pongo88 Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: That’s because SO’D is well thought of as a coach. Liverpool also employed him. His issue is that he’s an incredibly dour and slightly odd man. That may be fine at a club the supporters acknowledge is punching above their weight (ie his time at Doncaster) but at the time our supporters never warmed to him. The context of his time here is important, he had a very hard job to do. History should judge him kindly, he set lots of the groundwork in place for our eventual promotion. There seems to be a myth that has developed about SoD setting the groundwork for City’s subsequent promotion after he was sacked. I prefer to stick to the facts. When he was sacked at the end of November, City had only managed to win one league match that season and was heading for League 2. The football was dire - even worse than what we’ve got today. I put the upturned in fortune entirely down to Cotts after he replaced SoD. One thing I do agree with is that he was a miserable sod (excuse the pun). The only time I can remember him being happy is after City’s 2-2 draw against Leyton Orient, which was his last match in charge. Strangely being enthusiastic may have got him the sack. I can remember SL saying (words to the effect) that things must be bad, and need to change, if drawing at home to Leyton Orient can be celebrated as a good result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Part of the problem maybe having to make the transition from coach to head coach, going from where he is acting like a mate to having to make decisions or give feedback to a players that they do not like. You also have a situation where LJ's players are close to him and had the assistant type relationship, and new players come in he is the gaffer, I wonder if that was related to the politics quote by JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, pongo88 said: There seems to be a myth that has developed about SoD setting the groundwork for City’s subsequent promotion after he was sacked. I prefer to stick to the facts. When he was sacked at the end of November, City had only managed to win one league match that season and was heading for League 2. The football was dire - even worse than what we’ve got today. I put the upturned in fortune entirely down to Cotts after he replaced SoD. One thing I do agree with is that he was a miserable sod (excuse the pun). The only time I can remember him being happy is after City’s 2-2 draw against Leyton Orient, which was his last match in charge. Strangely being enthusiastic may have got him the sack. I can remember SL saying (words to the effect) that things must be bad, and need to change, if drawing at home to Leyton Orient can be celebrated as a good result Reduced the wagebill by several million, reduced amortisation by several million. Started to improve recruitment: Fielding Flint Pack D.Williams Emmanuel-Thomas Wagstaff Thats what I refer to as foundations. Yes, on the field it was turgid, but some will suggest we may have been turning a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Top Robin said: So we are all focussing on Holden and quite rightly - I definitely want him gone. But what of Downing and Simpson? They were brought on as experienced, quality coaches who had worked at a high level. When Holden was given the job, I for one thought that he might get away with it by having these two coaches who would basically sort the team out in terms of influencing and having an input into the selection, shape, playing style, strategy and tactics plus the new signings. Quite frankly, they have done naff all and in some ways our team has regressed. This has been the most disappointing aspect for me - I was kind of relying on these two. They must have some degree of responsibility and if Holden goes, so should they. You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, pongo88 said: There seems to be a myth that has developed about SoD setting the groundwork for City’s subsequent promotion after he was sacked. I prefer to stick to the facts. When he was sacked at the end of November, City had only managed to win one league match that season and was heading for League 2. The football was dire - even worse than what we’ve got today. I put the upturned in fortune entirely down to Cotts after he replaced SoD. One thing I do agree with is that he was a miserable sod (excuse the pun). The only time I can remember him being happy is after City’s 2-2 draw against Leyton Orient, which was his last match in charge. Strangely being enthusiastic may have got him the sack. I can remember SL saying (words to the effect) that things must be bad, and need to change, if drawing at home to Leyton Orient can be celebrated as a good result I also prefer to stick to the facts. Fielding, Flint, Pack, JET, Wagstaff, Williams all SO’D signings. He played Reid and Bryan regularly too. Many of his signings went onto become mainstays in our promotion side and most of the above I’ve mentioned progressed to play at a higher level. He cleared out lots of the waste on our books at a time when the club had to cut back. It was a horrible remit and he did a good job on that front. Granted, he didn’t perform brilliantly results wise - but he laid lots of the groundwork that was subsequently built on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 Well, they are coaches and the side doesn't seem very well coached. Players we know looked OK at one time now look incapable of either providing or countering a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, weepywall said: Looks to me like they are both stealing a living at AG, Stop the steal. Got a ring to it, that. I could get behind that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: Stop the steal. Got a ring to it, that. I could get behind that. When are we storming Ashton Gate? Other than to get covid vaccines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Lrrr said: When are we storming Ashton Gate? Other than to get covid vaccines Just as soon as Prof. Whitty gives us the ok ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted February 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 43 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 Yes I have, I've watched virtually every game with them as coaches and we have been dreadful....I expected more from coaches of that quality and they should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_bristol Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: That’s because SO’D is well thought of as a coach. Liverpool also employed him. His issue is that he’s an incredibly dour and slightly odd man. That may be fine at a club the supporters acknowledge is punching above their weight (ie his time at Doncaster) but at the time our supporters never warmed to him. The context of his time here is important, he had a very hard job to do. History should judge him kindly, he set lots of the groundwork in place for our eventual promotion. SOD himself said he was a victim of our transition. I draw parallels between that and what Holden is going through right now. IMO this is a season of transition and DH & Co should be judged on next season but on this run we are all running out of patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 You can get a significant steer on the success of the coaches , and probably their coaching ability by watching for coached / drilled / understood traits appearing on matchday Improvement of individual players Some coaches may perform in one , many may not in both together FWIW I think it’s fair to say there has been improvement in some individuals I also saw some signs of ‘team / tactical’ coaching , drilling early season , and think I commented about us looking drilled and getting back into shape out of possession (I think it was Bournemouth game) - We also showed some bright signs of flowing counter attacking football in that game too , despite a loss Those (team) signs have disappeared into a abyss for some while which is tbh strange as we’ve not even retained what had been good to that point We could surmise what that is down to but my hope is that the signs were there in a 3-5-2 system and have been slightly endorsed by better performances when we’ve returned to that system Too many fell into the FA National Coach stargaze when they arrived , it really isn’t a endorsement of their coaching abilities that many seem to think - It doesn’t mean they are not excellent coaches but it certainly doesn’t mean they are. It concerns me that we have looked so turgid and unimaginative or cohesive with the ball for so long , but I still retain hope that a return to the system we started with under DH ,might bear better fruit Injuries , CoVid allowing - Dean has strayed and messed for too much IMHO opinion with selections, formations - Quickly needs to get back to his basics and starting beliefs, and stick with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 40 minutes ago, Top Robin said: Yes I have, I've watched virtually every game with them as coaches and we have been dreadful....I expected more from coaches of that quality and they should go. Think you’ve missed my point but okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: Think you might have misunderstood my meaning - I don’t think Tinnion would want another crack at the managers job, and I differ from you in that I don’t really want him to get one. I think he’s perfect in the role he’s in. What I’m saying is that if you got rid of Holden, the options are Simpson/Downing - which I think would be as toxic, they have no credit with the fan base - appointing a short term external candidate - which I’m not keen on - or an internal caretaker, which I think Tinnion is the best man for and would do. Absolutely no intent to give him the role permanently. But someone who knows the club and players while we find our next good human looks sensible. I said this after the Cardiff game. At least I think it was Cardiff - we're so sh*t in all of them it's hard to remember. Anyway, I actually said Tinnion and Murray until the end of the season and got shot down by people, most of whom didn't read the post properly and thought the suggestion was for a permanent appointment. My point was that Tinnion and Murray probably wouldn't have a clue what they were doing either, but would at least instil some passion in the players. Something that appears desperately lacking right now. In a climate with no matchday revenue, where we probably don't know future budgets until at least the summer, I think it would probably be the best roll of the dice, given that we don't need that many points for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Lrrr said: So what are people actually expecting to hear/see them doing? I want to see that whatever they're doing "behind the scenes" delivers 3 points on far more occasions than at present. For all I care, they could be drinking scrumpy and playing "pinchy-winchy" with the players. As long as we got three points most games with some decent football thrown in, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, the three main outcomes at the moment are lethargic, pedestrian and unattractive football, far too many defeats, and an ever-growing list of injuries most of which seem to occur during training sesions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Real Red said: I remember when the coaches were appointed, we were told they had contacts with the cream