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IGNORED

Our Fans are the problem, not Mark Ashton or Steve Lansdown


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1 minute ago, HappyClapper said:
1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness, Mark Ashton did get rid of the DoF as part of his promotion from COO to CEO.  So we had someone in place.  Keith Burt, as I mentioned in an earlier post ran the playing budget, did existing contract renewals, signed players, did the contracts for those new players, ran the scouting network, analysts.

A certain MA, decided he wanted to encapsulate that element into his new role.  Over time he’s also diminished the scouting network (Day, Griffin etc) ...it’s much more data / video based now.  

Not enough succession planning Spud.

I do appreciate sometimes you have to sell first to buy (trading).

I sit here with my depth chart and think our squad is unbalanced, not just positionally (and cover), but age range, contract status.

I made a point the other day that of what I’d call the proper first team players only 5 had ever signed a contract extension in Ashton’s time here.  Pack, Smith, Brownhill, O’Dowda and Paterson.  T.Moore also.  I did miss off Flint, so corrected.  So just 3 players signed in the MA era.  That to me sounds like we’ve not recruited with longevity, and we’ve been reactionary.

Contract-wise we’ve been tardy in really identifying who we want to keep and then re-contracting them early enough.

We are seeing the impact of that with players getting into their final year, or us having to exercise options.

Matty Taylor, Bailey Wright.  Both we let out on loan, there’s no way we recouped their full wage, so it cost us.  Why didn’t we try to sell them if we’d identified we wouldn’t extend their contract.

Eliasson, Walsh, exercised their option, but can’t get them to sign.  At least we got £2m for Eliasson.  That’s ok in my book, although we could’ve sold him when the market was higher.

Diedhiou and Baker....£9m of asset value now worth zero.

I think it points to the guy doing the contract renewals (MA) and the head-coach (LJ in most cases) not being ruthless enough both on who we bring in and how long we keep them.

I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, in fact I’d like to hear the alternative view, because what I’ve painted doesn’t look good.  Part of me wants to have missed some glaringly obvious point so I can rest easy it’s not been as bad as I thought.  But I’ve yet to hear it (I think).

Died

That was sudden. Condolences.

Expand  

Haha....where did that come from.  No idea I ended on such a sad note 🤣🤣🤣

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Let Mark Ashton run Bristol Sport, and all it entails, but not the player / footballing side of it. He really should be commercial only, there is more than enough to do there, especially with all the projects coming up.

 

Also, why exactly do we need a voice at the EFL ? What exactly is it we are saying / getting that other clubs don't ?

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

On reflection, I do wonder if it is something to do with the people (ie all of us: fans, club owners, players, directors, club officials etc) of this area. When you look at all sport we are from this part of the country, doing well if we're second rate, and often not that good.

We are just a bit shite at sport - shite at supporting, shite at playing, shite at owning and shite at running top class clubs, shite in general. When compared to the rest of the country. 

I was looking at a review of the county cricket clubs for the new season and it listed every club and how often they had won the county Championship - or not. Only three counties have never won it, Northants and guess who?

Compare Bristol with Leicester, for example:

Football - Bristol: nil major trophies, nine seasons of top class football between two clubs, Gary Mabbutt most notable player produced for England; Leicester - 4 major trophies, 51 seasons at the top, 4 (losing) FA cup finals, produced likes of Lineker and Shilton, and Emile Heskey  (62 England caps to Mabbutt's 16. Heskey probably has as more England caps alone than every other Bristolian put together).

Rugby - Bristol: one cup win in 1980 something (prior to Pat Lam), never League Champions; Leicester : won the lot numerous times including the big European one. Bristol has produced some England internationals, back in the old amateur days more than now.

Cricket - never County Champions (between Somerset and Glos); Leicester - top of the pile three times. 

Snooker - Bristol: Judd Trump, one World Championship; Leicester: Mark Selby, three World Championships. And Willie Thorne. Even inside, in the warm, and you can sit down a lot, we are more shite than Leicester. 

 

You might say Leicester (football) is foreign owned now but when it was locally owned before it just left us in the shade - look at those fifty plus seasons at the top level, compared to our paltry nine. Pathetic on our part. And that must be down to more than just the people watching - it’s all of us, the great and the good/apathetic.

