is. You wouldn't appoint Hughton and say that 12th was acceptable, so if you're willing to say that to Holden, then by definition it's hypocritical. The squad is the same quality no matter who is coaching them.

So if you're saying that 6th with this squad is required for Hughton and 12th is OK with this squad for Holden - all else being equal - you're essentially admitting that you've not appointed the best man for the job.

Which calls into question Dean being the "outstanding candidate" we were led to believe.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want Holden sacked for not making the top six, but once again the noises we make in public (whether LJ "Europa League in 5 years / let's see who's laughing at the end of the season" or SL "we want to appoint a top quality, proven manager") will come home to roost and bite us on the backside. 

SL gave it the big one on TalkSport and then did the complete opposite of what he said he'd do, and now is saying that he doesn't set ultimatums (despite LJ's departure clearly being because we didn't finish in the top six....) 

Perhaps hypocritical is the wrong term, but certainly a case of what he says and what he does not always agreeing.

I see what you’re saying. I don’t think you can just roll the target on from manager to manager though. All of them need time, Hughton, Holden, Ferguson :laugh:. If Dean has been given 12th as his target then I’d have thought Hughton would have had the same. None of us can prove anything different.

 I remember Lansdown sticking with LJ when we had that bad run a few seasons back, he said he learnt his lesson from changing the manager too quickly. I like to think that’s why Dean has 12th as the target, he’s being given time to rebuild... I hope

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On 06/09/2020 at 18:33, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

The reality is though that expectations are determined by experience. It is not hypocritical to give different managers different goals based on those expectations but it might be deemed unfair. 

Completely agree, but as @BRISTOL86 puts it, by that definition are you not suggesting that Dean Holden was not the best candidate for the job?

Unless Kee left us in such a mess that any other candidate could not have achieved 6th or higher either?

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