of the young footballing talent in the country, through England, and to expect some impressive loan signings, similar to the loans Pep was going to send us then !! Surely you're not suggesting that Mr Ashton misled us. Perish the thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, Major Isewater said: In fairness they have improved the shape of the team ‘out of possession ‘ but I fear that none of our coaches have the necessary skills to implement offensive patterns. Our boys are very good at staying in shape but seem reluctant to break out and take the risks which can lead to a shot on goal. Yes there is a lot to this. Every break we get we are so slow that we stop and pass it back. If it gets to Massengo that is a guarantee, but that is pretty much all of them. On the odd occasion Hunt will go forward but no one gets into the area very much. The one serious break we have had in the last 9 games resulted in Wells making the stupidest decision in World football since Zidane head butted a blokes chest!. I have been very much behind Holden, until late, however it his job to get what he has playing, as it is the highly paid England coaching team....The failure is a failure of all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Superjack said: I said this after the Cardiff game. At least I think it was Cardiff - we're so sh*t in all of them it's hard to remember. Anyway, I actually said Tinnion and Murray until the end of the season and got shot down by people, most of whom didn't read the post properly and thought the suggestion was for a permanent appointment. My point was that Tinnion and Murray probably wouldn't have a clue what they were doing either, but would at least instil some passion in the players. Something that appears desperately lacking right now. In a climate with no matchday revenue, where we probably don't know future budgets until at least the summer, I think it would probably be the best roll of the dice, given that we don't need that many points for survival. Tinnion didn't do that when he was manager. Why would now be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said: Just as soon as Prof. Whitty gives us the ok ..... Oh Gawd ! You've dropped a name into the hat that Ashton hadn't thought of. Expect Whitty will now announced as Holden's replacement. (Whitty's Bristol City sounds better than Frank Lampard's Derby). Ably assisted by Vallance and Van Tam? This may be the injection we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Tinnion didn't do that when he was manager. Why would now be any different? Well Murray would. And Tinnion wouldn't be managing his teammates this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, And Its Smith said: You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 By the same token, without them we might be top six. No way of proving it one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Tinnion didn't do that when he was manager. Why would now be any different? Because he's a lot older and wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: I want to see that whatever they're doing "behind the scenes" delivers 3 points on far more occasions than at present. For all I care, they could be drinking scrumpy and playing "pinchy-winchy" with the players. As long as we got three points most games with some decent football thrown in, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, the three main outcomes at the moment are lethargic, pedestrian and unattractive football, far too many defeats, and an ever-growing list of injuries most of which seem to occur during training sesions. Well before the mountain of injuries the record was decent and we're still sat 10th, especially when you consider most people seemingly expected us to be fighting relegation when Holden was announced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: By the same token, without them we might be top six. No way of proving it one way or the other. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, And Its Smith said: You’ve no idea what they have or haven’t done. Without them we might be bottom 6 Our form over the last 15 league games, puts us 22nd in the championship. With only Birmingham and Wycombe with a worse points tally. If they've been instilling good practices over the last 4 months; it hasn't had the desired effect unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Gakoe said: I think someone on here referred to them as Bungle, Zippy and George. Which at the moment seems a fair assessment Well,,at least 'the wife looks happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Bring in 2 coaches that have coached young England players then change your recruitment policy to bring in 30 year olds. The club really baffle me, there is no coherent plan that I can see!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 11 hours ago, Super said: They will probably get the job That would seriously piss me off enough to give me the strength to physically tear up my season card in disgust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, harvey54 said: He's incredibly shy. I met him at a charity dinner at afcb and he hardly spoke to anyone all night. When I chatted to a couple of players they said that was just his way and that he was very shy and intelligent. His players loved him because he encouraged them to express themselves and take responsibility on the pitch. He likes intelligent players. Maybe that's why he struggled at City. Not for the first or the last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 My mate, works at Bristol Sports, says the lads have nicknamed Simpson "Wallis," anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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