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Are we coming up to a seismic time for the club?


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1 hour ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

He signed a "journeyman right-back", as you put it, on a short-term deal to help us out until the end of the season. It's not like Simpson was signed on a two-year deal and he's played ONE game for us. 

Look back over the last 15 or so years and you'll see the two times SL appointed what I consider to be proper managers they got off to slow starts.

  • Gary Johnson (3W 0D 10L, including 9 successive league and cup defeats)
  • Steve Cotterill (3W 4D 4L)
  • Nigel Pearson (3W 1D 5L)

The point I'm making, and this is lost to some in an era of instant gratification, is that we have a proven leader -- the type the club has been crying out for -- and he needs to be given time in the same ways other riskier appointments have done. Both GJ and SC led us to promotion and I think NP could also do that. He knows what he's doing, he's knows the problems, and he's willing to sort out the mess he's inherited. 

Our problems go deeper than a bunch of wasters on the pitch and they stem from the boardroom. I doubt Pep could get more out of these gutless players right now. 

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5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely but that’s not down to Nige. He did managed three decent away wins at Boro, Brum and Swansea tho.

It’s the home form that’s a real issue. One explanation for that is the absence of fans particularly home fans. I read recently that in the Championship this season there have been more away wins that in previous seasons - is that coincidence?       :dunno:

I could kind of agree with that to a point. But 7 in a row. That is definitely pointing towards something alot deeper rooted. And something NP has clearly not been able to solve. Then there was the dross that has now lost away to Coventry. 

This is alarming. 

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2 hours ago, Atticus said:

TBH I wouldn't even be to bothered if Pearson left. He has helped in exactly zero way. Its been a huge underwhelming appointment in terms of results.

What we need is a huge clear out of personnel. We have too many players here that are either not good enough or just dont want to be here. Get rid of them. As many as possible to be honest.

We also need to be rid of the likes of Ashton. Thats a given. The players we have signed this season have been absolutely shocking.

 

So once we have the big clear out of players, who do you entrust to recruit the ones to take us forward.

And when do you start that planning?

MA can’t do that 2 Windows ahead, because he has no idea what he’s recruiting for / towards....and he’s not very good at it either.

Clubs and their agents will have already been tentatively sounding out those free agents, the Mowatt’s and Powell’s of the world.  We will have missed the boat if we wait til after the season ends.

It would be an even bigger gamble to decide then than NP isn’t the man and then have to find another manager.  We need some continuity.  We need it fast.  NP has done all the groundwork, identified the problems, ready to fire into action.  He probably wants to tell a few players to not bother coming to training, but whilst he’s uncertain about his future how can he do that to a player?

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

Journeyman?

31 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is your definition of "journeyman"? Someone who went to Leicester City and won a Premier League medal? I get you might think he's "past it" but it's odd to label him a "journeyman" in my opinion. You may as well call any player that plays for more than two clubs in their career a journeyman. Is there a possibility that he has been signed to be NP's "eyes and ears" in the dressing room?

Thank you.

16 minutes ago, Atticus said:

They were certainly not this abysmal under Johnson though.  These are professional football players. The fact that a new manager has literally not done anything to even remotely motivate them is alarming to me. 

So professional that how many times did LJ have to pick the “trusted ones”....and then the next game pick the “other trusted ones” because the original trusted ones weren’t the right trusted ones.

We’ve recruited a bunch of players more fickle than our fans!  We became more abysmal as each SOD and Cotts player left and was replaced.  It’s a bit like back to the future that as each player left a bit more of the photo of Marty (Keith Burt) and his two siblings (Sean and Steve) got erased.  Our squad is a bit like the D’Lorian....nice doors but a shit car underneath.

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

So once we have the big clear out of players, who do you entrust to recruit the ones to take us forward.

And when do you start that planning?

MA can’t do that 2 Windows ahead, because he has no idea what he’s recruiting for / towards....and he’s not very good at it either.

Clubs and their agents will have already been tentatively sounding out those free agents, the Mowatt’s and Powell’s of the world.  We will have missed the boat if we wait til after the season ends.

It would be an even bigger gamble to decide then than NP isn’t the man and then have to find another manager.  We need some continuity.  We need it fast.  NP has done all the groundwork, identified the problems, ready to fire into action.  He probably wants to tell a few players to not bother coming to training, but whilst he’s uncertain about his future how can he do that to a player?

Journeyman?

Thank you.