And if we look at Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, Norwich, Stoke, Southampton, Cardiff, almost anywhere of comparable size then we are embarrassingly shite in their company. Durham have only been a first class county cricket club since the early nineties and they've already won the Championship three times, ffs!

It's a wonder anyone still goes to watch professional sport in this city, given the embarrassingly poor record of success.  

 

So, my belief is that it's all of us that's the "problem" - from Steve Lansdown at the top, through the local kiddies that actually play the bloody game, and all the way down to us apathetic, moaning lowlife on this pitiful forum (one of the best in the country, by the way. Yes, when it comes to internet football platforms for having a moan, we are right up there with the best in the land).

 

Really interesting post.  The question of why Bristol had underachieved at sport for over 100 years is fascinating, and I’m no nearer to knowing the answer.  They used to say that more people played sport in Bristol, hence fewer supporters putting money into the club; or that it is a commercial city with no substantial grassroots for sport.  I think geography might come into it.  Bristol is slightly isolated and maybe we’ve been seen as an outlier for decades, whereas the likes of Leicester are part of a hub of football clubs.  But the fact is that we were the second southern club to join the Football League (after Arsenal) and almost all our success can in our first decade, which is embarrassing.  The whole thing is perplexing - given our demographic, Bristol is arguably the most underachieving city for competitive sport in Western Europe.

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

On reflection, I do wonder if it is something to do with the people (ie all of us: fans, club owners, players, directors, club officials etc) of this area. When you look at all sport we are from this part of the country, doing well if we're second rate, and often not that good.

We are just a bit shite at sport - shite at supporting, shite at playing, shite at owning and shite at running top class clubs, shite in general. When compared to the rest of the country. 

I was looking at a review of the county cricket clubs for the new season and it listed every club and how often they had won the county Championship - or not. Only three counties have never won it, Northants and guess who?

Compare Bristol with Leicester, for example:

Football - Bristol: nil major trophies, nine seasons of top class football between two clubs, Gary Mabbutt most notable player produced for England; Leicester - 4 major trophies, 51 seasons at the top, 4 (losing) FA cup finals, produced likes of Lineker and Shilton, and Emile Heskey  (62 England caps to Mabbutt's 16. Heskey probably has as more England caps alone than every other Bristolian put together).

Rugby - Bristol: one cup win in 1980 something (prior to Pat Lam), never League Champions; Leicester : won the lot numerous times including the big European one. Bristol has produced some England internationals, back in the old amateur days more than now.

Cricket - never County Champions (between Somerset and Glos); Leicester - top of the pile three times. 

 

 

I don’t agree at all.

You know that I am not a rugby person but Bath were pretty much serial winners in the 80s & 90s, I believe. Exeter have I understand, taken over their mantle & it looks like Bristol might soon do so.

Somerset are in my opinion the best run cricket club in the country, no Test venue income, yet second to Essex (another in the same boat) on a regular basis. Those affluent Test counties poach their players (Buttler to Lancs, this winter Bess to Yorkshire & J.Overton to Surrey) but they have a seemingly endless conveyor belt of West Country produced talent. 
Also Gloucestershire were regular winners of one day competitions not so very long ago & prior to that, a Somerset side with 2 of the greatest cricketers of all time, plus a certain Joel Garner, did the very same.

Football is the outlier here, for me the reasons for that could fill a whole book, not a post on a forum, but amongst the obvious ones are a City that is now absolutely packed with non Bristolians, no historical success & total indifference from both the business community & local government, the latter shown by the Ashton Vale saga & even with our pitiful little neighbours by the amount of opposition drummed up by “down from London” Green types that now abound, in the gentrified parts.

Anyway, I’m sort of rambling now & I should find something much better to do with a rare day off work..

