Derby County

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm still puzzled as to how Morris could take the Boro claim on himself when he doesn't own the club. If he can and does is he not admitting personal liability? And would that not extend therefore to all debts owed?

My brain is beginning to hurt.

 

9 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

More posturing. He can't as the claims are against the club. 

That is certainly  the way I saw/see it. 
 

The idea that Couhig and Gibson would even entertain a legal battle with Morris rather than Derby is insane 

I liked this comment from Quantuma 

Our job is to get the best deal for the creditors of the companies in administration.

But they really haven’t have they. If I was a creditor of what ever category you like and defined as you wish I would be pretty unhappy. After months of going around and around and a claim that goes back to 2020 they have achieved nothing tangible for anyone 

Yes some will say it will all come together at once, but I can’t see it. 
 

Lord knows how/who will be funding this shit show until next August!?

[chinapig]

13 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

More posturing. He can't as the claims are against the club. 

Well yes, posturing is the very word I used when Morris came out with his ramblings.

The fact that he can't take on the claims seems to have been entirely missed by the fans, the Administrators and Morris himself. Which is what makes my brain hurt.

Though of course Morris' aim may have been to get back in the fans' good books, which seems to have worked. They seem to be so gullible they make gasheads look like realists.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

That is certainly  the way I saw/see it. 
 

The idea that Couhig and Gibson would even entertain a legal battle with Morris rather than Derby is insane 

I liked this comment from Quantuma 

Our job is to get the best deal for the creditors of the companies in administration.

But they really haven’t have they. If I was a creditor of what ever category you like and defined as you wish I would be pretty unhappy. After months of going around and around and a claim that goes back to 2020 they have achieved nothing tangible for anyone 

Yes some will say it will all come together at once, but I can’t see it. 
 

Lord knows how/who will be funding this shit show until next August!?

Agreed broadly speaking.,

I suppose that their argument would be is that if they can somehow bypass the claims, squash them down- challenge the validity not solely of the claims but the right to bring the claims by Middlesbrough and latterly Wycombe, then the creditors would get a better deal.

Not uncommon to challenge the right to bring- UEFA v Man City was one, the latter tried this- Derby and Sheffield Wednesday both claimed that the FFP charges were unlawful in January 2020 and November 2019 respectively.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed broadly speaking.,

I suppose that their argument would be is that if they can somehow bypass the claims, squash them down- challenge the validity not solely of the claims but the right to bring the claims by Middlesbrough and latterly Wycombe, then the creditors would get a better deal.

Not uncommon to challenge the right to bring- UEFA v Man City was one, the latter tried this- Derby and Sheffield Wednesday both claimed that the FFP charges were unlawful in January 2020 and November 2019 respectively.

Agreed with your first paragraph, as discussed, previously. But to this point they haven’t done anything or got anywhere with Borough or WWFC. Money is flying out the door Quantuma is getting paid, while the debt sits gaining no interest for the suppliers, all knowing the best they will get is 25% of the total. 
 

As for any challenges on any grounds by anyone in any arena that takes time. The fact they can’t get anything done with WW or Borough just shows that the hot air is being pedaled as substance. Quantuma had one plan, try and brow beat Gibson Couhig and the EFL! Not sure that is working out for them  

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Agreed with your first paragraph, as discussed, previously. But to this point they haven’t done anything or got anywhere with Borough or WWFC. Money is flying out the door Quantuma is getting paid, while the debt sits gaining no interest for the suppliers, all knowing the best they will get is 25% of the total. 
 

As for any challenges on any grounds by anyone in any arena that takes time. The fact they can’t get anything done with WW or Borough just shows that the hot air is being pedaled as substance. Quantuma had one plan, try and brow beat Gibson Couhig and the EFL! Not sure that is working out for them  

 

Oh mostly agree for sure. 

Think another part of the issue is that Quantuma- either believe or purport to believe, that the claims of Middlesbrough and Wycombe are worthless so let's bypass them. That won't fly of course and I don't see how Mel Morris can take on the claims either, picking and choosing his debts unless he's via the EFL Arbitration- he however proposes the High Court. Harder to make a claim stick to him than the club IMO.

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh mostly agree for sure. 

Think another part of the issue is that Quantuma- either believe or purport to believe, that the claims of Middlesbrough and Wycombe are worthless so let's bypass them. That won't fly of course and I don't see how Mel Morris can take on the claims either, picking and choosing his debts unless he's via the EFL Arbitration- he however proposes the High Court. Harder to make a claim stick to him than the club IMO.

The stuff about Morris telling Gibson/Couhig to come after him is just dross. Proper Morris bullshit. 
 

Yes I think you nailed it with puport. If they could vilify Gibson and Couhig via pretty much any means it meant they might go away. So here we are yet again. Todays hot air, the deal could be done in days if NOT for MFC  and WWFC. 
 

Morris ignored Gibson and the line did not change. Quantuma buy time by saying the same stuff and no one goes forward. Unfortunately there is not much more time to buy. 
 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Currently three up at home to Hull just after HT

[Clevedon Red]

3 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Currently three up at home to Hull just after HT

I think they’ll stay up.