So professional that how many times did LJ have to pick the “trusted ones”....and then the next game pick the “other trusted ones” because the original trusted ones weren’t the right trusted ones.

We’ve recruited a bunch of players more fickle than our fans!  We became more abysmal as each SOD and Cotts player left and was replaced.  It’s a bit like back to the future that as each player left a bit more of the photo of Marty (Keith Burt) and his two siblings (Sean and Steve) got erased.  Our squad is a bit like the D’Lorian....nice doors but a shit car underneath.

 

Yet the trusted ones, and "other tusted ones" are all complete dross now when Johnson has gone.

Im no Johnson fanboy at all. But I choose to question whether NP is our saviour, and hold sever reservations about what our recruitment in the summer may be under him. 

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3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Yet the trusted ones, and "other tusted ones" are all complete dross now when Johnson has gone.

Im no Johnson fanboy at all. But I choose to question whether NP is our saviour, and hold sever reservations about what our recruitment in the summer may be under him. 

Well if NP can put the Leicester team together that went on to win the Premiership then I really hope he is the one who rebuilds our squad. And what has NP done to give you such severe reservations about his ability to do this. 

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16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely but that’s not down to Nige. He did managed three decent away wins at Boro, Brum and Swansea tho.

It’s the home form that’s a real issue. One explanation for that is the absence of fans particularly home fans. I read recently that in the Championship this season there have been more away wins that in previous seasons - is that coincidence?       :dunno:

..... no coincedence at all I would have thought, they were probably all at our place .... we’ve lost 11 at home after all!!!

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2 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Well if NP can put the Leicester team together that went on to win the Premiership then I really hope he is the one who rebuilds our squad. And what has NP done to give you such severe reservations about his ability to do this. 

Well, the results happening for one. This is no different to Holden. 

That was a while ago now. I would attribute that title winning team as much probably more to Ranieri since he was the manager that won them the league. Not Pearson. 

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12 minutes ago, tin said:

He signed a "journeyman right-back", as you put it, on a short-term deal to help us out until the end of the season. It's not like Simpson was signed on a two-year deal and he's played ONE game for us. 

Look back over the last 15 or so years and you'll see the two times SL appointed what I consider to be proper managers they got off to slow starts.

  • Gary Johnson (3W 0D 10L)
  • Steve Cotterill (3W 4D 4L)
  • Nigel Pearson (3W 1D 5L)

The point I'm making, and this is lost to some in an era of instant gratification, is that we have a proven leader -- the type the club has been crying out for -- and he needs to be given time in the same ways other riskier appointments have done. Both GJ and SC led us to promotion and I think NP could also do that. He knows what he's doing, he's knows the problems, and he's willing to sort it the mess he's inherited. 

Our problems go deeper than a bunch of wasters on the pitch and they stem from the boardroom. I doubt Pep could get more out of these gutless players right now. 

I wish more people would read this.  The few that are starting to post their disappointment at Nigel or concern that the results under him aren't great are forgetting he has absolutely no room to change the squad that is a) full of players that are leaving, b) has an injury list to contend with that has gutted our starting 11. 

How anyone can begin to judge him without giving him a time to build his team is beyond belief. 

He has to be given a chance. I'm just hoping he wants to be here. 

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4 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

I wish more people would read this.  The few that are starting to post their disappointment at Nigel or concern that the results under him aren't great are forgetting he has absolutely no room to change the squad that is a) full of players that are leaving, b) has an injury list to contend with that has gutted our starting 11. 

How anyone can begin to judge him without giving him a time to build his team is beyond belief. 

He has to be given a chance. I'm just hoping he wants to be here. 

But there is an issue here. Of course that can be used as a valid excuse for him, but they are still a squad of professional players. The likes of Wells, Fam, Palmer, Hunt, Kalas, Lansbury, etc are all championship experienced. Yet we are utter utter dross. When do these excuses start becoming just that. Excuses.

I wouldn't be so concerned if we saw an uptick in performance. But we are ******* dire. 

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1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Congratulations on demonstrating total ignorance of what a financial manager's role is in a major enterprise.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me? And without the sarcasm please. I'm always ready to accept other's views and to learn from my mistakes and errors.

At almost every company that I've worked at, even the accountants have acknowledged that a company headed by an accountant, will be too cautious in it's outlook for the future. That doesn't mean crazy gambling but in all businesses and even ordinary life, there are times to take a chance rather than sit on one's hands. Far too often, it appears that SL does the latter. He sits at the crossroads rather than make a decision.

