The conversation between Jon Steve and Mark

[REDOXO]

I wonder how that one goes tomorrow!

Something Like this perhaps 

SL: WTF WAS THAT 

JL: We won dad 18/17 top of the league

MA: Nah Jon, I think he’s talking about soccer. 
 

JL: Agh yeah that wasn’t good. Mark reckoned we had the right bloke. That Holding fella! Super nice the time I met him.

SL: you met him once?

JL: Yeah he came to ask for some transfer money at the Xmas party. Told him nah! Asked him what a left back was. 
 

SL: I hold you responsible Mark. 
 

MA: But Steve he was your mates, mate. He was a shoe in

SL: I guess so! Good point Mark. Carry on regardless! The weather is lovely in Botswana. 

[grifty]

Well this was worthy of a new thread...

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

I don't believe SL thinks like that. He will be sensitive about BCFC because he is a supporter at the end of the day, he never would have pumped the money in over the years if he wasn't

Trouble is, he has become too detached from the club. To use a bit of corporate speak, he needs to reconnect with the fan base and talk to them about the "matchday experience"

He needs to be made aware of what Mark Ashton is doing to this club. At the moment, the perception to SL is probably that he is running a tight ship and the guy is generating very decent revenue for the club in terms of the sale of players over the last 3 years which in fairness, has been substantial. So we're doing alright and eventually, our cheapskate managerial appointments might one day pay off

HOWEVER, what SL doesn't understand is that MA is effectively running this club like Putin. He will NOT appoint an experienced and proven manager because this will undoubtedly involve his position being challenged and the manager wanting to decide what players get recruited. Now I can kind of understand that to a degree given the situation we ended up with around 10 years ago with a squad of about 100 players however, at some point, SL has got to realise that the maxim "you get what you pay for" is actually true

Dean Holden was offered the kind of opportunity that we would all love and took it and I absolutely don't blame him for that. He was however Ashton's appointment and was absolutely the right man for this club - over and above Hughton..?????!!!!!, seriously, do me a favour, would we be in this state of total shambles with him in charge (anyone who says yes, is seriously deluded)

This flies completely in the face of the approach taken by our rugby cousins, There, we DID go and buy a top manager and this has reaped the results. DID YOU NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM THIS...????!

DH was your appointment Mr Ashton so take responsibility and walk, you are no longer required at this club. Instead, we need an experienced manager, I would love us to sell the project to Eddie Howe but  just get someone with a pedigree that the players will respect..

[REDOXO]

53 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

I don't believe SL thinks like that. He will be sensitive about BCFC because he is a supporter at the end of the day, he never would have pumped the money in over the years if he wasn't

Trouble is, he has become too detached from the club. To use a bit of corporate speak, he needs to reconnect with the fan base and talk to them about the "matchday experience"

He needs to be made aware of what Mark Ashton is doing to this club. At the moment, the perception to SL is probably that he is running a tight ship and the guy is generating very decent revenue for the club in terms of the sale of players over the last 3 years which in fairness, has been substantial. So we're doing alright and eventually, our cheapskate managerial appointments might one day pay off

HOWEVER, what SL doesn't understand is that MA is effectively running this club like Putin. He will NOT appoint an experienced and proven manager because this will undoubtedly involve his position being challenged and the manager wanting to decide what players get recruited. Now I can kind of understand that to a degree given the situation we ended up with around 10 years ago with a squad of about 100 players however, at some point, SL has got to realise that the maxim "you get what you pay for" is actually true

Dean Holden was offered the kind of opportunity that we would all love and took it and I absolutely don't blame him for that. He was however Ashton's appointment and was absolutely the right man for this club - over and above Hughton..?????!!!!!, seriously, do me a favour, would we be in this state of total shambles with him in charge (anyone who says yes, is seriously deluded)

This flies completely in the face of the approach taken by our rugby cousins, There, we DID go and buy a top manager and this has reaped the results. DID YOU NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM THIS...????!

DH was your appointment Mr Ashton so take responsibility and walk, you are no longer required at this club. Instead, we need an experienced manager, I would love us to sell the project to Eddie Howe but  just get someone with a pedigree that the players will respect..

I agree with some of this. Certainly the detachment (or thr appearance of, which was alluded to). The obvious answer is were we better on the pitch when Steve was more involved and to be frank if you read some of the stuff on here over the years many were clamoring for Steve to keep his nose out of football matters.

