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Bat Fastard
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1 minute ago, Taz said:

Let me put this to you, as once again you've gone around the houses and avoided answering the original question(s) put to you.

As we plan all of our transfer windows ahead of time (2 or 3 ahead) why have we just gone through an entire transfer window, knowing full well we had no left back, or left sided players to fill in at that position before it opened and closed, but didn't recruit for that position at all?

In the meantime we bring in Lansbury who is an attack minded midfielder and will be on a fairly large wedge, so lack of money for wages obviously weren't an issue.

 

Maybe we didn't want to have six left backs and thought that some of the injury problems would resolve themselves in time to influence the season.  I have no deep knowledge of the inner workings on the training ground, but that would seem logical.  We have lacked experience in midfield.  If had been down to me, I would have extended the stay of Korey Smith.  Clearly we have some good young players coming through - but just not fully ready yet.

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13 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK - but would any other manager be able to do any better with half a squad and no potential to recruit replacements?

It would be reasonable to expect any Manager or coach in the timescale Mr Holden has had to start putting in obvious elements of his front foot football in and out of possession. The Tombola is reflective of Mr Johnson. He was number two there, the new number one was meant to be different.

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20 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Many of the injuries are simply down to bad luck. O'Dowda was playing a blinder when he got injured. Tommy Rowe was playing OK and even Mawson was not too bad.  The injury to Dasilva has been a long standing issue.  Baker, Martin are bad hamstrings and Williams and Walsh were clearly problematic.  Investigations are clearly ongoing but that does not solve the immediate problem.  Criticism without a solution seems harsh.  It has been like watching a car crash in slow motion and people saying "he shouldn't have done that".  Many on here remind me of the (if I recall correctly) the Harry Enfield character who would say " he didn't want to do that".  None of these responses are helpful if they simply load more pressure onto the beleaguered staff and players. I'm sure they know what the problems are.

I’m not going to go round in circles again with you - they may well know what the problems are, but how much have they compounded them and are they capable of solving them.

We are critical because a) it’s a football fans forum and b) we are debating our doubts that they are the most capable available to find solutions. 

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1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

I’m not going to go round in circles again with you - they may well know what the problems are, but how much have they compounded them and are they capable of solving them.

We are critical because a) it’s a football fans forum and b) we are debating our doubts that they are the most capable available to find solutions. 

We are where we are. No wishing or debating can change that.

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21 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK - but would any other manager be able to do any better with half a squad and no potential to recruit replacements?

Yes, that's the issue. When you're lacking in players you need to adapt, Holden has shown he doesn't have that experience in his locker, an experienced manager would be able to tactically get the best out of his players just as many managers have in the past. 

The best managers can take what they have and get the best out of it, Holden is like a kid who's been given a puzzle that he just can't get his head around and is further hamstringed by Ashton who isn't giving him all the pieces but instead feeding him the bits he wants to. 

Holden is massively out of his depth, a confident, experienced manager would have the tools to create a tactical plan based on what he has available, Holden just seems to put out what he thinks may work and hope for the best. 

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

It may well be the case that younger players are making great progress under the current coaching staff and that it is the massive injury list that is the problem.  These are experienced and talented people and will have an overall plan in mind. This appears to have been blow off course by the injuries.  Lets just hope we can get over the line and stay up and go again next year.

Well let’s hope they are doing something positive with the younger ones!  

I’d (maybe wrongly) assumed they were being brought in to help support Dean in 1st team matters and if so, it would appear they’re failing dismally.

I admire your optimism matey, as you seem to keep assuming all staff employed by our club are at the very least, good at what they do, or maybe even experts.  

Evidence would seem go suggest that what we actually have is a disfunctional group who couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery.

 

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Just now, Alessandro said:

Well if that’s your attitude, it begs the question, what are you doing on a fans forum designed for football debate?

I come on here less these days because it tends to be that people compete to be as negative as possible and soon resort to sackings as the only remedy.  Businesses and football teams are built either with lots of investment or by organic growth. We are not permitted under the rules to expect SL to use his vast wealth to give us instant gratification and so we must build.  Continually tearing down the old management and replacing it with new people in the hope that you might do better next time usually leads to squads chosen by multiple managers and players who have to be moved on for a variety of reasons. This cannot build a really settled squad and certainly not an enterprise decicated to building by developing youth.  We have a little local difficulty and there is no need to turn a drama into a crisis.