That is why a club like Norwich will soon be getting their seventh promotion to the top tier since 1970 while were last there forty years ago.

@SecretSam over to you.

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18 minutes ago, Atticus said:

But there is an issue here. Of course that can be used as a valid excuse for him, but they are still a squad of professional players. The likes of Wells, Fam, Palmer, Hunt, Kalas, Lansbury, etc are all championship experienced. Yet we are utter utter dross. When do these excuses start becoming just that. Excuses.

I wouldn't be so concerned if we saw an uptick in performance. But we are ******* dire. 

I think we’re in an unprecedented position atm, with a huge number of ooc players, who are clearly demonstrating they couldn’t give a shit where this club ends up at the end of this season.  Make no mistake, for all we know, we could have been getting severe dickings every match if DH was still here now.

I suspect we’ve got a few ‘rotten apples’ in our barrel and they’re dragging the whole squad down and I wonder if any manager would be able to turn that round.

Wouldn’t happen of course, but I’d love to see any ringleaders shown the door right now and hopefully get some positivity back, but obviously won’t happen for many reasons.

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19 minutes ago, Atticus said:

But there is an issue here. Of course that can be used as a valid excuse for him, but they are still a squad of professional players. The likes of Wells, Fam, Palmer, Hunt, Kalas, Lansbury, etc are all championship experienced. Yet we are utter utter dross. When do these excuses start becoming just that. Excuses.

I wouldn't be so concerned if we saw an uptick in performance. But we are ******* dire. 

There has been a small improvement in performance but I admit it is small. When Holden left, when our wasters completely downed tools, we were averaging something like 1-2 shots per game, lucky to even earn a corner some games and getting humiliated over a number of weeks. Even our captain had a bizarre rant about the fact that all we did was defend and never attacked. Holden had to go because of that. The players royally stitched him up and there was only ever going to be one casualty in that situation.

Our stats now are not as bad as that but the same players have shown me that they have no shame, no regard for the fans, no personal or professional pride and are prepared yet again to withdraw the effort at the first sign that they do not like what is going down with the new Manager. That's why I have such disdain for them and will not be upset whoever is chucked out of the door. Almost every single one of them over the age of 22/23 can go as far as I'm concerned (I realise it won't happen like that but there are very few individuals I would be disappointed to see leave - fingers on one hand job). They rank amongst the biggest group of shithouses ever to represent this club and it is very apt to be honest that they have proven that pretty much the only way they can get a result is to shithouse a result. Most of them lack ability at Championship level and nearly all of them lack the attitude needed at this football club. If they aren't lazy then they seem to be soft as shit.....either way, no good to us.

The difference between Pearson and Holden is that many of these players are out of contract and we can now fight them, ask them politely not to let the door hit their arse on the way out etc. Pearson has shown that when he is left with HIS backroom staff to build a squad he has more than enough ability to get the job done. We are in an almost unique situation where we can give NP a fairly blank sheet of paper and ask him to go and build a squad over the next couple of seasons and get the job done. I would give him that opportunity if it was my football club.

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10 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Yet the trusted ones, and "other tusted ones" are all complete dross now when Johnson has gone.

Im no Johnson fanboy at all. But I choose to question whether NP is our saviour, and hold sever reservations about what our recruitment in the summer may be under him. 

The real (slim shady) trusted ones were the likes of Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Weimann....they drove standards, they were the ones ensuring their teammates kept their levels (as NP stated).

The obvious observation is that none of those are here or in Weimann’s case, fit.

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I suppose my main worry is. We just scrap survival this season. Np gets a contract, all of our out of contract players are released. The its a big rebuild job. What does NP go for? He has already signed a former player in DS. A 34 yo. I dont want our team to be filled with a bunch of 30+ year olds on big wages on frees. How has that helped us this season? Lansbury is utter shite, Martin, ineffective before being injured, Brunt, useless, Mariappa the odd good game and some shockers. This could really badly backfire. Not just in terms of league position, but financially too.

Plus, losing the likes of Baker for that too. Thats a shame. Its sad he has been injured the whole season, because i think he is utterly immense for us, and see him as a far better centre back then Kalas personally. 

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13 minutes ago, Atticus said:

But there is an issue here. Of course that can be used as a valid excuse for him, but they are still a squad of professional players. The likes of Wells, Fam, Palmer, Hunt, Kalas, Lansbury, etc are all championship experienced. Yet we are utter utter dross. When do these excuses start becoming just that. Excuses.

I wouldn't be so concerned if we saw an uptick in performance. But we are ******* dire. 

