Gerry Gow-Graeme Souness comparison

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

I saw GG from when he first came into the team and he was the best midfielder to play for us, I'm not saying the most skilful but his work rate was phenomenal and he always made a contribution even if he wasn't playing well which is why he was never dropped as far as I can remember. I also saw Souness play and I have to say he was a higher skill level than GG, a top Div 1 player. GG played most of his games in Div 2 although having seen him play in Div 1 he was above average at that level so not quite up to Souness's level but that's no insult to GG, a player like Souness would never be playing for Bristol City anyway so GG's as good as we'll ever get.

Very true. No other City midfielders have come close to GG in the decades that I’ve been attending games at AG and that’s why he’s my favourite City player ever.

[New Dazzler]

This is the midfield from the Scotland squad that went to the WC in Argentina in 1978

Midfielder
	15	Archie Gemmill		Nottingham Forest	24/03/1947
	21	Joe Harper		Aberdeen FC	11/01/1948
	10	Asa Hartford		Manchester City	24/10/1950
	16	Lou Macari		Manchester United	04/06/1949
	7	Don Masson		Derby County	26/08/1946
	6	Bruce Rioch		Derby County	06/09/1947
	19	John Robertson		Nottingham Forest	20/01/1953
	18	Graeme Souness		Liverpool FC	06/05/1953

OK they had a poor tournamanent (the Holland game being the exception), but that was due partly to poor management, failure to manage expectations (Ally's Tartan Army!!) and off the field issues.

But, although he did get some U23 caps in 1974 (off the back of that cup win against Leeds), even in his pomp of the late 70s and , as great a player as he was for us (and later for Manchester city), Gerry Gow is getting nowhere near that squad.  If his career had spanned pretty much any time since 2000, he would be getting at least 50 caps, such has been the decline of Scottish football.  Bear in mind other members of the squad included Dalglish, Jordan, Buchanan, McQueen etc and you see what a type of players were being produced by Scotland in the 70s, who went to both the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, where England were conspicuous by their absence.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Very true. No other City midfielders have come close to GG in the decades that I’ve been attending games at AG and that’s why he’s my favourite City player ever.

We certainly haven`t had anyone come close in the years since although I do wonder if Tommy D could have done if he`d taken his career more seriously but football was changing so much by then. The other one who springs to mind is Gary Shelton.

[Ska Junkie]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

After he retired Souness admitted that he he needed that ‘edge’ to perform at his best and was down to his competitive nature. He added that he used it ‘excessively’  at times and that led to his poor disciplinary record.

GG didn’t have that side to him - at least I never saw it.

Bear in mid, IF you got past Souness, Tommy Smith was waiting for you along with Emlyn Hughes, they could both dish it out too! 

Going off at a bit of a tangent, the player I always liked in that awesome Liverpool side was Ray Kennedy, a really elegant player. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Bear in mid, IF you got past Souness, Tommy Smith was waiting for you along with Emlyn Hughes, they could both dish it out too! 

Going off at a bit of a tangent, the player I always liked in that awesome Liverpool side was Ray Kennedy, a really elegant player. 

Jimmy Case, Terry McDermott too - they were hard buggers, especially Case.

With regard to Ray Kennedy, look at the `later life` section of his Wiki page - he`s had a pretty shitty life since he retired from playing.

[Robbored]

27 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Bear in mid, IF you got past Souness, Tommy Smith was waiting for you along with Emlyn Hughes, they could both dish it out too! 

Going off at a bit of a tangent, the player I always liked in that awesome Liverpool side was Ray Kennedy, a really elegant player. 

Absolutely! One of my most vivid memories of Kennedy was at AG when he and GG kicked the shit out of each other all game and on the final whistle Kennedy had his arm round GGs shoulder as they walked off.

You don’t see much of that these days.

[Maltshoveller]

Loved GG but it could only be on a Bristol City forum that you could have GG and Souness in the same breath

GG a good player but not even close to Souness

[Maltshoveller]

50 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

We certainly haven`t had anyone come close in the years since although I do wonder if Tommy D could have done if he`d taken his career more seriously but football was changing so much by then. The other one who springs to mind is Gary Shelton.

If TommyD took his career more seriously He would have been a Great low league player

The longer he was out injured The better he became in fans eyes

[Med/MadHatter]

Gerry Gow is my all time favourite City player, loved him, but Souness was definitely a better player, he had alot more skill and passing range than he is given credit for imo, he wasn't just a clogger, my favourite non City player and I like the fact he can still intimidate his fellow pundits :laugh:

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Jimmy Case, Terry McDermott too - they were hard buggers, especially Case.

With regard to Ray Kennedy, look at the `later life` section of his Wiki page - he`s had a pretty shitty life since he retired from playing.

He has LR, very sad.

What a player though.

[downendcity]

54 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

If TommyD took his career more seriously He would have been a Great low league player

The longer he was out injured The better he became in fans eyes

Tommy D was Gerry Gow lite.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

We certainly haven`t had anyone come close in the years since although I do wonder if Tommy D could have done if he`d taken his career more seriously but football was changing so much by then. The other one who springs to mind is Gary Shelton.

Sat next to an Aston Villa scout several times when TD was young and first established in the side , got chatting to him and he was here looking at TD

Said he had everything except the pace needed for the top flight 

[Bristol Oil Services]

I think Gerry Gow came on as a sub in his one U23 cap, and played alongside Souness in midfield (with Gerry Francis facing them in England's midfield).

Souness sat out the first two games in Argentina in '78 due to injury, two games they managed only one point from. Souness returned for the Holland game. Souness might've been the closest to GG in position and style, of the midfielders in that '78 squad, I think (?)