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9 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Well let’s hope they are doing something positive with the younger ones!  

I’d (maybe wrongly) assumed they were being brought in to help support Dean in 1st team matters and if so, it would appear they’re failing dismally.

I admire your optimism matey, as you seem to keep assuming all staff employed by our club are at the very least, good at what they do, or maybe even experts.  

Evidence would seem go suggest that what we actually have is a disfunctional group who couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery.

 

Optimism or realism - you choose.  With the current staff injury list - would a new manager be guaranteed to succeed.  If he lost his first three matches, the forum would be demanding his sacking. Then we are on to rinse and repeat. It would cost a packet and we are already constrained by the financial fair play rules.

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK - but would any other manager be able to do any better with half a squad and no potential to recruit replacements?

So what you are really saying, there is no difference between managers,

Would be a waste of money going to get Cook or Pearson and seeing if the experience of setting up and motivating teams can avoid the drop

We are doomed because Paul Daniels is dead

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1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I come on here less these days because it tends to be that people compete to be as negative as possible and soon resort to sackings as the only remedy.  Businesses and football teams are built either with lots of investment or by organic growth. We are not permitted under the rules to expect SL to use his vast wealth to give us instant gratification and so we must build.  Continually tearing down the old management and replacing it with new people in the hope that you might do better next time usually leads to squads chosen by multiple managers and players who have to be moved on for a variety of reasons. This cannot build a really settled squad and certainly not an enterprise decicated to building by developing youth.  We have a little local difficulty and there is no need to turn a drama into a crisis.

Out of interest do you think Holden and his two assistants were the right appointment last year?
Nobody wants to keep tearing down the management and keep on replacing but when it clearly isn’t working and the man at the helm unfortunately has ZERO managerial experience at this level what choice are you left with? 

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1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So what you are really saying, there is no difference between managers,

Would be a waste of money going to get Cook or Pearson and seeing if the experience of setting up and motivating teams can avoid the drop

We are doomed because Paul Daniels is dead

If we had chosen a Cook or a Pearson, I would have been suggesting that we gave the person more time to try to fistly survive the current injury crisis and secondly to implement the game plan. We have chosen a good guy and he did not become useless overnight - he has just lost a huge chunk of his playing staff.

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1 minute ago, bris red said:

Out of interest do you think Holden and his two assistants were the right appointment last year?
Nobody wants to keep tearing down the management and keep on replacing but when it clearly isn’t working and the man at the helm unfortunately has ZERO managerial experience at this level what choice are you left with? 

I was open minded because Mark Ashton and the board had the time to consider the matter carefully and look at it from all angles.  We cannot have known what went into that choice, so in my opinion we simply get behind the chosen man and support.  Many managers would not choose to work in the kind of structure (rightly in my opinion) demanded by SL.  There is plenty of experience in the management team.  They cannot magic injured players back onto the pitch though.

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3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I have always thought that clubs sack managers too easily. If they see that the chap has a good plan, then give him time for it to work.  Dean obviously has the necessary qualities because the people who know him really well have faith in him.  Then you must consider his current list of difficulties. I judge him on what he has in terms of quality - other seem to condemn him because of his injury crisis. Injuries pass - he will be a better manager for all this tough experience.  Hold hard I say!

Obviously?

And just because people have faith in you doesn’t me@n you have the necessary qualities does it?

What qualities are you seeing, or are they just perceived qualities?

I think many, many, many, many, posters have given him slack for injuries, so why do you keep coming back to that?  That excuse (of yours not Dean’s) has been done.  We are now beyond injuries.

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4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If we had chosen a Cook or a Pearson, I would have been suggesting that we gave the person more time to try to fistly survive the current injury crisis and secondly to implement the game plan. We have chosen a good guy and he did not become useless overnight - he has just lost a huge chunk of his playing staff.

not sure what he's done to show he's been impressive , so dont know how he suddenly became useless. I blame SL for all of this. After LJ left the board "talked big" and "big names" were bandied about. They talked of ambition....and then appointed Holden (much to everyones astonishment). 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously?

And just because people have faith in you doesn’t me@n you have the necessary qualities does it?