Clearly despite the same issues we experienced for a long time, except when sc was in charge, the ground and development of the business have gone on unabated. The Ashton Vale saga, that put us back three years, firmly in the rear view mirror.

Clubs in a variety of sports have been bought and I guess are being funded in the same way, by SL.

We have had a nightmare with injuries, we all get it, but the players should be able to run, mark, pass, tackle etc, at all levels and yet, we are failing in the basics.

We had Bentley Kalas, Vyner Patterson, Diehdou,, Hunt, Lansbury all senior pros along with Moore Semenyo and Massengo. In fact the only one that has not had regular championship football this or any other season was Towler.That team had no right to be 4 down after half an hour.

I agree SL does not think like that (as above) however he does think wtf is going on, how can we keep putting in awful displays. 

The fella has spent a fortune on players wages and facilities to go down without a fight today  (a comment he made about SOD). 

Words will be exchanged tomorrow if not soon between Jon and Steve that is a racing certainty, as dads will always stop funding their kids mistakes at some point. Make no mistake Jon L and Mark Ashton make the recommendations that Steve acts upon, as he does with the Rugby, in that case Jon L and Pat Lam, the difference is obvious I reckon. 

[dREDful]

You haven't really managed to convey the choking of crayons in each of Jon's lines tbh. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

I don't believe SL thinks like that. He will be sensitive about BCFC because he is a supporter at the end of the day, he never would have pumped the money in over the years if he wasn't

Trouble is, he has become too detached from the club. To use a bit of corporate speak, he needs to reconnect with the fan base and talk to them about the "matchday experience"

He needs to be made aware of what Mark Ashton is doing to this club. At the moment, the perception to SL is probably that he is running a tight ship and the guy is generating very decent revenue for the club in terms of the sale of players over the last 3 years which in fairness, has been substantial. So we're doing alright and eventually, our cheapskate managerial appointments might one day pay off

HOWEVER, what SL doesn't understand is that MA is effectively running this club like Putin. He will NOT appoint an experienced and proven manager because this will undoubtedly involve his position being challenged and the manager wanting to decide what players get recruited. Now I can kind of understand that to a degree given the situation we ended up with around 10 years ago with a squad of about 100 players however, at some point, SL has got to realise that the maxim "you get what you pay for" is actually true

Dean Holden was offered the kind of opportunity that we would all love and took it and I absolutely don't blame him for that. He was however Ashton's appointment and was absolutely the right man for this club - over and above Hughton..?????!!!!!, seriously, do me a favour, would we be in this state of total shambles with him in charge (anyone who says yes, is seriously deluded)

This flies completely in the face of the approach taken by our rugby cousins, There, we DID go and buy a top manager and this has reaped the results. DID YOU NOT LEARN ANYTHING FROM THIS...????!

DH was your appointment Mr Ashton so take responsibility and walk, you are no longer required at this club. Instead, we need an experienced manager, I would love us to sell the project to Eddie Howe but  just get someone with a pedigree that the players will respect..

Comparisons to rugby in terms of cost and type of regulation are a red herring to some extent. With respect to us.

How much would Hughton have:

*Wanted for Transfer and wage budget.

*How many new players would he have wanted to sign and how quickly. 

*Would he have paid attention in his wishlist to the material uncertainty of the current climate, combined with the limitations imposed by the still ongoing FFP regs? (As with all clubs).

*With a lot out of contract this coming summer, would he have been content to assess things, as well as earmarking targets with quiet inbound transfer activity in this a Covid hit season?

All key considerations.

With respect to FFP. All clubs submit in March of the existing season, big spending in summer 2020 can cause issues when we're unsure which items are exempt under Covid etc.

Oh I missed the bit about Howe. Howe might be similar to Hughton but worse in this respect.

Current amended system goes like this:

2017/18- £25m LOSS- est. £5m allowable costs.

2018/19- £10m PROFIT then add on est. £5m allowable costs.

2019/20 and 2020/21 Average Combined allowable loss £34m perhaps. Hard to calculate this one but we don't know which costs allowed over this third period.

We have last seasons results so it's 2017/18, 2018/19 and then this and last added them halved. That £10m LOSS included £25m of Player Sales Profit so I wonder what this combined average might show...could be an aggregate loss of £68m halved, not done significant sums yet.

