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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

How about:

O’Leary

Sessegnon / Vyner / Moore / Rowe

Nagy / Brunt / Palmer / Eliasson

Semenyo / Diedhiou

I actually thought it was that for a while, or with eliasson a bit higher and a 433.

Eliasson didn’t seem to come back as deep as SS either through design or otherwise.

the back 3 seemed very stretched across the pitch to be a 3 and Rowe was playing quite wide. Moore was stepping into midfield with the ball which you wouldn’t normally expect from the central of a 3.

I don’t know if dean tried to be clever in the first 20 minutes or so, or if it just didn’t go to plan due to Villas pressure.

Hard to be too critical I guess, that’s 8? Changes from Saturday and far from our best 11. Semenyo looked positive, should have scored maybe. Max did himself proud and Bakinson looked good again when he came on

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33 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I actually thought it was that for a while, or with eliasson a bit higher and a 433.

Eliasson didn’t seem to come back as deep as SS either through design or otherwise.

the back 3 seemed very stretched across the pitch to be a 3 and Rowe was playing quite wide. Moore was stepping into midfield with the ball which you wouldn’t normally expect from the central of a 3.

I don’t know if dean tried to be clever in the first 20 minutes or so, or if it just didn’t go to plan due to Villas pressure.

Hard to be too critical I guess, that’s 8? Changes from Saturday and far from our best 11. Semenyo looked positive, should have scored maybe. Max did himself proud and Bakinson looked good again when he came on

Watching live that was my big observation....we didn’t shift across the pitch in relation to the ball quick enough and importantly as a unit.

Would’ve love to watch it again but from my position in the LS.

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9 hours ago, Knighty said:

look to sell baker when back along with loaning out massengo n Nagy. Sell eliasson, fammy

I have a good quality DVD player/writer  , used twice, and for sale at 25€.

I have had no replies to any of the publicity that I carefully crafted , why ? 
 

Because, no fecker wants what I have to sell even at bargain basement price.

 

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9 hours ago, joenaldo said:

Would of been nice to still have Cundy & then loan him out deadline day. Although I have never watched him just would of been a centre back in a natural position! 

I think he’s a CB who nobody on here thought is anywhere near Champ level, and going to Cambridge would be a big step up for him, let alone hanging around our squad.  He looks like he’s taken to it really well....in hindsight.

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All a long way into the future I know but I genuinely think if we can go into the second half of the season post Christmas with a fit and firing Baker, Kalas, Mawson trio as our 3 centre halves they can be the best defensive unit in the league.

As for the current situation I do think we need a further body in on loan until Jan as we've now had it confirmed that Rowe will get exposed there against quality opposition. Getting Kalas back hopefully in a few weeks will be a gamechanger.

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11 hours ago, MarcusX said:

...

Hard to be too critical I guess, that’s 8? Changes from Saturday and far from our best 11. Semenyo looked positive, should have scored maybe. Max did himself proud and Bakinson looked good again when he came on

Well Villa made loads of changes too so it was a level playing field in that regard, no?

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46 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I think one thing is clear after last night - our first choice RWB going forwards (at least for now) is going to be Hunt. 

Whilst Sessegnon gets up to speed....but I think Hunt is looking good because his place is under threat.  That’s a good thing.

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah I think so. He is probably about 10th or 11th choice in his best position. Maybe 12th! Can't be bothered to count 

Yep, probably....yet 2nd choice behind Dasilva at LWB.

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9 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well Villa made loads of changes too so it was a level playing field in that regard, no?

We also have to put into some sort of context though don't we? Just looking at the money Villa have spent in their 3 transfers windows back in the Prem and the key injuries we are suffering in defence currently which meant in effect one of Villa's goalscorers was their flashy £17 million new signing in Traore who was up against Rowe, a free transfer from a league 1 club playing out of position for us and then their £28 million new centre forward came on to score their third. 

On another day Fam scores his header and we get a penalty from that handball late on before the third goal and it's a different game. I really don't think we need lose our heads or call for a new system (as some not you are calling for) all from this one game.

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12 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

We also have to put into some sort of context though don't we? Just looking at the money Villa have spent in their 3 transfers windows back in the Prem and the key injuries we are suffering in defence currently which meant in effect one of Villa's goalscorers was their flashy £17 million new signing in Traore who was up against Rowe, a free transfer from a league 1 club playing out of position for us and then their £28 million new centre forward came on to score their third. 

On another day Fam scores his header and we get a penalty from that handball late on before the third goal and it's a different game. I really don't think we need lose our heads or call for a new system (as some not you are calling for) all from this one game.

Completely agree.

I think we had a play a full strength team, or close to it, to have had a chance last night, but priorities dictated.

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20 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

We also have to put into some sort of context though don't we? Just looking at the money Villa have spent in their 3 transfers windows back in the Prem and the key injuries we are suffering in defence currently which meant in effect one of Villa's goalscorers was their flashy £17 million new signing in Traore who was up against Rowe, a free transfer from a league 1 club playing out of position for us and then their £28 million new centre forward came on to score their third. 

On another day Fam scores his header and we get a penalty from that handball late on before the third goal and it's a different game. I really don't think we need lose our heads or call for a new system (as some not you are calling for) all from this one game.

I think you’ve forgotten this is OTIB!

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44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Whilst Sessegnon gets up to speed....but I think Hunt is looking good because his place is under threat.  That’s a good thing.

