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IGNORED

Since Mark Ashton was on Geoff Twentyman


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5 hours ago, Olé said:

Towards the end of the transfer window Mark Ashton went on Geoff Twentyman's radio show. We had won a couple of games in a row including a 3-0 win away at Millwall in the cup, so it's always an ideal time for him to pop up. He even agreed with Geoff that he could come on regularly after that - he hasn't, but we all know how accountability goes with Mark.

Anyway, anyone that remembers the interview will know the significant topic was players out of contract. It was a bit of a bombshell as he said none of the players out of contract had been offered a contract yet (in fact he really laboured the point, trying to justify it). But he also said Fam had been made a "very good offer", which was an amazing bit of doublespeak.  

I know it seemed odd to a few people and was referenced a lot on here. The interview was also widely quoted in the local press in the following days for anyone that missed it. If you want to know what the players made of it, here you go:

  • Points per game before interview 1.56 (25 matches)
  • Points per game since interview 0.66 (15 matches)

Did you know the 7 straight defeats that cost Holden his job started right after this interview? Or the 7 straight defeats we're currently on at AG started right after this interview? In fact if you discount the 2 wins the week Pearson took over as a new manager bounce, it's 4 points in 39 (0.31 pg) since the show - not so much players downing tools as throwing them away.

You can make your own mind up if the two are linked. Were there things said that the players were surprised by? I have no great faith in the players position any longer but I do wonder if we wildly over-estimated the idea of "playing for your contract" as a motivational tool to the modern pro footballer whose agent is hoping to shop him around to another club anyway. 

In particular it seems to have been an odd message to give a group that months earlier we made very little secret were being indulged with their favourite unproven coach as manager: fantastic human, players love him. Once you go down a route of appeasing the squad, we lose credibility demanding things of them later. We're already played our hand as a soft touch.

And I think that's where we are now. The standards are through the floor in part due to last summers appointment and the message it sent within the club about expectations, and we've compounded it with a catastrophically public airing of players futures 10 weeks ago, that has apparently had anything but the reaction we expected. Quite a feat to make such a mess. 

I am out of likes but very well put and analysed. 

For me Ashton has to go along with the out of contract players, and indeed some of the in contract under performing ones. 

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Always in the limelight when something positive is going on the latest being the training ground . Taken out the firing line when the shit hits the fan. A lot of supporters hold Ashton accountable but Lansdown doesn’t. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like he’s of to Ipswich. IMO a fresh start is needed without him 

 

Cracking post by the way Ole

Edited by Red Army 75
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Steve absolutely loves the bloke though and it’s the fans who have got him all wrong. When it comes to footballing decisions the Board and Owner of this club are pretty much clueless.

A scenario where Lansdown states “Mark and I both agree that we need to get more out of these players and Nigel was not prepared to hang around and do that, we will advertise the job and advise in due course” is not as ridiculous as some might think.

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33 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Steve absolutely loves the bloke though and it’s the fans who have got him all wrong. When it comes to footballing decisions the Board and Owner of this club are pretty much clueless.

A scenario where Lansdown states “Mark and I both agree that we need to get more out of these players and Nigel was not prepared to hang around and do that, we will advertise the job and advise in due course” is not as ridiculous as some might think.

That sounds quite tenable at this point and so very Bristol City. 

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You can add that those players were told no contract discussions apart from one of you who we have made one of the largest contract offers ever in the clubs history. 

Well , Mr "I signed " needs to be accountable for the lack of any value left in the squad when those 12 players leave, the nonsense of contract discussions played out in public (and also  all expiring at the same time) and finally the overall lack of cohesion of the residual squad for next season. 

There is often the claim fans look for scapegoats, that is true, but when you have the mess of a squad that we have, and one person goes around telling the world, they are in charge of all things football, and only  last week was on video saying " I signed" . Note not the club signed, not "we" signed  but very clearly "I" ,then that person has had a very clear input into the creation of our highest ever wage bill, highest ever transfer investment squad. Look at the results. 

