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Mason Mount - European Cup


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Just now, Portland Bill said:

I think the proof is over the last 30 years. Ever since top foreign players came over here. We think our players are top drawer when they do it for their clubs.

But it’s shown time and time again, that at International football when they haven’t got these top foreign players supplying them, they come up short. 

I agree with your point in the case of Sterling where he ghosts past players for both England/Man City but at Man City he has a choice of FOUR players to cross to and only TWO for England meaning a bit more difficulty and therefore higher quality of delivery is required when he is playing for England.......and he comes up well short. Foden on the other hand is just a quality player whether he's playing with foreigners or English players.............I would be willing to bet that there isn't one single top club in Europe that would refuse to take Phil Foden if they could get their hands on him. Same with Harry Kane.

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13 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I think the proof is over the last 30 years. Ever since top foreign players came over here. We think our players are top drawer when they do it for their clubs.

But it’s shown time and time again, that at International football when they haven’t got these top foreign players supplying them, they come up short. 

Its about the mentality of the players and ability of the manager - its nothing to do with the actual ability of the players as that isn't in question. If they weren't good enough they wouldn't be playing 50 games a season and delivering in the PL and CL.

Although I'm no massive Southgate fan the one thing I think he has done is got the players caring about the national side again unlike the golden generation who only really cared about club football. The only question mark left for me is his tactical nouse versus the big sides at the big moments. 

These players are good enough and its now down to Southgate to get the best out of them so we can actually do something.

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6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I agree with your point in the case of Sterling where he ghosts past players for both England/Man City but at Man City he has a choice of FOUR players to cross to and only TWO for England meaning a bit more difficulty and therefore higher quality of delivery is required when he is playing for England.......and he comes up well short. Foden on the other hand is just a quality player whether he's playing with foreigners or English players.............I would be willing to bet that there isn't one single top club in Europe that would refuse to take Phil Foden if they could get their hands on him. Same with Harry Kane.

I think Mount is starting to show the quality of touch, movement and skill that would make him a capable player at any of the top European clubs. The deal breaker is that he has end product too, whether that be crossing, passing or shooting. Sheer class. 

Now he has to sustain it.

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Just now, mozo said:

I think Mount is starting to show the quality of touch, movement and skill that would make him a capable player at any of the top European clubs. The deal breaker is that he has end product too, whether that be crossing, passing or shooting. Sheer class. 

Now he has to sustain it.

I agree very much with your last bit. How many players have we seen over the years have a great 6 months............and that's all it ever turned out to be.

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15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I agree very much with your last bit. How many players have we seen over the years have a great 6 months............and that's all it ever turned out to be.

Dele Alli was world class for a year and now he looks like he's got not chance of Euros 

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5 minutes ago, mozo said:

Dele Alli was world class for a year and now he looks like he's got not chance of Euros 

Bit like Jesse Lingard - his priorities in life changed and then his form was awful. If Alli gets his act together he could again become a player like Lingard is showing. Real shame for some of these players that they lose interest or whatever.

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

I think the proof is over the last 30 years. Ever since top foreign players came over here. We think our players are top drawer when they do it for their clubs.

But it’s shown time and time again, that at International football when they haven’t got these top foreign players supplying them, they come up short. 

I don't really get this point as surely if that was the case the English player would be replaced by a better foreign player at club level as well? 

The "golden generation" for example were all class players and it wasn't down to they had better players at club level. It was down to the players not separating rivalry at international level and tactics of never switch from the English 4 4 2

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

I think the proof is over the last 30 years. Ever since top foreign players came over here. We think our players are top drawer when they do it for their clubs.

But it’s shown time and time again, that at International football when they haven’t got these top foreign players supplying them, they come up short. 

I don't really get this point as surely if that was the case the English player would be replaced by a better foreign player at club level as well? 

The "golden generation" for example were all class players and it wasn't down to they had better players at club level. It was down to the players not separating rivalry at international level and tactics of never switch from the English 4 4 2

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44 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Bit like Jesse Lingard - his priorities in life changed and then his form was awful. If Alli gets his act together he could again become a player like Lingard is showing. Real shame for some of these players that they lose interest or whatever.

I'm not convinced that Lingard ever had world class potential but I agree that he fits the description otherwise.

It's all about having that drive to keep improving and keep winning. The really great players don't lose it.

It's clear that Dele Alli has lost focus and has been distracted by the 'the life'. 

Imagine if some of our own players like Paterson, Bakinson and Palmer had that level of determination!