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23 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Really interesting post.  The question of why Bristol had underachieved at sport for over 100 years is fascinating, and I’m no nearer to knowing the answer.  They used to say that more people played sport in Bristol, hence fewer supporters putting money into the club; or that it is a commercial city with no substantial grassroots for sport.  I think geography might come into it.  Bristol is slightly isolated and maybe we’ve been seen as an outlier for decades, whereas the likes of Leicester are part of a hub of football clubs.  But the fact is that we were the second southern club to join the Football League (after Arsenal) and almost all our success can in our first decade, which is embarrassing.  The whole thing is perplexing - given our demographic, Bristol is arguably the most underachieving city for competitive sport in Western Europe.

 

In football perhaps, but don't forget rugby or the city's various Olympians in other sports.

The largest stand-alone city in the UK without a league club is Chelmsford. 160,000 in the conurbation. Never been higher than Conference South. They have a crap rugby club as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

On reflection, I do wonder if it is something to do with the people (ie all of us: fans, club owners, players, directors, club officials etc) of this area. When you look at all sport we are from this part of the country, doing well if we're second rate, and often not that good.

We are just a bit shite at sport - shite at supporting, shite at playing, shite at owning and shite at running top class clubs, shite in general. When compared to the rest of the country. 

I was looking at a review of the county cricket clubs for the new season and it listed every club and how often they had won the county Championship - or not. Only three counties have never won it, Northants and guess who?

Compare Bristol with Leicester, for example:

Football - Bristol: nil major trophies, nine seasons of top class football between two clubs, Gary Mabbutt most notable player produced for England; Leicester - 4 major trophies, 51 seasons at the top, 4 (losing) FA cup finals, produced likes of Lineker and Shilton, and Emile Heskey  (62 England caps to Mabbutt's 16. Heskey probably has as more England caps alone than every other Bristolian put together).

Rugby - Bristol: one cup win in 1980 something (prior to Pat Lam), never League Champions; Leicester : won the lot numerous times including the big European one. Bristol has produced some England internationals, back in the old amateur days more than now.

Cricket - never County Champions (between Somerset and Glos); Leicester - top of the pile three times. 

Snooker - Bristol: Judd Trump, one World Championship; Leicester: Mark Selby, three World Championships. And Willie Thorne. Even inside, in the warm, and you can sit down a lot, we are more shite than Leicester. 

 

You might say Leicester (football) is foreign owned now but when it was locally owned before it just left us in the shade - look at those fifty plus seasons at the top level, compared to our paltry nine. Pathetic on our part. And that must be down to more than just the people watching - it’s all of us, the great and the good/apathetic.

And if we look at Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, Norwich, Stoke, Southampton, Cardiff, almost anywhere of comparable size then we are embarrassingly shite in their company. Durham have only been a first class county cricket club since the early nineties and they've already won the Championship three times, ffs!

It's a wonder anyone still goes to watch professional sport in this city, given the embarrassingly poor record of success.  

 

So, my belief is that it's all of us that's the "problem" - from Steve Lansdown at the top, through the local kiddies that actually play the bloody game, and all the way down to us apathetic, moaning lowlife on this pitiful forum (one of the best in the country, by the way. Yes, when it comes to internet football platforms for having a moan, we are right up there with the best in the land).

 

Cracking post. 

I did a look at our relative unsuccess when at uni whilst looking at fan power in sport and came to a few conclusions. 

1. Bristol was traditionally a transient city, a major port, a major rail and  a road gateway, this means that there was never a great settling of sporting talent from the get go. 

Other places had a larger settled population and in the cases of Blackburn and Preston had access to Scottish players through both industry and mill funds. 

There's also the trend towards Rugby Union over Football in the southwest historically which has also caused issues. Rugby League has had similar affects, barring Leeds and Huddersfield (under Herbert Chapman) Rugby League towns arent considered football successes. Saints, Wigan, Widnes etc. 

This has limited our early success and then caused further upheavals later on. 

2.) As far as I can remember, Bristol Sporting clubs weren't started from  strong community bonds such as churches or pre existing sports clubs or strong work related places, thinking dockers, Iron works etc. 

There's never been a city wide connection to the teams in the way thay other cities such as Manchester or Liverpool, live, eat or breathe football. 

Yes, attendances for us were bigger in the past, however factors not present as much now including fans watching whichever Bristol Club was at home for a football fix meant true numbers were distorted. 