Yep, probably....yet 2nd choice behind Dasilva at LWB.

At the moment yes. Holden said he likes Callum there so be interesting to see who he goes with when Callum is back 100%.

Hoping Dasilva stays fit all season though and plays a lot more than last season.

1 hour ago, WirralRobin said:

All a long way into the future I know but I genuinely think if we can go into the second half of the season post Christmas with a fit and firing Baker, Kalas, Mawson trio as our 3 centre halves they can be the best defensive unit in the league.

As for the current situation I do think we need a further body in on loan until Jan as we've now had it confirmed that Rowe will get exposed there against quality opposition. Getting Kalas back hopefully in a few weeks will be a gamechanger.

Don't think I'd want Baker in to be honest. Moore and Vyner were excellent against Stoke. Early days, but I really want 3 ball players. I wouldn't say Kalas is great on the ball but he's decent. 

Baker for me doesn't seem willing to play that way.

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

At the moment yes. Holden said he likes Callum there so be interesting to see who he goes with when Callum is back 100%.

Hoping Dasilva stays fit all season though and plays a lot more than last season.

Don't think I'd want Baker in to be honest. Moore and Vyner were excellent against Stoke. Early days, but I really want 3 ball players. I wouldn't say Kalas is great on the ball but he's decent. 

Baker for me doesn't seem willing to play that way.

I think we saw with Eliasson last night, the same concerns I have with O’Dowda.  They suit the attacking needs, but not the defensive needs.  There will be games where their attacking qualities will be needed and games where we are better off with the more defensive minded wing-back..

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we saw with Eliasson last night, the same concerns I have with O’Dowda.  They suit the attacking needs, but not the defensive needs.  There will be games where their attacking qualities will be needed and games where we are better off with the more defensive minded wing-back..

It still baffles me that Pring was brought through as the back up leftie. He'd be getting a good run of games atm and we'd have a natural, mobile defender.

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13 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

The thing is Holden is obviously pretty wedded to the 3-5-2, and that's fine, I think partly due the the short pre-season he wants to get the system and style well ingrained into the squad, so unlike LJ he won't be switching backwards and forwards. Again I think that's fine, sensible, but with the injuries it makes it difficult. 
 

Agree with all your post but this in particular.

Although he wouldn't  have wanted to lose last night, I think Holden was looking at the bigger picture - it was more important to get the players used to playing his 3-5-2 because that's the formation we'll be using for the next 40 odd league games. There won't  be too many Champ teams moving the ball around with the speed and accuracy of a Prem team like last night, so 3-5-2, despite it's flaws, should serve us well enough.

If there'd  been something riding on last night - a QFinal or Semi - I'm  sure Holden would have changed shape as it was obvious to everyone the way we'd set up wasn't  working. He just had more than last night's  result in mind.

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3 hours ago, mozo said:

Well Villa made loads of changes too so it was a level playing field in that regard, no?

I agree, but they did bring on a £30m player and had some quality upfront

THough what I meant was hard to be too critical on us and our chances as a team based on it being a fairly "reserve" 11. It's a bit of a wake up call but in itself shouldn't worry anyone just yet.

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16 hours ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think the personnel were at fault...it was the formation.

Fine playing 352 with players that fit that system.

Rowe doesn't fit being part of a 3 in a 352.

I thought Villa showed how easy it is to stretch our formation... especially when playing expansive and cross field balls into the pockets behind the wing backs.

Imo...we should have changed formation to 442 or 433 to tighten up.

Fine to play 352 when playing with players that suit...but Rowe with Eliasson? Never going to work, especially with Palmer strolling around as well.

I thought Rowe was particularly poor

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5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I agree, but they did bring on a £30m player and had some quality upfront

THough what I meant was hard to be too critical on us and our chances as a team based on it being a fairly "reserve" 11. It's a bit of a wake up call but in itself shouldn't worry anyone just yet.

We brought on Bakinson who quite clearly is a £30m player 😉

Weirdly, if he continues to dominate midfield for the rest of the season, his value will automatically rise to that sort of figure. Mad innit.

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I think it's worth remembering how DH spoke about how we played in a basic 352 at Boro, but changed it around a lot during the game. Keeping that sort of shape, but adapting to different styles during the game.

For example, you can play with width using the wing backs, or more narrow with CM dropping deeper to create almost a 3142.

I think he definitely wants to play 2 up front...and  3 at the back.

It's the midfield that will change more imo...either wider, narrower, deeper, diamond etc, etc.

 

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Just now, spudski said:

I think it's worth remembering how DH spoke about how we played in a basic 352 at Boro, but changed it around a lot during the game. Keeping that sort of shape, but adapting to different styles during the game.

For example, you can play with width using the wing backs, or more narrow with CM dropping deeper to create almost a 3142.

I think he definitely wants to play 2 up front...and  3 at the back.

It's the midfield that will change more imo...either wider, narrower, deeper, diamond etc, etc.

 

Yep, he’s even talked about the back 3 needing to be flexible too, either playing wider to cover WBs, or filling into midfield.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, he’s even talked about the back 3 needing to be flexible too, either playing wider to cover WBs, or filling into midfield.

I struck a chord when he said about three defenders covering one striker...hence the moves Moore is making now, moving up into midfield either with ball, a pass, or pushing up to create the extra outlet.

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