What qualities are you seeing, or are they just perceived qualities?

I think many, many, many, many, posters have given him slack for injuries, so why do you keep coming back to that?  That excuse (of yours not Dean’s) has been done.  We are now beyond injuries.

Because facts a stubborn things - they do not go away.  I do not know Dean but have faith that the talented and experienced people on the board would have used their best judgement to pick the right man for the job.  I am not able to influence that or anything else in the running of the club. In my humble position as a lifelong fan and supporter, all I can do is offer my support.  Always.  Mind you, Pulis did have me reaching for the sick bag!

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

It would be reasonable to expect any Manager or coach in the timescale Mr Holden has had to start putting in obvious elements of his front foot football in and out of possession. The Tombola is reflective of Mr Johnson. He was number two there, the new number one was meant to be different.

You make it sound like “The Prisoner” and maybe that’s what DH is, but the plot lines of that show were probably easier to follow than the Bristol City team selection process, and that’s saying something!

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2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If we had chosen a Cook or a Pearson, I would have been suggesting that we gave the person more time to try to fistly survive the current injury crisis and secondly to implement the game plan. We have chosen a good guy and he did not become useless overnight - he has just lost a huge chunk of his playing staff.

You call him a good guy, sure he is a very nice man, but where can you point to that he has any proven experience in doing the job he now has?

FWIW, he chucked his hat in the ring for the job, given it I think more down to circumstance of covid and the club seeing it as a low risk option. But unfortunately he has not been able to deliver and we will not know if he could of with a fully fit squad. Without getting rather boring and repeating my self, its not about the losing, or not getting in the play offs, I understand the injuries and the affect on not being able to rotate squad players and if it was purely down to that I would understand the your reasoning and probable agree as I am not one for changing managers / coaches. The simple obvious fact he is out of his depth with no clue how to set the side up or tactically what to do and worse it would seem by actions on the pitch the players also think that and just waiting until he is removed.

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1 minute ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

not sure what he's done to show he's been impressive , so dont know how he suddenly became useless. I blame SL for all of this. After LJ left the board "talked big" and "big names" were bandied about. They talked of ambition....and then appointed Holden (much to everyones astonishment). 

We simply do not know what went into that decision.  We are not decision makers we are fans, and our job is to support our club and our team rather than to criticise things that are unknown to us.  What if the experienced managers did not want to work in our plan of developing youngsters but thought they could go to the interview and change the whole ethos of the club?

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9 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If we had chosen a Cook or a Pearson, I would have been suggesting that we gave the person more time to try to fistly survive the current injury crisis and secondly to implement the game plan. We have chosen a good guy and he did not become useless overnight - he has just lost a huge chunk of his playing staff.

My concern at the moment is that it just isn't clear to me what the gameplan is we are trying to implement. I can understand the injuries and the disruption around COVID and I think I would be far more sympathetic if I felt I could see what Holden was trying to do but that form, fitness or players that Holden had inherited were making it hard for him to implement that game plan in practice but I honestly don't even understand from our performances what it is we are trying to do, and I see no evidence to suggest that the players do either. 

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2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

You call him a good guy, sure he is a very nice man, but where can you point to that he has any proven experience in doing the job he now has?

FWIW, he chucked his hat in the ring for the job, given it I think more down to circumstance of covid and the club seeing it as a low risk option. But unfortunately he has not been able to deliver and we will not know if he could of with a fully fit squad. Without getting rather boring and repeating my self, its not about the losing, or not getting in the play offs, I understand the injuries and the affect on not being able to rotate squad players and if it was purely down to that I would understand the your reasoning and probable agree as I am not one for changing managers / coaches. The simple obvious fact he is out of his depth with no clue how to set the side up or tactically what to do and worse it would seem by actions on the pitch the players also think that and just waiting until he is removed.

Those are your opinions - mine are different.  I do not necessarily believe that he is clueless but I do believe that he has very few options to change things on the pitch.

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10 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

If we had chosen a Cook or a Pearson, I would have been suggesting that we gave the person more time to try to fistly survive the current injury crisis and secondly to implement the game plan. We have chosen a good guy and he did not become useless overnight - he has just lost a huge chunk of his playing staff.

If we had appointed either of those two, we wouldn’t have an injury crisis.