Bruce Rioch and Don Masson started the first game v Peru, both were past 30. Masson later said he was injured and shouldn't have gone.

With the benefit of hindsight, Ally McLoud could've done worse than take GG. He was 26 at the time with two seasons of top class football under his belt and probably at his peak (but also probably carrying some injury, too). He might've covered for Souness for those first two games, although he would have to have exercised some caution over the tackles and challenges he made in an international tournament in South America. 

[joe jordans teeth]

4 hours ago, Taz said:

Never saw either live, only through video packages over the years - wasn't interested in football until the mid 90s when I was about 9/10.

Put them both in the same side though - you wouldn't concede too many goals!!

You would definitely end up with 9 players in today’s game tho 

[GrahamC]

38 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I think Gerry Gow came on as a sub in his one U23 cap, and played alongside Souness in midfield (with Gerry Francis facing them in England's midfield).

Souness sat out the first two games in Argentina in '78 due to injury, two games they managed only one point from. Souness returned for the Holland game. Souness might've been the closest to GG in position and style, of the midfielders in that '78 squad, I think (?)

Bruce Rioch and Don Masson started the first game v Peru, both were past 30. Masson later said he was injured and shouldn't have gone.

With the benefit of hindsight, Ally McLoud could've done worse than take GG. He was 26 at the time with two seasons of top class football under his belt and probably at his peak (but also probably carrying some injury, too). He might've covered for Souness for those first two games, although he would have to have exercised some caution over the tackles and challenges he made in an international tournament in South America. 

He did Nick, Donnie Gillies got a start as a striker in the same game, pretty sure it was soon after we had won at Leeds in the cup with him scoring the goal.

Scotland’s strength in depth in midfield was incredible then, if you look at the players who went to that World Cup they were all first choice at decent clubs, though your point that a fair number were aged 30/31, which was old in football terms then, is a good one.

[Polly]

Too young to have seen Gow, but I seem to remember something about Souness being sacked as Liverpool manager...

 

[The Saturday Boy]

On 14/11/2020 at 11:22, Davefevs said:

That’s a good way of describing him.

Souness was never immortalised in a song by Half Man Half Biscuit

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, Masala said:

Souness was never immortalised in a song by Half Man Half Biscuit

But Gerry never appeared in Boys From The Blackstuff.

[Der no.2]

52 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

But Gerry never appeared in Boys From The Blackstuff.

better looking by far

[Robbored]

56 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

But Gerry never appeared in Boys From The Blackstuff.

Yosser Hughes......give us a job. That role made Bernard Hill. 

[BTRFTG]

Gow was a terrific player but Souness he was not.

I used to watch Gerry in the afternoon and later at 'closing' when he'd eventually end up back at his local (replete with take-outs.)

He played to a very high standard and probably should have gone higher, save for all his strengths on the park his weakness for the grog was ultimately his downfall. Not the first or last with that failing, but he'll remain in the upper echelon of those who've ever graced AG's turf.

[Sheltons Army]

Just stumbled on this

If some of the younger fans want to know what Souness was like / about .....

Great ability , hard as nails , and a real nasty b*****d

 

[BTRFTG]

On 14/11/2020 at 14:50, downendcity said:

Tommy D was Gerry Gow lite.

Lite (and for a maximum 45 minutes....)

Never before or since have I witnessed a kid so young lack that degree of stamina. Also wasn't as though he was a 5 furlong sprinter. 

My uncle used to sing his praises when watching him as a very young prospect. Bags of talent yet physically very limited.

 

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Just stumbled on this

If some of the younger fans want to know what Souness was like / about .....

Great ability , hard as nails , and a real nasty b*****d

 

For those too young to have witnessed Souness in the flesh, if you REALLY want to know what he was like Google 'Galatasaray Flag planted at Fenerbahce' and watch the video through tightly clenched fingers.........

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 13/11/2020 at 21:17, Davefevs said:

Souness was class and a vital part of Liverpool's success.  Without him Liverpool would not have been so good.  Right up there as one of the best midfielders in Div1 at the time, if not the best.

Gerry was our equivalent for City, but not anywhere Souness's level imho.

You’ll always be a Liverpool fan - you just can’t help yourself!

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 13/11/2020 at 23:53, downendcity said:

That Souness was a great player is not in doubt.

That those of us that saw GG play think that he was a great player, is also not in doubt - I strongly suspect that a large majority of my generation will have him as their all time favourite and probably best player.

Comparing the two is more difficult. It would be easy to say that Souness was the better because of the trophies and  international caps he won, but how much of that is due to the quality of the teams in which he played - the Liverpool team of the time was an absolutely great team?

Would Gow have been as good as Souness, had he been playing in that Liverpool team? We will never know, but I don't think he would have looked out of place and they might even have made him an even better player.

While it’s all speculation, I just count myself lucky enough to have seen him play from his early days as a youth team graduate to becoming the heartbeat of the promotion winning team. I can still picture him covering the muddy Ashton Gate with that distinctive run - bouncing along on the balls of his feet - and tearing into tackles like a terrier.

We will be lucky to see another player of his ilk any time soon.

 

Totally agree - Gerry Gow is my fave ever City player - absolute class, loved him ...

[Der no.2]

[Red Shadow]

8 minutes ago, Der no.2 said:

What a great pic! Thompson looks a bit 'wrong' without a 'tache though.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Der no.2 said:

It was either this game or the one the season before that defending a corner at the old open end someone shouted something like “oi Thompson - we can see your head one side of the post and your nose the other side”

[1960maaan]

23 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Totally agree - Gerry Gow is my fave ever City player - absolute class, loved him ...

You and many others, quality. Just watched the '74 game Vs L'pool, just love watching the bloke, very decent side too.