 

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Im sure that the players were aware that no contract offers would be made before that interview went out, they all have agents who are all keen for their clients to secure nice contracts.

i might be wrong, but i suspect the players are currently choking on pearson coming in and actually wanting some professionalism and passion and downed tools. 

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44 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Im sure that the players were aware that no contract offers would be made before that interview went out, they all have agents who are all keen for their clients to secure nice contracts.

i might be wrong, but i suspect the players are currently choking on pearson coming in and actually wanting some professionalism and passion and downed tools. 

It's one thing knowing that your not going to get a contract and another having the CEO announce it to the world, it takes away a bargaining chip and every club they go to is going to ask why haven't you been offered a new contract at Bristol City. 

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Ashton has been with us long enough now for us to suss how this works.

He appears in the media at the optimum moment for him & gives bland, corporate answers with a couple of blatant lies thrown in.

He was questioned about our injury situation & included in his waffle was the lie that Afobe chose to have his treatment with us, he said this of Mawson, too.

I don’t believe that Famara has been offered the best contract in our history (personally I like him, but if he has, that just shows shocking judgment) but many of our problems lie at Ashton’s door.

That does not for a minute excuse many of the gutless squad that we have, but he should follow very many of them out the door this summer.

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I think we’ve got two people at the top of the Club who genuinely thought they were qualified to develop a successful football team, but in reality, are no better than the average man in the street.

To his credit Jon - consciously or otherwise - realised that he was not qualified and has stepped away.

I believe Steve now realises he ain’t qualified and has brought in someone who is - Nigel Pearson.

That just leaves a deluded Ashton still peddling the myth that he’s a brilliant football man. 
 

To his massive credit, Steve has got the infrastructure right and that is a legacy that will last for decades. The Bristol Sport concept was also far-sighted and has merit. The investment on the playing side has, however, largely been wasted and now, by the looks of things, his interest is waning.

 

An interesting ride, but frankly on the playing side it feels we are as far off the Premier League as when Steve started.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Olé said:

Towards the end of the transfer window Mark Ashton went on Geoff Twentyman's radio show. We had won a couple of games in a row including a 3-0 win away at Millwall in the cup, so it's always an ideal time for him to pop up. He even agreed with Geoff that he could come on regularly after that - he hasn't, but we all know how accountability goes with Mark.

Anyway, anyone that remembers the interview will know the significant topic was players out of contract. It was a bit of a bombshell as he said none of the players out of contract had been offered a contract yet (in fact he really laboured the point, trying to justify it). But he also said Fam had been made a "very good offer", which was an amazing bit of doublespeak.  

I know it seemed odd to a few people and was referenced a lot on here. The interview was also widely quoted in the local press in the following days for anyone that missed it. If you want to know what the players made of it, here you go:

  • Points per game before interview 1.56 (25 matches)
  • Points per game since interview 0.66 (15 matches)

Did you know the 7 straight defeats that cost Holden his job started right after this interview? Or the 7 straight defeats we're currently on at AG started right after this interview? In fact if you discount the 2 wins the week Pearson took over as a new manager bounce, it's 4 points in 39 (0.31 pg) since the show - not so much players downing tools as throwing them away.

You can make your own mind up if the two are linked. Were there things said that the players were surprised by? I have no great faith in the players position any longer but I do wonder if we wildly over-estimated the idea of "playing for your contract" as a motivational tool to the modern pro footballer whose agent is hoping to shop him around to another club anyway. 

In particular it seems to have been an odd message to give a group that months earlier we made very little secret were being indulged with their favourite unproven coach as manager: fantastic human, players love him. Once you go down a route of appeasing the squad, we lose credibility demanding things of them later. We're already played our hand as a soft touch.

And I think that's where we are now. The standards are through the floor in part due to last summers appointment and the message it sent within the club about expectations, and we've compounded it with a catastrophically public airing of players futures 10 weeks ago, that has apparently had anything but the reaction we expected. Quite a feat to make such a mess. 