3.) Bristol is unique in the UK. 

At the same time, it is considered Rich, Poor, Laid back, but anger fuelled location wise its a stopping place either for students, travelling people, goods and a great place to visit or live, if you can get the mindset. Lots of people dont or cant, and prefer elsewhere meaning we've traditionally struggled to keep good or great players unless they've grown up or acclimatised to the uniqueness. 

Look at the likes of Louis Carey or Scotty Murray coming back after leaving because Bristol is 'home' or Joe Bryan and Bobby Decordova Reid at Fulham in so much as the bonds here are rarely broken and and those who are Bristolian rarely travel well success wise if they're sporting related successes. 

We get round that and we crack the success code. :)

 

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1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

I lived in Leeds for a couple of years and when we get posts on here saying how mean our fans were for booing at a game and being entitled it always makes me laugh in comparison to the fans I knew up there. Our team get an incredibly easy ride in comparison.

I remember a few years ago us being 2-0 up at Elland road and Leeds being boo'd off at half time. Came back out and I'm pretty sure it finished 2-2.

Down here we'd have been quietly tutting to each other before shuffling off to queue for the bogs and squint at the half time results.

Looking at the state of affairs for the last few years I think we're perhaps just too nice... So maybe it is partly the fans "fault" but not for the reasons the OP has said!

The problem is that there's a portion of the fanbase that believe the team and club can never be criticised, and that supporters "aren't real fans" for not being happy about the performances on the pitch. I've seen plenty of tweets saying that fans would never ever boo the team, that they should be supported through thick and thin etc etc. Whilst there's no room for tantrums at the first sign of trouble, as a fanbase we give our players an easy ride.

I can remember around the time we were relegated to League One the entire East End chanting "You're not fit to wear the shirt" for the majority of a game (think it was against Wolves and we lost 4-1, the worst city performance I've watched). I've not experienced a more toxic atmosphere since, and it clearly showed the frustrations of the fans and got a response from the players after the game. You've got to support and cheer on the players, they're representing the club, but if they aren't up to standard or simply not trying (like the current team) they've got to be told. We are too nice as a fanbase, and its the same in the boardroom. Don't get me wrong, there's got to be a balance and it's not about flogging the team for nothing, but it's probably a part (however small) of the reason for the dire home performances of recent seasons. Apathy from the fans towards poor performances reaches the players, who also become apathetic.

Hopefully next season with S82 back in the ground, we'll get back to having a lively atmosphere that reflects the feelings of the fans, both good and bad, and can lift the team and push them on to success. I think we miss the atmosphere generated by the East End more than most people realise.

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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You what?

I literally have no idea what you’re trying to insinuate?  DM me if you like.

What hate?

Strength of what argument?

 

 

I thought I'd replied last night but obviously it didn't post. 

 

I'm not insinuating anything. 

Your post  directly accuses the OP of being a dupe poster as a way of shutting down discussions through trying to discredit. 

The hate aspect is that youve gone on record that you dislike MA having either met or worked or both with him, tempering your posts narrative. 

Because of your position as in stats here, long and numerous posts, Bristol post stuff, podcasts and everything else, your posts hold weight and thus if they say that you dislike someone, others will use that to draw on their decisions too, hence the toxic atmosphere shown on here, by many towards MA. Atracks have been repeated and over pretty much every aspect of him as a person, in business and then his position at the club. It's also driven further attacks towards other people at the club from SL JL and pretty much all and sundry including players who your posts dont think are performing. 

That influence is powerful and as a result when things challenge that your posts tend to get uppity or play dirty as demonstrated at the start of this one, or by trying to tell others how they should think, which is a  pretty poor show. 

The last time I saw a situation similar to this was in the field of retrogaming and someone who was a self professed Atari expert. It did not end well as things rapidly fell apart once people started to pick at things they'd said or done that under scrutiny fell apart and meant much of their influence, to the point of changing some of retrogaming history though misinformation and undue influence. 

I'm not doing here then anything aside from pointing out that, your posts have power and as such with everything else create a fiefdom which needs to be checked and nutured, less it whips up a cauldron of hate towards others. which is what your posts on 'everything that is wrong at Bristol City' tend to do and to be mindful of that. 