Edited by mozo
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4 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm not convinced that Lingard ever had world class potential but I agree that he fits the description otherwise.

It's all about having that drive to keep improving and keep winning. The really great players don't lose it.

It's clear that Dele Alli has lost focus and has been distracted by the 'the life'. 

Imagine if some of our own players like Paterson, Bakinson and Palmer had that level of determination!

Oh yeh he's not world class - neither are. But both can be very good when bothered.

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18 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Not sure why a while back so many were saying he was crap. It seemed like it just became a fashionable thing to say on social media. Always thought he looked an absolutely class player.

Some cant look past Club rivalries

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Some cant look past Club rivalries

Yeah probably a factor. I also think sometimes players just become fashionable to slag off on social media. I bet many of those doing that would not have even known how to describe Mason Mount as a player and what they felt he was not good at for them to say how rubbish he is.

Rice was one as well before. Though to be fair I thought he struggled a bit at times in his earlier caps. What a player he now looks. Southgate being proven right sticking with those 2.

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9 hours ago, Littlesh*t said:

I don't really get this point as surely if that was the case the English player would be replaced by a better foreign player at club level as well? 

The "golden generation" for example were all class players and it wasn't down to they had better players at club level. It was down to the players not separating rivalry at international level and tactics of never switch from the English 4 4 2

I don't really get this point as surely if that was the case the English player would be replaced by a better foreign player at club level as well? 

The "golden generation" for example were all class players and it wasn't down to they had better players at club level. It was down to the players not separating rivalry at international level and tactics of never switch from the English 4 4 2

Personally I think we tend to overestimate how good our players are in this country, the hype is enormous.

This so called golden generation team wasn’t good enough, simply because lots of other countries produce better players than we do, and we’re too good for us when it mattered.

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10 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Its about the mentality of the players and ability of the manager - its nothing to do with the actual ability of the players as that isn't in question. If they weren't good enough they wouldn't be playing 50 games a season and delivering in the PL and CL.

Although I'm no massive Southgate fan the one thing I think he has done is got the players caring about the national side again unlike the golden generation who only really cared about club football. The only question mark left for me is his tactical nouse versus the big sides at the big moments. 

These players are good enough and its now down to Southgate to get the best out of them so we can actually do something.

We have been saying the same thing for 90 years! One WC final ( at home)  is all we have to show.

Sorry, but as an International team ( except for that one time) we have never been good enough, I don’t see that changing with the latest crop of players. 

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Bit of a tangent but I'd be interested to see everyone's ideal England side since the year 2000. 

I've had a think but can't pick an 11. The first 11 from 2004-2006 was very strong really, just lacked balance. You'd imagine all of Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard from that era would get into a midfield 3 in this current side - likewise Rio, Campbell, Cole and Rooney too. I think Kane and Trent would make it. Kane an easy one and I think Trent has more to his game than Gary Neville. 

It gets a bit interesting comparing the likes of Sancho and Sterling to Beckham. Very different style of 'winger'. Might be slightly rose tinted but I think Beckham's leadership and ability to seize the initiative is crucial.. but then again there are plenty of others (Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Scholes) who could also do that from that era.

Amazing really we achieved so little with that 2004-2006 generation. Such a huge shame. 

 

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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11 hours ago, mozo said:

Dele Alli was world class for a year and now he looks like he's got not chance of Euros 

Old saying 

Form is temporary Class is permanent 

Alli was only ever in good form Nothing class about him

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16 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Bit of a tangent but I'd be interested to see everyone's ideal England side since the year 2000. 

I've had a think but can't pick an 11. The first 11 from 2004-2006 was very strong really, just lacked balance. You'd imagine all of Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard from that era would get into a midfield 3 in this current side - likewise Rio, Campbell, Cole and Rooney too. I think Kane and Trent would make it. Kane an easy one and I think Trent has more to his game than Gary Neville. 

It gets a bit interesting comparing the likes of Sancho and Sterling to Beckham. Very different style of 'winger'. Might be slightly rose tinted but I think Beckham's leadership and ability to seize the initiative is crucial.. but then again there are plenty of others (Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Scholes) who could also do that from that era.

Amazing really we achieved so little with that 2004-2006 generation. Such a huge shame. 

 

I’ll have a go...

 

                         Seaman

 

  Walker      Terry        Rio       Cole

 

                Gerrard   Lampard  

Beckham                                  Sterling

                 Kane       Rooney 

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