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Holden - sack or keep?


Major Isewater

Holden - sack or keep?   

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1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

I’d get rid now.

Gives a manager time to look at what he needs & with quite a few OOC at the end of the season, he can make a decision on their contract renewals. 

You just have to hope they’d bring someone in with a bit of experience & not mess it up again like they did in the summer. 

It makes no difference as long as Ashton is in charge of recruitment 

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I’m in favour of preparing an exit strategy now for Holden and the coaching team (and others) to leave at the end of the season. 


Let them finish the valuable work of blooding young players so that there is at least a minor tangible legacy from 2020-21.
 

Allow a dignified departure for all involved and use the next few months for discussions around the strategy for 2021-22. This means the new gaffer, coaching team, recruitment set up and medical set up.

A mid-table season will do Holden no harm and players like Moore, Bakinson, Massengo, Semenyo, Towler and Vyner will all be better placed to compete under the new regime.

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16 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As I write this, 135 votes. Only 5 on an absolute “keep” and 65% for sacking now. Those at the end of the season seem to be more on the not wanting a stop gap.

It’s a small sample (less than 1% of our average attendance) but those findings are pretty damning

Agreed. It’s a fairly decent sample (even if small) given the range of demographic who post here.

I also find OTIB to be a fair bit more high brow than Facebook or Twitter discussion so the voters would have generally factored in the nuances and complexities of this season’s circumstances. Not good news for the club if this is extrapolated across the entire support.

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Assuming we safely stay up, I'd give him another crack next season with a fit squad. Before the injury blitz we were exactly where we wanted to be, up in the mixer. 11 first team injuries is a travesty. Sack the sodding physios or sports scientists or whoever is most directly related to player fitness, but keep Dean. I'd only want to see Dean sacked if relegation was beginning to look likely. 

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A lot of people make reference to not knowing about finances next season due to covid. Are they swallowing what MA had to tell Twentyman?

There would be a lot more credence to them if we hadn’t signed Lansbury on (at least) £20k. It beggars belief. 

The manager is probably about the lowest paid member of the squad, yet we’re prepared to keep filling our squad with 20k players. It beggars belief. 

If you’re going to cry poverty, stop splashing the ******* cash!

Sadly, Holden out. 

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38 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

None of whom will come with Ashton in charge.. Howe already said no. Cook possibly did as well. It's common sense that you sound out the best available but when they read the prospectus, no doubt 20 pages or more long from Ashton, it curbs their enthusiasm no end. 

Any manager who rules themselves out of a job on the basis that a CEO / Recruitment team is already incumbent to the club will be ruling themselves out of a lot of jobs in modern football. As a football club we are an attractive propostion with the infrastructure in place i.e. new stadium, training ground nearing completion, wealthy owner that has backed managers within reason. The next manager needs to have a say in proceedings and make changes to it which I would think MA / SL would be receptive to for the right candidate but it will need to tie in with the sustainability model currently in place particularly with the financial hit Covid has brought.

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Holdens now been in charge (as permanent manager) for 28 league games. I’ve been watching City since the 80’s. The only other manager I can recall such a groundswell against after that time was Pulis. 

The other candidates would be Benny and SO’D - however with Benny, there was sympathy that he came into a job he didn’t want to do (and blooded kids - more than DH). With SO’D, I think people understood what he was trying to do. I don’t recall (even though Benny was pre internet) people being as down on him at that time.

The only one I recall the fan base being so overwhelming in favour of the manager going at this stage was Pulis. And again, that wasn’t about results. That was about the quality of the football and the negative way of playing.

Theres a lesson there somewhere 

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2 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

You honestly don't believe that Cook or Howe for example wouldn't be more capable & better prepared to deliver??........

Unfortunately the problem with this issue is the stubbornness of Mr Lansdown.

Very much in the minority, but I think the coaching structure is right to take the club forward, might take a year or two to produce results, and this year has been hampered by Covid and injuries. 
Just my opinion, I know I’m in a minority, but I’m a massive fan of the structure in place and stability. 
And all that’s happening now is not real, because I’m not watching it!

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I've got the same view I had when we discussed sacking LJ, although in hindsight now keeping LJ was probably better than employing DH in our current situation.

If we can replace him with someone experienced and "proven" then I'd go for it

If we sack him with no one lined up and go through another 5/6 weeks without caretakers and end up appointing someone uninspiring then no, I'd at least keep him until the end of the season and see who becomes available

Of who is available, and that I've seen enough of, highlights for me are probably:

Lampard - done reasonably well at this level with Derby, think Chelsea job was too early, has great contacts
Howe - obviously a good coach/manager at Bournemouth. Did spend a bit though
Di Matteo - took West Brom up, so he's "done it" at this level
Pearson / Wagner / Cook - best of the rest really

None of the managers you mention would work within our structure 

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He’s clearly a ‘Covid carry’ appointment.