 

 

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22 hours ago, AshtonYate said:

Its totally not a wind-up I promise you.  We as supporters really don't have a say on footballing matters, nor does any other supporter of any football club around the world.  That isn't a Mark Ashton or SL issue.  But to say they don't listen to us, imo, simply isn't true.  I think we as fans sometimes forget that this football club do listen to us when it comes to player purchases.  Lets be honest, we were happy with the signings of most of the players we have.  SL went all out to get Kalas, Palmer, DaSilva etc; So they do listen. But they aren't going to break the bank to satisfy us all of the time. 

When I started to support this club, we were a league one / 2 yoyo club, but we are arguably in the best position that its ever been in! But yet, I honestly think there is more discontent and discontent again the board than there has ever been. 

Its like when we don't get our way, we always have to see heads roll.  Its like we never give it time.  The appointment of DH was a ballsup, but that happens in football.  Overall though, MA has had a pretty decent reign and I will be sad to see him leave as I don't think I could name anyone who could or would do a better job.  

I'm telling you now, get rid of MA & SL and watch us drop down the leagues. 

“We are arguably in the best position we have ever been”.

Seriously, wow, seriously.

We could still be in League one next season. I’ve been going since the mid 70’s and we as a football team on the pitch ( that’s what the club is all about) we are an absolute mess, a total utter shambles. It’s been the same for the last three years. Ashton and LJ have a lot to answer for, these two signed dross, and we are now paying the price. Any new manager has a big mess to sort out. 

I find it incredible that you can come out with a statement like you have. Bewildering. I think your on a wind up. 

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51 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Really interesting post.  The question of why Bristol had underachieved at sport for over 100 years is fascinating, and I’m no nearer to knowing the answer.  They used to say that more people played sport in Bristol, hence fewer supporters putting money into the club; or that it is a commercial city with no substantial grassroots for sport.  I think geography might come into it.  Bristol is slightly isolated and maybe we’ve been seen as an outlier for decades, whereas the likes of Leicester are part of a hub of football clubs.  But the fact is that we were the second southern club to join the Football League (after Arsenal) and almost all our success can in our first decade, which is embarrassing.  The whole thing is perplexing - given our demographic, Bristol is arguably the most underachieving city for competitive sport in Western Europe.

I've never understood why folks incorrectly conflate the population of a catchment area to assumed levels of sporting prowess? The more significant measure is the degree of engagement of the catchment community with local clubs (and that's pretty much applicable across sports.)

In City's case the population of Greater Bristol is now estimated to have hit the million mark, hence 98% of those folks never attend a City fixture. We may be the 'One Team In Bristol' but that's of interest to around 2% of the local population. T'was ever thus. Of the 7 STs I purchase not one holder has lived within 100 miles of Bristol for the past 40 years. In that time Bristol has seen one of the largest population migrations in the UK hence Sociologists and Political Scientists love to dissect the obvious difference in 'place' and 'belonging' elections have demonstrated. Incomers may like living in Bristol but have little or no affinity toward it, care not for its long-term planning or whether they'll tarry there long? I've lived in London for 40 years but am not a Londoner nor would choose to support anything other than my childhood club.

Contrast those clubs with high levels of local engagement and affinity (and static populations) - Burnley, Lens, Forest Green et al. Hugely punch about their weight and have done so for decades.

City / Bristol are massive underachievers but we're not even good enough to touch the bottom of the pile. Plymouth is often cited as a comparator but they, too, are trumped by the likes of the City of Wakefield. Who, you might ask? Well there's around 350k folks there supporting 3 or 4 rugby clubs whose names you won't have heard since Eddie Waring turned up his toes and whose highest figuring football team has been Frickley Athletic.

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

The largest stand-alone city in the UK without a league club is Chelmsford. 160,000 in the conurbation. Never been higher than Conference South. They have a crap rugby club as well.

That's because Chelmsford's too boring to have a football team :D

 

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2 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

I thought I'd replied last night but obviously it didn't post. 

 

I'm not insinuating anything. 