Unsure what the combined average would be.

[Rinkadink]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

in that case Jon L and Pat Lam, the difference is obvious I reckon

No, Mark Tainton is the CEO... Pat Lam is similar to Holden except now Director of Rugby (previously Head Coach).

City has Ashton as CEO. Tainton if you didn't know is a legend of a player, Bristol through and through plus a sought after and well respected kicking coach who brought on the likes of Johnny Sexton and co... I'm not sure what comparible credentials Ashton has or if his heart is in City as club like Tainton is for Bristol Bears.

 

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, Rinkadink said:

No, Mark Tainton is the CEO... Pat Lam is similar to Holden except now Director of Rugby (previously Head Coach).

City has Ashton as CEO. Tainton if you didn't know is a legend of a player, Bristol through and through plus a sought after and well respected kicking coach who brought on the likes of Johnny Sexton and co... I'm not sure what comparible credentials Ashton has or if his heart is in City as club like Tainton is for Bristol Bears.

 

Yes you are quite right about Mark. However how the hierarchy works in actuality we don’t know as the Rugby club structure and FC are clearly not a mirror image. Nevertheless the difference between Holden/Ashton versus Tainton/Lam are clear.

I do watch The Bears from time to time, even have some kits, but I would not claim as much knowledge as you, as I clearly don’t have it

However difficult it is to make a comparison with credentials/qualifications with any of the four the outcomes are stark and very real and I take your point about Tainton, perhaps a, City man, needs to be in that mirror post! I can think of a few.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes you are quite right about Mark. However how the hierarchy works in actuality we don’t know as the Rugby club structure and FC are clearly not a mirror image. Nevertheless the difference between Holden/Ashton versus Tainton/Lam are clear.

I do watch The Bears from time to time, even have some kits, but I would not claim as much knowledge as you, as I clearly don’t have it

However difficult it is to make a comparison with credentials/qualifications with any of the four the outcomes are stark and very real and I take your point about Tainton, perhaps a, City man, needs to be in that mirror post! I can think of a few.

Doesn’t need to be a City fan, don’t constrain your options, but it does need a football person in recruitment.  You wouldn’t put a player in charge of the accounts would you?

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Doesn’t need to be a City fan, don’t constrain your options, but it does need a football person in recruitment.  You wouldn’t put a player in charge of the accounts would you?

I said man rather than fan. And my obvious thoughts were Jordan Scudamore Royal among a few others, but thanks for the financial advice! I’ll remember that. 

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Jordan Scudamore Royal

Never heard of this chap.

Is he one of the Dorset Scudamore Royals ? 

 

[BigAl&Toby]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Doesn’t need to be a City fan, don’t constrain your options, but it does need a football person in recruitment.  You wouldn’t put a player in charge of the accounts would you?

No you’re right Dave.

Yet we have a buffoon of a man in ultimate charge and control of a football club.

Wouldn’t expect a footballer to necessarily be CEO or beneficial owner I know but how the hell can someone who has been so successful elsewhere in his professional life make so many bad choices and mistakes?

Unless of course they aren’t that. Bad choices and mistakes. BCFC is only one of a number of dice that Steve and Jon have to roll.

As long as one of them comes up with a 6 they’re happy. Return on investment, inheritance and family financial legacy guaranteed.

Investment de-risked. A nice diversified portfolio. 

JL: What are we going to do about all those lifelong BCFC supporters dad?

MA: **** ‘em. We don’t need them. They’ll keep supporting the football club. 

SL: Hang on Mark. Jon asked me. Let me think........ Yes. **** ‘em. We don’t need them after all.

JL: But dad. What if they walk. Or don’t renew their season tickets. How long can we go on like this?

SL & MA: **** ‘em!

JL: No. We can’t. They’re our bread and butter. We need them.

SL: Listen son. Don’t forget we’ve got our fingers in many pies. Football is now only a small part. We’ve got the Ashton Vale chip to cash in soon. We’ve got land in that awful part of Bristol as far as the eye can see. Conferences and hotel opportunities galore. Don’t forget we’ve got tickets to see the Killers and you love live music don’t you? The Bears are flying high and the Flyers are slam dunking away. We’ve even got that Salmon girl who’s been called up. We’ve spent a small fortune on crumbs from the top table who parade around on the roof and advertise our merchandise. All’s good my son....