A 12 month rolling contact and the signings he’s made (ie mainly short term deals or young players with potential) suggests to me the club made the decision to keep a bit of continuity by going with someone internal but not go ‘all-in’ while the scenario in terms of finance and future changes was uncertain.

If he keeps us in the division, that’s fine; then he should be assessed on the quality of football and potential - personally; feel he may get slid sideways/back into an assistant role and a more senior figure appear, or even let go to facilitate that.

Seems a good man and I had hoped he’d inspire us, and I’m also very pleased the number of youth players we are blooding in the league proper this year.

But truthfully he’s not getting the maximum from this squad, regardless of injuries, and I unless we now morph into a completely different side under his stewardship in the next two/three months, realistically we need to avoid going the LJ route and throwing money at players in trying to support him, and instead get in a figurehead to change the culture and take us forward.

Just my five pence but expect he’s going absolutely nowhere fast, but that may be part of the broader plan, and may not even leave if he isn’t HC long term.

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I think it’s fair to say (unless Ashton/Lansdown are stupidly content with current run/style) that he will be gone by the end of year. It’s whether - 

1) He’s given additional time due to injuries to prove himself once players come back.
 
2) If they want to get rid are there any managers available (can’t imagine club wanting to spend compensation on new manager in current times) who would work with Club hierarchy, and would then have 2-3 months to assess squad ahead of summer with numerous key players OOC

3) Wait till summer when potentially more managers generally become available (sacked/leave current clubs) but that means he has zero time to assess squad and Holden/Ashton make decision before who gets offered new deals 

I think it would be option 3 and can imagine the club (like many) will be ‘wheeling dealing’ in the summer for OOC players being released as we release most of ours too to reduce wage bill once new guy is confirmed 

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Sacking Holden, and even Ashton, is akin to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

Until the man at the helm has a lightbulb moment and realises he needs to take advice from proper footballing people with the requisite experience, then we will continue to tread water, and eventually begin to go backwards. 

Which sort of people should the club look to bring in for a bit of help in your view? 

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Otib really amuses me at times.................:)

We lose in the cup to a PL club after a dreadfully poor loss at AG to Cardiff and that prompts  a completely meaningless thread like this one...............:rofl2br:

Thanks for the input. It’s obviously nothing to do with last night in isolation, it’s a snapshot of feeling based on the entire season and circumstances.

You’re the one that’s chosen to get involved. Anyway, what do you think? Holden - sack, back or reassess at end of season?

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People will roll eyes but the thing to consider right now is the Cotts appointment.

He used many of the same players who were here when he arrived and brought in often unsung/odd-seeming signings (the Aaron Wilbraham thread was possibly one of the best/worst examples of the reaction to this), yet the attitude of the team flipped on its head, and we had a distinct playing style and most importantly culture.

Yes, things went sour eventually, but that really is the type of change we need, as we have players who should be able to compete at this level right now, at least in my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thanks for the input. It’s obviously nothing to do with last night in isolation, it’s a snapshot of feeling based on the entire season and circumstances.

You’re the one that’s chosen to get involved. Anyway, what do you think? Holden - sack, back or reassess at end of season?

I voted on the poll despite it being completely meaningless.

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Just now, Robbored said:

I voted on the poll despite it being completely meaningless.

Robbored really amuses me at times.................:)

He takes time telling people their threads are ‘meaningless’ or he won’t believe it unless it’s on the OS and somehow adds very little value despite so many posts over so many years...............:rofl2br:

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1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I voted on the poll despite it being completely meaningless.

You do get that this is a forum, don't you?

It's here to let fans give their opinions on all sorts of shit, 99% of which isn't going to affect the club one jot. 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I take no pleasure in voting sack, but the club must come before my pity for Deano. 

Same. I’ve never thought he was the right choice but I can’t blame him for being talked into taking the job, surely that is what happened? 

I’ve never taken to his two assistants either so they can go. 

I hate the thought that sooner or later a sacking will happen here again, this smacks of failure and upheaval. But I would add I would think it would be wrong to sack him today on the strength of last night’s game, we would forever be branded as sacking him after a harsh VAR decision.

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

Robbored really amuses me at times.................:)

He takes time telling people their threads are ‘meaningless’ or he won’t believe it unless it’s on the OS and somehow adds very little value despite so many posts over so many years...............:rofl2br:

and yet I have over 900 likes............:cool2:

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