Excellent post, Rob.

For me, Ashton saying he "made one of the biggest contract offers this club has ever made to a player -- ever" to Fam would've pissed a lot of players off. That doesn't excuse the players' lack of professionalism ever since that interview, though. Fortunately, Pearson sees right through it. 

Ashton's poor judgement to a) make that offer to Fam when he's 29 this year with no resale value, and b) bleat about on local radio only strengthens the argument that he needs to go. If he's still around to oversee the rebuild required in the summer, a swift return to L1 beckons IMO. 

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8 hours ago, Olé said:

Towards the end of the transfer window Mark Ashton went on Geoff Twentyman's radio show. We had won a couple of games in a row including a 3-0 win away at Millwall in the cup, so it's always an ideal time for him to pop up. He even agreed with Geoff that he could come on regularly after that - he hasn't, but we all know how accountability goes with Mark.

Anyway, anyone that remembers the interview will know the significant topic was players out of contract. It was a bit of a bombshell as he said none of the players out of contract had been offered a contract yet (in fact he really laboured the point, trying to justify it). But he also said Fam had been made a "very good offer", which was an amazing bit of doublespeak.  

I know it seemed odd to a few people and was referenced a lot on here. The interview was also widely quoted in the local press in the following days for anyone that missed it. If you want to know what the players made of it, here you go:

  • Points per game before interview 1.56 (25 matches)
  • Points per game since interview 0.66 (15 matches)

Did you know the 7 straight defeats that cost Holden his job started right after this interview? Or the 7 straight defeats we're currently on at AG started right after this interview? In fact if you discount the 2 wins the week Pearson took over as a new manager bounce, it's 4 points in 39 (0.31 pg) since the show - not so much players downing tools as throwing them away.

You can make your own mind up if the two are linked. Were there things said that the players were surprised by? I have no great faith in the players position any longer but I do wonder if we wildly over-estimated the idea of "playing for your contract" as a motivational tool to the modern pro footballer whose agent is hoping to shop him around to another club anyway. 

In particular it seems to have been an odd message to give a group that months earlier we made very little secret were being indulged with their favourite unproven coach as manager: fantastic human, players love him. Once you go down a route of appeasing the squad, we lose credibility demanding things of them later. We're already played our hand as a soft touch.

And I think that's where we are now. The standards are through the floor in part due to last summers appointment and the message it sent within the club about expectations, and we've compounded it with a catastrophically public airing of players futures 10 weeks ago, that has apparently had anything but the reaction we expected. Quite a feat to make such a mess. 

This scenario reminds me of the time that MA (I think) made some comment about not pushing for promotion in January 2018. Even if it wasn’t financially viable due to FFP, I do think psychologically it had an effect on certain players especially Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid who beforehand were busting a gut beforehand and whose performances seemed to fizzle out afterwards.
This kind of talk from MA is just irresponsible, I don’t know what he is trying to achieve? Is he trying to upset team morale on purpose? SC was always mindful of not upsetting the squad re wages and contracts, whereas MA seems to think it a good bargaining or leverage tool. I just don’t understand the thinking behind it.

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14 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Still let’s looks at the positives.. thank god Diedhiou didn’t sign that contract. 

Fam has gone from player of the year to no effort in space of 9 months. He’s played us all as the smile hides the fact that he had no intention of signing despite everything he’s said about wanting to stay, tweets with egg timers etc.

Such a shame as will be remembered for the last 3 months rather than 3 years & personally will be glad to see the back of him now as inexcusable to not try & clearly not care!

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1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Fam has gone from player of the year to no effort in space of 9 months. He’s played us all as the smile hides the fact that he had no intention of signing despite everything he’s said about wanting to stay, tweets with egg timers etc.

Such a shame as will be remembered for the last 3 months rather than 3 years & personally will be glad to see the back of him now as inexcusable to not try & clearly not care!

As he has surely got another contract lined up. he is searching not to get injured. Recall Lyle Taylor refusing to play when leaving Charlton. 