JL: But dad. It’s about the football. I thought you said you were a fan. That you wanted to make Bristol Proud.....

SL: Did I say that? Mark.....

MA: Before my time boss. But if you did I reckon you had crossed your fingers. And no one could have predicted COVID. Or our injuries. Or how you’d have to manage with FFP. Kerching. Get out of Jail free card. We will pass go. And we will keep the millions and millions........

JL: Daddddddd. That’s not on. It’s not what you said you’d do.

SL: Oh stop your ******* whining son. You’re getting to sound like Big Al. Look **** off and leave me and Mark here to manage the bigger picture. Now Mark. Get that Holden chappie on the phone.

MA: On it boss. Here he is.

SL: Hi. Is that Dan?

DH: It’s Dean Mr Lansdown.

SL: Ah yes. My mistake. At least I didn’t call you Chris. Or Paul. Or Steven. Or worse still, Lee...... Anyway bloody well done for yesterday. Particularly your post match interview.

DH: Thanks boss. I did my best. I said what Mr Ashton said I should.

SL: Please call me Mr Lansdown. I’m not “boss”, “gov” or “gaffer”. I’m Mr Lansdown. 

DH: Sorry gaf...... I mean Mr Lansdown.

SL: That’s ok. But anyway. The purpose of my call. Bloody well done. Especially that but when you talked about your gut and did like Joe does and pointed to your heart. Superb. And the tears in your eyes. And the quivering bottom lip. Oh yes. You were superb. 

DH: Thank you Mr Lansdown.

SL: Good man. We go again. More of the same on Tuesday please. Keep it up. No one will notice. And if they do?

SL MA & JL - all in nicely timed unison - **** ‘em......

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I said man rather than fan. And my obvious thoughts were Jordan Scudamore Royal among a few others, but thanks for the financial advice! I’ll remember that. 

Man or fan, i still don’t think you should constrain yourself...just get the best person (not best human).

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Man or fan, i still don’t think you should constrain yourself...just get the best person (not best human).

I agree about the ‘best human’ but the original comment was in the context of Tainton at Bristol Bears and the comparisons of the running of the clubs hierarchy there of! 
 

I don’t believe in constraints in most cases either, however we are constrained as a club right now I would contend. We need to try a different way and the Bears model is working, yes you can argue different sports offer different challenges, nevertheless the football club is hopelessly challenged right now. 

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Never heard of this chap.

Is he one of the Dorset Scudamore Royals ? 

 

Yes! 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I agree about the ‘best human’ but the original comment was in the context of Tainton at Bristol Bears and the comparisons of the running of the clubs hierarchy there of! 
 

I don’t believe in constraints in most cases either, however we are constrained as a club right now I would contend. We need to try a different way and the Bears model is working, yes you can argue different sports offer different challenges, nevertheless the football club is hopelessly challenged right now. 

Yes! 

Agree.

Are Bristol Bears “fortunate” that Tainton is skilled on both sides of the fence?  Tainton played in the amateur era I assume.  Do you know what his “day-job” was.  I note from LinkedIn that he held several post-playing coaching jobs, but was brand director for Puma.  I sense he has had a professional “day-job” outside of Rugby.

Do you know more?

[REDOXO]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.

Are Bristol Bears “fortunate” that Tainton is skilled on both sides of the fence?  Tainton played in the amateur era I assume.  Do you know what his “day-job” was.  I note from LinkedIn that he held several post-playing coaching jobs, but was brand director for Puma.  I sense he has had a professional “day-job” outside of Rugby.

Do you know more?

He is CEO of The Bears and according to Linked In is currently also an International Rugby Coach and Consultant.

Linked in can be notoriously unreliable. @Rinkadink may know more about his everyday affairs and to what extent they may be outside of AG and other stuff that he did. 

[CotswoldRed]

We have politicians in charge of day-to-day running, hence the detachment from fans.  Politicians that might be able to negotiate a few contracts well, but have poor records in football.

[tin]

The nearest thing to a City equivalent of Tainton would be Tinnion, IMO. I’m not advocating us going down that route but considering the job he’s done as loans manager, I could see him doing a job as DoF. I could also see the logic of  Scudamore as CEO. 