I guess that if NP bombs out a player for not applying himself adequately during a game that could and has probably caused issues in the squad. We don’t have the flexibility to do that currently because it’s of said injuries and lack of quality. NP has to be careful how he manages these players, and can’t take such a tough line as he would usually. 
The players need to take a look at themselves but if there is a lot going on behind the scenes re board room etc then everyone will be unsettled

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The real (slim shady) trusted ones were the likes of Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Weimann....they drove standards, they were the ones ensuring their teammates kept their levels (as NP stated).

The obvious observation is that none of those are here or in Weimann’s case, fit.

I feel we have actually missed Weimenn and Baker immensely!

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1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I guess that if NP bombs out a player for not applying himself adequately during a game that could and has probably caused issues in the squad. We don’t have the flexibility to do that currently because it’s of said injuries and lack of quality. NP has to be careful how he manages these players, and can’t take such a tough line as he would usually. 
The players need to take a look at themselves but if there is a lot going on behind the scenes re board room etc then everyone will be unsettled

NP doesn't have the authority to do it full stop. If he was full-time Manager you might well be seeing some players leaving fully paid up for the rest of the season.

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2 hours ago, Atticus said:

TBH I wouldn't even be to bothered if Pearson left. He has helped in exactly zero way. Its been a huge underwhelming appointment in terms of results.

What we need is a huge clear out of personnel. We have too many players here that are either not good enough or just dont want to be here. Get rid of them. As many as possible to be honest.

We also need to be rid of the likes of Ashton. Thats a given. The players we have signed this season have been absolutely shocking.

 

So if you yourself can see some of them don't want to be here, or aren't good enough, why do you think Pearson should be able to turn them into highly motivated world beaters???

Yes results have been disappointing but it's ludicrous to think this is a reflection of Pearson's abilities when next season he'll have new players, new mindset, a fresh start. Plus, with a bit of luck, some clarity off the field about our ownership, maybe even a different CEO, hopefully a competent medical team - never under estimate how things going awry off the field are always reflected on it, too. 

Rightly or wrongly, too many players are on the beach thinking we're safe from relegation. Why is Diedhiou, as just an example, going to bust a gut for anyone now? He just wants to stay in one piece before signing a fat new contract somewhere else. Which is understandable - unless you're a City fan, in which case it's infuriating.           

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16 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me? And without the sarcasm please. I'm always ready to accept other's views and to learn from my mistakes and errors.

At almost every company that I've worked at, even the accountants have acknowledged that a company headed by an accountant, will be too cautious in it's outlook for the future. That doesn't mean crazy gambling but in all businesses and even ordinary life, there are times to take a chance rather than sit on one's hands. Far too often, it appears that SL does the latter. He sits at the crossroads rather than make a decision.

That is why a club like Norwich will soon be getting their seventh promotion to the top tier since 1970 while were last there forty years ago.

@SecretSam over to you.

A wide variety of accusations are levelled at accountant managers, ranging from short-termism, a lack of interest in long-term investment, a penny-pinching attitude and, above all, an unwillingness to take risks. The logic is flawless.

Accountants are trained from the start to apply the principle of prudence to company accounts so they will be equally cautious when they become managers.

The trouble with this argument is that there is no evidence for it.

https://www.accountancyage.com/1997/10/17/the-myth-of-the-cautious-manager/

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26 minutes ago, Atticus said:

But there is an issue here. Of course that can be used as a valid excuse for him, but they are still a squad of professional players. The likes of Wells, Fam, Palmer, Hunt, Kalas, Lansbury, etc are all championship experienced. Yet we are utter utter dross. When do these excuses start becoming just that. Excuses.

I wouldn't be so concerned if we saw an uptick in performance. But we are ******* dire. 

Sorry, can't agree with those sweeping statements.

Play Wells in his rightful position in an attacking side and he will core goals. He's doing a job for the team and with his improved work rate we're getting more out of him.

Palmer is playing his best football on a more consistent level.

Lansbury comes in for a lot of criticism but is neat and tidy and it's no coincidence that HNM plays better when he's in the side.

Kalas has blocked more shots than anybody in the Championship.

The improvements in these players' form alone since NP took over is very noticeable.

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1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So if you yourself can see some of them don't want to be here, or aren't good enough, why do you think Pearson should be able to turn them into highly motivated world beaters???