Your post  directly accuses the OP of being a dupe poster as a way of shutting down discussions through trying to discredit. 

The hate aspect is that youve gone on record that you dislike MA having either met or worked or both with him, tempering your posts narrative. 

Because of your position as in stats here, long and numerous posts, Bristol post stuff, podcasts and everything else, your posts hold weight and thus if they say that you dislike someone, others will use that to draw on their decisions too, hence the toxic atmosphere shown on here, by many towards MA. Atracks have been repeated and over pretty much every aspect of him as a person, in business and then his position at the club. It's also driven further attacks towards other people at the club from SL JL and pretty much all and sundry including players who your posts dont think are performing. 

That influence is powerful and as a result when things challenge that your posts tend to get uppity or play dirty as demonstrated at the start of this one, or by trying to tell others how they should think, which is a  pretty poor show. 

The last time I saw a situation similar to this was in the field of retrogaming and someone who was a self professed Atari expert. It did not end well as things rapidly fell apart once people started to pick at things they'd said or done that under scrutiny fell apart and meant much of their influence, to the point of changing some of retrogaming history though misinformation and undue influence. 

I'm not doing here then anything aside from pointing out that, your posts have power and as such with everything else create a fiefdom which needs to be checked and nutured, less it whips up a cauldron of hate towards others. which is what your posts on 'everything that is wrong at Bristol City' tend to do and to be mindful of that. 

 

 

Still wow!

I don’t shut anyone down...I was all for understanding the other person’s view.  If anyone shut the debate down it was the OP.  The OP basically said “us fans” were the problem.  Pretty accusational standpoint.

Perhaps I influence because I take the time to explain my thoughts?  Perhaps many OTIBers appreciate my posts because of that.  Do you think they hold weight because they’re long and numerous? I post because I love talking about football and Bristol City in particular.  Can’t please everyone though, fine if you think I play dirty, etc. You couldn’t be further away from the truth though.

Re MA - I’ve met the bloke twice, very brief chats.  As I explained in previous posts, on those occasions he was not in his natural environment and they were uncomfortable conversations for him.  I have no reason to dislike him as a person.  Happy for you to point out where I’ve said that...and the context if I did.  I’ve always countered the posters who moan about his corporate speak....in fact my reply to the OP started with exactly that.

I’m pretty consistent in my “dislike” of his performance on the Recruitment side, both in his time as consultant here and permanently since end of 2015.  And if you follow this thread and many others, you’ll read why.  You don’t have to agree, many don’t.  You’ll also see I credit him for other things though.  It ain’t black and white....and it’s opinion, opinion based on insight in some cases.

Some posters on here pick at my stuff all the time.  I learn from others, I use that learning to improve my understanding.

Thanks for giving me the insight into my divisive ways on OTIB.

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Many thanks to "AshtonYate" for an utter dog mess of an opening post.

For it has prompted some truly excellent replies - passionate, eloquent, thought-provoking.

Good work everyone - if only our team could get similarly fired up!  

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23 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

That's because Chelmsford's too boring to have a football team :D

 

 

Used to have one good pub, the Prince of Orange.  But that was obviously too exciting, so the council took its licence away and it was redeveloped as flats. :badmood:

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2 hours ago, Fiale said:

Also, why exactly do we need a voice at the EFL ? What exactly is it we are saying / getting that other clubs don't ?

As a club we strongly support FFP.

Could be that MA is partly responsible for the beefed up powers.

Rule changes or new Rules in the Championship required a minimum threshold of 18/24 clubs to agree- perhaps his lobbying has brought innovations into play e.g. Soft Embargoes, Past, Present, Future Monitoring and of course a tariff which can go as high as 21 points.

Perhaps in an EFL context, he was a key man in this respect. Suspect he's pushing hard, Derby vs EFL Appeal still ongoing.

Be assured, there are clubs who want FFP abolished or significantly changed.

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In terms of OP and League 1 and 2, potentially they were getting mixed up. 20 years ago the Leagues were of course Division One and Two, in reality the 2nd and 3rd level. We did yoyo a bit.

20 years of SL in charge has seen us in the 2nd tier more often than the 2 decades before. That's an improvement to a point.