Fitness, medics, analysts and Ashton would have all gone. 

We wouldn’t have signed ageing and injury-prone players, our training methods, medical treatments would have been different and we wouldn’t have someone who overplays players until they drop.

It would have been.... what’s the phrase? .....I know........ ‘a breath of fresh air’. 

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2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

My concern at the moment is that it just isn't clear to me what the gameplan is we are trying to implement. I can understand the injuries and the disruption around COVID and I think I would be far more sympathetic if I felt I could see what Holden was trying to do but that form, fitness or players that Holden had inherited were making it hard for him to implement that game plan in practice but I honestly don't even understand from our performances what it is we are trying to do, and I see no evidence to suggest that the players do either. 

He clearly does not have the width in the team to give the crosses needed by the forwards. We do not have searing pace in the team and they are tired. Look at Jack Hunt!  Dean has very limited options, in my humble opinion.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously?

And just because people have faith in you doesn’t me@n you have the necessary qualities does it?

What qualities are you seeing, or are they just perceived qualities?

I think many, many, many, many, posters have given him slack for injuries, so why do you keep coming back to that?  That excuse (of yours not Dean’s) has been done.  We are now beyond injuries.

It’s an easy “out” Dave and means you don’t actually have to bother looking at the rest of the evidence which is quite damning - as they say, the truth hurts.

All these injuries for example - was our team any stronger (on paper) during our little run at the start of the season? Not really. If so, it’s marginal. There is more than enough in what we have available to regularly pick up points and actually look like a team of coached professionals. 
 

I think someone pointed out the other day that if you took our form over the last 25 games, we’d be bottom 4. That itself should be ringing major alarm bells. 

Then you have the horrific statistics in terms of the number of chances we create/shots we have to the number we concede. It’s frighteningly poor. Again, bottom of the league stuff. 

And all if this before we even really begin to pull apart the complete lack of a game-plan, lack of consistency , a lack of basic organisation of the team etc. They look like they have no idea. 

Have the injuries had an impact? Of course. But do they justify what we are seeing on the pitch which is backed up by the embarrassing statistics? Not a chance.

That is down to inadequate coaches I’m afraid. 

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4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Because facts a stubborn things - they do not go away.  I do not know Dean but have faith that the talented and experienced people on the board would have used their best judgement to pick the right man for the job.  I am not able to influence that or anything else in the running of the club. In my humble position as a lifelong fan and supporter, all I can do is offer my support.  Always.  Mind you, Pulis did have me reaching for the sick bag!

You’re not using facts at all.  Please give me the facts behind your rationale?

You’ve said it, you’re using “faith”, hope, more like blind faith imho.  You are following your heart, and probably your decency as a person to cloud what’s going on.

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5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Because facts a stubborn things - they do not go away.  I do not know Dean but have faith that the talented and experienced people on the board would have used their best judgement to pick the right man for the job.  I am not able to influence that or anything else in the running of the club. In my humble position as a lifelong fan and supporter, all I can do is offer my support.  Always.  Mind you, Pulis did have me reaching for the sick bag!

You keep mention ‘talented’ people at the club and now use that reference to the board.  

How has the board’s history with this shambles of a club actually proved they have any talent whatsoever at running a football club??

I’m intrigued

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2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

If we had appointed either of those two, we wouldn’t have an injury crisis.

Fitness, medics, analysts and Ashton would have all gone. 

We wouldn’t have signed ageing and injury-prone players, our training methods, medical treatments would have been different and we wouldn’t have someone who overplays players until they drop.

It would have been.... what’s the phrase? .....I know........ ‘a breath of fresh air’. 

You cannot know any of those things.  Mark Ashton is the hands on guy in charge because SL does not want to be in that role and lives on Guernsey.  That would not change unless by a like for like replacement or Jon stepping up.

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The return of the selection Tombola suggests that DH doesn’t have a plan of playing and has little idea of how to get one other than trying different combinations in the hope that with one of them he might strike lucky. Injuries won’t have helped but you can’t blame the players for being confused given that appears to be what’s happening. And when teams are playing badly even the form of those who had been looking good is dragged down, which is clearly what we are seeing. All we need now is Bentley’s form to dip significantly like it did in the second half of last season and we could be in a lot more trouble very quickly.

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