Yes results have been disappointing but it's ludicrous to think this is a reflection of Pearson's abilities when next season he'll have new players, new mindset, a fresh start. Plus, with a bit of luck, some clarity off the field about our ownership, maybe even a different CEO, hopefully a competent medical team - never under estimate how things going awry off the field are always reflected on it, too. 

Rightly or wrongly, too many players are on the beach thinking we're safe from relegation. Why is Diedhiou, as just an example, going to bust a gut for anyone now? He just wants to stay in one piece before signing a fat new contract somewhere else. Which is understandable - unless you're a City fan, in which case it's infuriating.           

Absolutely not expecting us to be world beaters. 

What I would expect from a new manager, especially one of "NP" credentials, is some kind of a result at home, at some point.

Not happening though is it. We may as well have Holden in charge tbh, I dont think we would be any worse off. 

That is really disappointing as a fan, and very underwhelming as an owner I would suspect.

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2 minutes ago, Swede said:

Sorry, can't agree with those sweeping statements.

Play Wells in his rightful position in an attacking side and he will core goals. He's doing a job for the team and with his improved work rate we're getting more out of him.

Palmer is playing his best football on a more consistent level.

Lansbury comes in for a lot of criticism but is neat and tidy and it's no coincidence that HNM plays better when he's in the side.

Kalas has blocked more shots than anybody in the Championship.

The improvements in these players' form alone since NP took over is very noticeable.

We have done plenty of times. The guy is either shite or cant be assed. 

If this is Palmer at his most consistent, we really should look to get rid. 

Lansbury is ****, the sooner we are ridder of him the better. 

 

This is a team that cannot beat toffee in front of them. Home or away.

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19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The real (slim shady) trusted ones were the likes of Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Weimann....they drove standards, they were the ones ensuring their teammates kept their levels (as NP stated).

The obvious observation is that none of those are here or in Weimann’s case, fit.

We’ve often bemoaned the fact that we’re lacking leaders on the pitch.  

Maybe the leading has now been taken up by the want-out brigade!

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Seismic is probably an understatement. If you were SL and you sat the players down and said “right guys, what is the problem, tell me?”

Some of the excuses/answers would be -

1.  No direction/team strategy for the last 2 seasons

2. Unsure who the future manager will be in a few weeks time

3. Unsure who the future owner/CEO/chairman will be

4. Unsure if I will get a new contract

Quite frankly, the club appears to be in a shambles currently and is lacking in direction from the top. NP may not be the messiah but to me it is obvious that he will give direction. And in time, performances will improve.

 

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16 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So if you yourself can see some of them don't want to be here, or aren't good enough, why do you think Pearson should be able to turn them into highly motivated world beaters???

Yes results have been disappointing but it's ludicrous to think this is a reflection of Pearson's abilities when next season he'll have new players, new mindset, a fresh start. Plus, with a bit of luck, some clarity off the field about our ownership, maybe even a different CEO, hopefully a competent medical team - never under estimate how things going awry off the field are always reflected on it, too. 

Rightly or wrongly, too many players are on the beach thinking we're safe from relegation. Why is Diedhiou, as just an example, going to bust a gut for anyone now? He just wants to stay in one piece before signing a fat new contract somewhere else. Which is understandable - unless you're a City fan, in which case it's infuriating.           

A way of resetting standards is by outlining expectations. Mr Pearson is fond of that word clarity, so was Mr Johnson. The team needs clarity of purpose and expectations. A reset. At present its star man up top sets a standard, a low bar that isn't dissimilar to his old low bar, it just a % lower, no improvement . That lack of effort has been playing regularly as it did under Mr Johnson.

Its been disappointing seeing Mr Pearson repeating the same mistakes, playing shysters .. Playing poor standards, giving the easy riders their comfy place in the XI is an odd way of motivating others. 

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12 minutes ago, Swede said:

Sorry, can't agree with those sweeping statements.

Play Wells in his rightful position in an attacking side and he will score goals. He's doing a job for the team and with his improved work rate we're getting more out of him.

Palmer is playing his best football on a more consistent level.

Lansbury comes in for a lot of criticism but is neat and tidy and it's no coincidence that HNM plays better when he's in the side.

Kalas has blocked more shots than anybody in the Championship.

The improvements in these players' form alone since NP took over is very noticeable.

Re Wells... That's just a theory at the moment isn't it? He might not. 

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1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

 

I'll just leave this bit here. 

WARNING to any passers-by: You may spend the rest of the day pissing yourself. Literally. 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but not all opinions are credible.    

Holden actually got a few wins early on believe it or not.

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