Off the pitch? Stadium (Complete with revenue facilities), Training Ground. Improvement in terms of Infrastructure.

Always counterfactuals. Brentford have overtaken us though their spending has stepped up, Barnsley are in the playoffs atm which is brilliant work. Lot less revenue.

Otoh, Birmingham £37m wage bill in 2017/18. Almost relegated. Reading bottom third 2018/19, maybe 14th but relegation scrap for some time. £42m wage bill.

Attendances at AG highest since 1970s over a sustained period pre Covid. Interesting to see how it looks in 2021/22.

Our wages and expenditure. They maybe record breaking by our standards. Yet midtableish at this level.

Which is where we are at this season. Midtableish, and a fairly injury hit squad- lot of room for improvement however.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In terms of OP and League 1 and 2, potentially they were getting mixed up. 20 years ago the Leagues weee of course Division One and Two, in reality the 2nd and 3rd level. We did yoyo a bit.

20 years of SL in charge has seen us in the 2nd tier more often than the 2 decades before. That's an improvement to a point.

Off the pitch? Stadium (Complete with revenue facilities), Training Ground. Improvement in terms of Infrastructure.

Always counterfactuals. Brentford have overtaken us though their spending has stepped up, Barnsley are in the playoffs atm which is brilliant work. Lot less revenue.

Otoh, Birmingham £37m wage bill in 2017/18. Almost relegated. Reading bottom third 2018/19, maybe 14th but relegation scrap for some time. £42m wage bill.

Attendances at AG highest since 1970s over a sustained period pre Covid. Interesting to see how it looks in 2021/22.

Our wages and expenditure. They maybe record breaking by our standards. Yet midtableish at this level.

Which is where we are at this season. Midtableish, and a fairly injury hit squad- lot of room for improvement however.

 

 

The question I would ask, no blame apportioned, is would Steve Lansdown himself after all the effort and investment made in 20 odd years be happy with where the club currently stands? Is £200m or whatever it is that has come out of his own pocket a fair level of investment to turn a club that was knocking around in between 2nd and 3rd tiers into one that is fairly solid 2nd tier but nothing better (barring a disaster and freak set of results over the next month)? I suspect he would have expected more on the football side by now.

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2 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

I thought I'd replied last night but obviously it didn't post. 

 

I'm not insinuating anything. 

Your post  directly accuses the OP of being a dupe poster as a way of shutting down discussions through trying to discredit. 

The hate aspect is that youve gone on record that you dislike MA having either met or worked or both with him, tempering your posts narrative. 

Because of your position as in stats here, long and numerous posts, Bristol post stuff, podcasts and everything else, your posts hold weight and thus if they say that you dislike someone, others will use that to draw on their decisions too, hence the toxic atmosphere shown on here, by many towards MA. Atracks have been repeated and over pretty much every aspect of him as a person, in business and then his position at the club. It's also driven further attacks towards other people at the club from SL JL and pretty much all and sundry including players who your posts dont think are performing. 

That influence is powerful and as a result when things challenge that your posts tend to get uppity or play dirty as demonstrated at the start of this one, or by trying to tell others how they should think, which is a  pretty poor show. 

The last time I saw a situation similar to this was in the field of retrogaming and someone who was a self professed Atari expert. It did not end well as things rapidly fell apart once people started to pick at things they'd said or done that under scrutiny fell apart and meant much of their influence, to the point of changing some of retrogaming history though misinformation and undue influence. 

I'm not doing here then anything aside from pointing out that, your posts have power and as such with everything else create a fiefdom which needs to be checked and nutured, less it whips up a cauldron of hate towards others. which is what your posts on 'everything that is wrong at Bristol City' tend to do and to be mindful of that. 

 

 

There's plenty of other posters who are far more virulent in their attacks on other posters/posts than @Davefevs! I would imagine most people on this forum are capable of forming their own opinion of MA and what is wrong with the club without Dave's input, I think you are overstating his influence on other members. 

I actually enjoy reading his posts and find them very insightful.