[GlastonburyRed]

Their Ebosele looks like one hell of a player!

[The Original OTIB]

14 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

I think they’ll stay up.

Agree

[eardun]

Derby will certainly be rooting for us tomorrow. 

[eardun]

2 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Their Ebosele looks like one hell of a player!

He did against us earlier in the season (especially in the first half).

[Simon bristol]

Have to say that like him or not, rooney has done an amazing job there, pulling that around was practically impossible.

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Have to say that like him or not, rooney has done an amazing job there, pulling that around was practically impossible.

I think he has a decent squad, sorry, had a decent squad until the window.  Not just good youngsters just breaking through, but youngsters like Bird with 100 appearances.

He has done a good job, and playing with a deficit of 21 points has a mental affect.  Having said that, maybe they’ve played with freedom through low expectations?  Bit of siege mentality too?

Will be interesting now that Peterborough and Reading are in their sights whether they start to feel any pressure or not.

Next 4:

Saturday week looks tasty!

[Waconda]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think he has a decent squad, sorry, had a decent squad until the window.  Not just good youngsters just breaking through, but youngsters like Bird with 100 appearances.

He has done a good job, and playing with a deficit of 21 points has a mental affect.  Having said that, maybe they’ve played with freedom through low expectations?  Bit of siege mentality too?

Will be interesting now that Peterborough and Reading are in their sights whether they start to feel any pressure or not.

Next 4:

Saturday week looks tasty!

Some great coaching, man management and motivation gone on there for sure.

Even if they do end up going down it's been a fantastic effort from the coaching staff and players.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

Some great coaching, man management and motivation gone on there for sure.

Even if they do end up going down it's been a fantastic effort from the coaching staff and players.

Although until recently some dissent from fans over the dull football, e.g. passing it around in their own third for passing’s sake. Back when they played us and lost 1-0, there was a fair bit of moaning that they don’t create much.  They’ve been pretty resilient though.

Our fans weren’t dissimilar in the early part of this season when we were pretty pragmatic, albeit direct.  We looked solid, stayed in games, generally low scoring games - “where are the goals coming from” comments. 

Now we have more open football but are conceding lots.

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Although until recently some dissent from fans over the dull football, e.g. passing it around in their own third for passing’s sake. Back when they played us and lost 1-0, there was a fair bit of moaning that they don’t create much.  They’ve been pretty resilient though.

Our fans weren’t dissimilar in the early part of this season when we were pretty pragmatic, albeit direct.  We looked solid, stayed in games, generally low scoring games - “where are the goals coming from” comments. 

Now we have more open football but are conceding lots.

Yes agreed, they were fairly poor against us.

We looked solid, stayed in games, generally low scoring games - “where are the goals coming from” comments.  and the points !!

As disorganised and open as we are now we have and will gain enough points to stay up, being set up as we were and with the tactics employed before the Blackburn home game we were definitely going to be in trouble - IMO.

It is not great now but there is entertainment and for me as a "holding pattern" for the 3 year plan then it will do.

Just wish the organisation and detail work would improve.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

and the points !!

We had:

• 12 from 8
• 16 from 11
• 19 from 15

We’ve slowed down the PPG from those early season games where we were much more pragmatic.

FWIW, the “12 from 8” was after QPR (away win / robbery), we were 9 from 7, and I was content.  Semenyo was just coming back, we had good availability, Williams was an unused sub that day.  We switched to a back 3.  We then lost key players in the intervening period…and that cost us.  The run of 5 defeats in 6 (Barnsley win at home sandwiched in between) pre Blackburn hit us hard.

Including Blackburn we’ve gone W4 D3 L6 in the league (15 pts from 13). 1.1538 ppg GF20 / GA27

Pre-Blackburn W5 D4 L8 (19 pts from 17).  1.1176 ppg GF19 / GA27

So I’d say the points are pretty even (a fraction below pre-Blackburn….you can have your 0.0362 ).  We had our manager missing pre-Blackburn too.

I think we are better to watch if you’re primarily interested in more exciting football.  I’m probably in the minority where I quite like a dull, cagey 0-0, 1-1.  That’s just me though!

[ExiledAjax]

Nice bloke.

"We knew if Chelsea won then they had won the league that day," said 36-year-old Rooney. "Until my last game for Derby, I always wore the old plastic studs with the metal tip. For that game I changed them to big, long metal ones - the maximum length you could have because I wanted to try and hurt someone, try and injure someone. I knew they were going to win that game. You could feel they were a better team at the time so I changed my studs. The studs were legal but thinking if there's a challenge there I knew I'd want to go in for it properly, basically. I did actually. John Terry left the stadium on crutches. I left a hole in his foot and then I signed my shirt to him after the game... and a few weeks later I sent it to him and asked for my stud back. If you look back when they were celebrating, JT's got his crutches from that tackle."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60312167

Edited February 9, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We had:

• 12 from 8
• 16 from 11
• 19 from 15

We’ve slowed down the PPG from those early season games where we were much more pragmatic.