For what it’s worth, Swansea have gone down the route of getting football men in at board level. Ex-West Ham chairman Trevor Birch performs the same role there, and they even managed to tempt Andy Scott (formerly Brentford’s head of recruitment). We could do a lot worse.

[Davefevs]

Just now, tin said:

The nearest thing to a City equivalent of Tainton would be Tinnion, IMO. I’m not advocating us going down that route but considering the job he’s done as loans manager, I could see him doing a job as DoF. I could also see the logic of  Scudamore as CEO. 

For what it’s worth, Swansea have gone down the route of getting football men in at board level. Ex-West Ham chairman Trevor Birch performs the same role there, and they even managed to tempt Andy Scott (formerly Brentford’s head of recruitment). We could do a lot worse.

Exactly, a club who realised that you need both skill sets.

[BigAl&Toby]

He went to The Chase. Before it became Mangotsfield and produced our new LB.

The Chase. A fine school. Keith Curle. Shaun Pinker. Dave Lee. Andy Llewelyn. Mark Tainton.

Oh. And me

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

He went to The Chase. Before it became Mangotsfield and produced our new LB.

The Chase. A fine school. Keith Curle. Shaun Pinker. Dave Lee. Andy Llewelyn. Mark Tainton.

Oh. And me

Were you sub Al ?

[Rinkadink]

I'm not certain what Tainton did during the amateur era outside of rugby, if anything. He did play a lot of rugby and we are talking Bristol not Barf...

I don't know the round ball world well enough to say who my pick would be but Tinnion is something of a comparison. Not sure how well he'd go. Whoever steps up next might not have to be City first in the past, Pat Lam obviously wasn't Bears but I think he's starting to love Bristol much as he fell in love with Galway/Connacht. It's getting the right people (throughout the organisation) on board all singing from the same sheet.

[General Zod]

For me my relationship with the football club changed when GT interviewed Lansdown during one of Lee’s horrific winless runs.  Despite fans calling for Lee’s head Steve made it very clear that it was his club his money and that he called the shots.  At that moment it felt like a dictatorship and part of the (false) ownership I felt for my club died as i realised our views didn’t matter.  For me Steve took the fans lack of patience with Lee far too personally, most fans of other clubs would have been far less patient with the manager (let’s see how Sunderland fans treat him in similar circumstances) and from a club/fans relationship angle, it’s got worse from that moment on.  

[REDOXO]

4 hours ago, General Zod said:

For me my relationship with the football club changed when GT interviewed Lansdown during one of Lee’s horrific winless runs.  Despite fans calling for Lee’s head Steve made it very clear that it was his club his money and that he called the shots.  At that moment it felt like a dictatorship and part of the (false) ownership I felt for my club died as i realised our views didn’t matter.  For me Steve took the fans lack of patience with Lee far too personally, most fans of other clubs would have been far less patient with the manager (let’s see how Sunderland fans treat him in similar circumstances) and from a club/fans relationship angle, it’s got worse from that moment on.  

Yes I think there is a lot of truth here. I remember the interview well and it was clearly letting the supporters know, I will decide, inferring I don’t care what you say or think!

When you are at the head of an organization you have to have a little of that in you. You will be constantly scrutinized and internally face challenges from those who wish to undermine you. I would suggest that single mindedness emanates from HL. At a football club those who wish to undermine you are usually the supporters, who call in to radio shows moaning about the club and the hierarchy frequently, thus being the ones that eventually look like the enemy. Its little wonder owners retreat in to employing yes men under these circumstances. 

The problem is that, as a former chairman put it to me, you cant hide things from the supporters, they always find out. We are crap right now, that can not be hidden despite the millions upon millions spent on players, wages and academy. SL knows it he's not blind or stupid, but has he had enough to change direction yet?

My thought will always be Holden is saddled with largely LJ’s team and a few kids that really don’t shine like diamonds, but SL is determined not to be wrong again, even though he knows he probably was/is!

[marmite]

The conversation should go like this

SL. Right Mark, the only part of my Bristol Sport empire that is failing is the football. That is your remit, thereby your fault, so f"*k off.

SL. Jon, what the f"*k do you do all day. End

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, marmite said:

The conversation should go like this

SL. Right Mark, the only part of my Bristol Sport empire that is failing is the football. That is your remit, thereby your fault, so f"*k off.

SL. Jon, put the crayons down whilst I’m talking to you - what the f"*k do you do all day. End

Fixed