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2 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

There's plenty of other posters who are far more virulent in their attacks on other posters/posts than @Davefevs! I would imagine most people on this forum are capable of forming their own opinion of MA and what is wrong with the club without Dave's input, I think you are overstating his influence on other members. 

I actually enjoy reading his posts and find them very insightful.

Welcome to my cult

Dance Flowers GIF by A24

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21 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

Do we get a membership pack? I demand at least a membership card, car sticker and a quarterly magazine or I'm not staying.

Yes, don’t be fooled by the National Trust branding, turn the free binoculars round the other way.

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Not watching Somerset bat, I hope?

Nope, been out for the day.

Still confident a side that produces more first class cricketers than any is on the right lines.

Some real talent through all the age groups.

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Having supported our club since the age of eleven and lived in Bristol, all my life (66years) and taken a very keen interest in the make up of our city and its surroundings, as well as the why's and where how of the club, I can say that, the reasons for our lack off success are mirrored throughout Bristol and the regions history.

We are a divided city politically, with numerous changes over my lifetime, from left wing to right wing to stuck in the middle. This leads to administrations being constantly changed and projects not finished or never started, due to not enough power allotted to the leaders of the city. Each administration needing the assistance of a smaller group to pass policies.

We are a divided city in terms of wealth, with a lesser proportion of working class people than other cities, those traditionally thought of as footballing cities. Meaning there are less people focused on supporting/following football per head of population. A few things happen because of this. 1, less revenue is provided for the club. 2, less people play football, so a smaller choice of better quality players come through the ranks, 3, there's less support within the corridors of power to support the club. I was thinking that in more modern times, this might alter, as there is now a larger emphasis to athleticism, as opposed to true grit, skill and determination, provided traditionally by the teams the further North you go, London has it's own toughness.

Being a divided city with less traditional support for football, having two teams also hinders the chances of success. WD&HO WILLs refused to sponsor City as it would have been unfair on the other lot. So they sponsored the power boat racing and the tennis. Later John Wills sponsored Swindon Town and left the legacy of South Bristol with the highest rates of lung cancer in the country. Other money traditionally leaves Bristol and goes to the rugby in Bath, Bristol is now competing because of SL.

I think it mostly boils down to us not being as demanding and downright boisterous as other areas (both physically and vocally) with successful clubs. We're too soft, too apathetic, too accepting of mediocrity. As a fan base, I've always thought of us as reactive as opposed to proactive, basically we're typically Bristolian. Yet more demanding that that other bunch.

Strange that places like Ipswich, Norwich, Portsmouth, Southampton, Reading, even Swindon can reach the promised land, especially as they are all smaller with probably a similar percentage of possible football followers, as in Bristol. There's one thing missing from those places. And until we get rid of that lot, we'll truly struggle to have sustained success, unless we market ourselves as a regional club, encompassing towns like Taunton, Bridgwater, Gloucester and anywhere there's reasonable transport links and a decent untapped population interested in football.

We also rarely produce A list performers, bands or whatever on a regular basis, because there's no real drive and grit to achieve anything really and, nothing from the past to act as an inspiration. We currently are a very nice city bobbing along being mediocre and, until more people take an active role in our society, instead of leaving the roles of councilors and doers to people that have arrived here from other parts, that have no affiliation to our city, then it will most likely remain the same. It would be interesting to find out the number of people in power that are local to our area, in comparison to other cities.

Bloody hell, I'm depressed now. :)🤬 

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I have noticed today that SL has/is to step down from his position as chairman with Ravenscroft "to concentrate on his Sporting interests in Bristol" "while remaining the major share holder" seems new news, interesting or not? :dunno:

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On 08/04/2021 at 15:39, Davefevs said:

Ta.  Always happy to explain my view / rationale.

I do tend to get touchy when the response is “you’re wrong” because you don’t work in football.  Always happy to take alternate views on board too

The debating style of the OP has remarkable likeness to a poster who recently decided to stop following Bristol City, even using some very similar (same?) phrases as that poster.

Mmmm!

Interesting. I think your hunch might be correct. I've only read the OP's post after reading your post here.. and it's a bit tin foil of me.. but now you mention it it does read like dear @Prinny trying very hard not to write like @Prinny.

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