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5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

As he has surely got another contract lined up. he is searching not to get injured. Recall Lyle Taylor refusing to play when leaving Charlton. 

More fool us for playing him as offered nothing so next to useless. I’d like to think professional pride would motivate you & the fact you’re still taking a wage but with our players clearly not.  I get fear of injury but he’s played a blinder with fans emotions & true colors showing now which is disappointing 

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4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Steve absolutely loves the bloke though and it’s the fans who have got him all wrong. When it comes to footballing decisions the Board and Owner of this club are pretty much clueless.

A scenario where Lansdown states “Mark and I both agree that we need to get more out of these players and Nigel was not prepared to hang around and do that, we will advertise the job and advise in due course” is not as ridiculous as some might think.

That feels like it's ever closer to likely. 

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Apart from getting good fees for a few players we have sold has he actually done anything else good for the club?

As far as I am aware he oversees basically everything other than picking the side and training? 

Our signings have been awful, the appointment of Holden was awful, the amount of injuries we get is awful. Surely all of these things are his responsibility? 

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9 hours ago, Olé said:

Towards the end of the transfer window Mark Ashton went on Geoff Twentyman's radio show. We had won a couple of games in a row including a 3-0 win away at Millwall in the cup, so it's always an ideal time for him to pop up. He even agreed with Geoff that he could come on regularly after that - he hasn't, but we all know how accountability goes with Mark.

Anyway, anyone that remembers the interview will know the significant topic was players out of contract. It was a bit of a bombshell as he said none of the players out of contract had been offered a contract yet (in fact he really laboured the point, trying to justify it). But he also said Fam had been made a "very good offer", which was an amazing bit of doublespeak.  

I know it seemed odd to a few people and was referenced a lot on here. The interview was also widely quoted in the local press in the following days for anyone that missed it. If you want to know what the players made of it, here you go:

  • Points per game before interview 1.56 (25 matches)
  • Points per game since interview 0.66 (15 matches)

Did you know the 7 straight defeats that cost Holden his job started right after this interview? Or the 7 straight defeats we're currently on at AG started right after this interview? In fact if you discount the 2 wins the week Pearson took over as a new manager bounce, it's 4 points in 39 (0.31 pg) since the show - not so much players downing tools as throwing them away.

You can make your own mind up if the two are linked. Were there things said that the players were surprised by? I have no great faith in the players position any longer but I do wonder if we wildly over-estimated the idea of "playing for your contract" as a motivational tool to the modern pro footballer whose agent is hoping to shop him around to another club anyway. 

In particular it seems to have been an odd message to give a group that months earlier we made very little secret were being indulged with their favourite unproven coach as manager: fantastic human, players love him. Once you go down a route of appeasing the squad, we lose credibility demanding things of them later. We're already played our hand as a soft touch.

And I think that's where we are now. The standards are through the floor in part due to last summers appointment and the message it sent within the club about expectations, and we've compounded it with a catastrophically public airing of players futures 10 weeks ago, that has apparently had anything but the reaction we expected. Quite a feat to make such a mess. 

Been saying it for weeks and weeks.  It is at the root of the problem.  Not just players playing for a contract, but those players then hearing Fam was offered a big contract.  Sad it was disastrous then, nothing has changed.  Some people thought MA was being clever with his slip-up on Sky. Haha.

6 hours ago, Harry said:

“We’ll see the value on the pitch”

🤣🤣😂😂

People laughed at me when I said he’d down tools.  What Fam?  He loves the club, he beats his chest, he’s from Knowle.

The contract situation should never have got this far.  It should never go into the final year, bar the odd exception.

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10 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

Apart from getting good fees for a few players we have sold has he actually done anything else good for the club?

As far as I am aware he oversees basically everything other than picking the side and training? 

Our signings have been awful, the appointment of Holden was awful, the amount of injuries we get is awful. Surely all of these things are his responsibility? 

You could argue that he’s just ridden an inflationary market rather than being a great negotiator, because he’s paid out lots in fees and wages too.  He doesn’t buy cheap, sell dear = great negotiator.  He buys dear also.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Been saying it for weeks and weeks.  It is at the root of the problem.  Not just players playing for a contract, but those players then hearing Fam was offered a big contract.  Sad it was disastrous then, nothing has changed.  Some people thought MA was being clever with his slip-up on Sky. Haha.

People laughed at me when I said he’d down tools.  What Fam?  He loves the club, he beats his chest, he’s from Knowle.

The contract situation should never have got this far.  It should never go into the final year, bar the odd exception.

I think a lot of people were thinking/saying the same. I don’t understand what MA was hoping to achieve?

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People always get found out over the longer term. If it's the case that BCFC got lucky with our gems, we may now be seeing that we're not as clever as we thought. 

Statistically you're always gonna get a good player or two pop up at some point, but don't fall into the trap of assuming it all happened because of management/boardroom talent. 

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4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Steve absolutely loves the bloke though and it’s the fans who have got him all wrong. When it comes to footballing decisions the Board and Owner of this club are pretty much clueless.

A scenario where Lansdown states “Mark and I both agree that we need to get more out of these players and Nigel was not prepared to hang around and do that, we will advertise the job and advise in due course” is not as ridiculous as some might think.

 

Once again, I have to agree with you 100%.

The scenario you outline is my worse fear and given that Lansdown has more or less intimated that he thinks the fans are clueless mugs when it comes to "his club" it isn't impossible.

Ashton (and Holden and Johnson) have created a near impossible situation for Pearson to show his managerial chops. He's hamstrung by the situation he inherited.

If Lansdown thought all it needed was a manager to come in and shout a bit at the players and frighten them, then he's been proved wrong.

As I said elsewhere, Lansdown has to be bold and trust in Pearson's vision for the club, not Mark Ashton's failed vision.

The nightmare scenario would be Pearson leaving, having not been granted the autonomy he'll want, and either Appleton or some "up-and-coming" manager (for which read cheap and inexperienced) being appointed. Or maybe even Simpson stepping up "because of post-Covid finances".

In an ideal world, Ashton would just **** off to Ipswich when their takeover goes through. Saves Steve having to make a decision.

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1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

Apart from getting good fees for a few players we have sold has he actually done anything else good for the club?

As far as I am aware he oversees basically everything other than picking the side and training? 

Our signings have been awful, the appointment of Holden was awful, the amount of injuries we get is awful. Surely all of these things are his responsibility? 

Nothing suggests that Ashton was the only person who could have secured those fees. 
They were very good players, with interest from Prem clubs / Prem parachute clubs, and it was a sellers market. 
If that’s his one good trait, I’d argue that he’s not the only person who could have done that. More down to quality of player, finances of purchasing club & market conditions. Plus, with our rebuild and new ambition, we were no longer ‘little Bristol City’, so we had players who were competing at the top end of the championship and therefore their value would have naturally increased. 
 

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It makes for a fascinating summer. I said back last summer that the appointment after LJ was not only a huge choice, but a clear indicator of what the club are trying to achieve. All the PR, buzz words and nonsense sound bytes couldn’t hide how low rent the Holden appointment was. There were options out there which made so much more sense if promotion was the aim. 
 

fast forward to now and you have the owner admitting that the plan post Holden was to give it to Keith and Paul until the end of the season until they then realised that would’ve meant relegation. Queue a hurried appointment of an excellent if a little volatile manager working with a terribly in balanced and low quality squad.

As an owner with lots of money and experience, with a clear agenda to win promotion, a background of backing managers, a stable off field set up - he must be asking “how have we ended up here?”

no where to hide now for certain people....

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4 hours ago, Shuffle said:

Don’t forget that on deadline day, Ashton tried to off load HNM out on loan ! That’s the football man running our club right there !

To that well knows & respected bastion of total football Birmingham, wasn't it?

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