FWIW, the “12 from 8” was after QPR (away win / robbery), we were 9 from 7, and I was content.  Semenyo was just coming back, we had good availability, Williams was an unused sub that day.  We switched to a back 3.  We then lost key players in the intervening period…and that cost us.  The run of 5 defeats in 6 (Barnsley win at home sandwiched in between) pre Blackburn hit us hard.

Including Blackburn we’ve gone W4 D3 L6 in the league (15 pts from 13). 1.1538 ppg GF20 / GA27

Pre-Blackburn W5 D4 L8 (19 pts from 17).  1.1176 ppg GF19 / GA27

So I’d say the points are pretty even (a fraction below pre-Blackburn….you can have your 0.0362 ).  We had our manager missing pre-Blackburn too.

I think we are better to watch if you’re primarily interested in more exciting football.  I’m probably in the minority where I quite like a dull, cagey 0-0, 1-1.  That’s just me though!

Yep more points per game and more exciting football since the change of formation versus Blackburn.

Enough to keep us up in this "free hit" season.

A few simple set piece defensive drills away from being a mid table side.

[East Londoner]

On 08/02/2022 at 20:55, Lanterne Rouge said:

Currently three up at home to Hull just after HT

Seems to have been missed by most on here, Liam Walsh was making his debut for Hull on loan 

Doesn’t seem to have worked out for him at Swansea either. Maybe there’s a pattern developing 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, East Londoner said:

Seems to have been missed by most on here, Liam Walsh was making his debut for Hull on loan 

Doesn’t seem to have worked out for him at Swansea either. Maybe there’s a pattern developing 

Nah, just he’s no longer our player, and there is little / no affinity with him anymore.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Couple of things- seems there is unsurprisingly concern about Middlesbrough v Derby Saturday!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/02/10/exclusive-middlesbrough-ramp-security-around-steve-gibson-derby/

Behind a paywall of course but it can be viewed in some ways. I did read elsewhere a few weeks ago concern that Derby fans were buying tickets or trying to buy tickers in the West Stand (the posh one, all grounds have them where directors etc sit). Presumably to get at or harangue Gibson!  Bit in the article about only those with a prior booking history with Middlesbrough able to buy in that area.

Andrew Bridgen is sounding off yet again...

The funny thing about his involvement is that his constituency isn't even Derbyshire- North West Leicestershire.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Couple of things- seems there is unsurprisingly concern about Middlesbrough v Derby Saturday!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/02/10/exclusive-middlesbrough-ramp-security-around-steve-gibson-derby/

Behind a paywall of course but it can be viewed in some ways. I did read elsewhere a few weeks ago concern that Derby fans were buying tickets or trying to buy tickers in the West Stand (the posh one, all grounds have them where directors etc sit). Presumably to get at or harangue Gibson!  Bit in the article about only those with a prior booking history with Middlesbrough able to buy in that area.

Andrew Bridgen is sounding off yet again...

The funny thing about his involvement is that his constituency isn't even Derbyshire- North West Leicestershire.

This from a man whose party says fraud isn't really a crime so as to massage the official figures and is therefore prepared to write off billions in fraudulent Covid claims. Not much concern for taxpayers losing out then.

Given this logic can we take it Derby cheating doesn't really count either?

And when can we expect Mel Morris to be nominated for a safe Tory seat?

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This from a man whose party says fraud isn't really a crime so as to massage the official figures and is therefore prepared to write off billions in fraudulent Covid claims. Not much concern for taxpayers losing out then.

Given this logic can we take it Derby cheating doesn't really count either?

And when can we expect Mel Morris to be nominated for a safe Tory seat?

Yeah no surprise- actually quite interested in how outsized a voice 5 or 6 noisy MPs appear to have- surely for one there will be MPs in seats with compliant clubs who are thoroughly hacked off at Derby and their antics who should be making some noise.

EFL issues aside, I didn't hear Bridgen mention the £28m debt to HMRC in that! Or Mel's culpability in their downfall.

[Derby_Ram]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Couple of things- seems there is unsurprisingly concern about Middlesbrough v Derby Saturday!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/02/10/exclusive-middlesbrough-ramp-security-around-steve-gibson-derby/

Behind a paywall of course but it can be viewed in some ways. I did read elsewhere a few weeks ago concern that Derby fans were buying tickets or trying to buy tickers in the West Stand (the posh one, all grounds have them where directors etc sit). 

There's been trouble - away from the grounds - a few times we've played each other recently. Even before the last couple of years. The atmosphere will be toxic and even though I'm travelling up I feel more dread and apprehension as opposed to watching a game a football. A sad state of affairs and I feel for any families attending supporting either club.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL issues aside, I didn't hear Bridgen mention the £28m debt to HMRC in that! Or Mel's culpability in their downfall.

Didn't see the full segment so no idea if Mel was mentioned by him anywhere but the HMRC debt did pop up in another clip - swiftly followed by his view that Boro/Wycombe are still the stumbling block (don't worry - I'm fully onboard that Mel should settle his bills... )

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

46 minutes ago, Derby_Ram said:

There's been trouble - away from the grounds - a few times we've played each other recently. Even before the last couple of years. The atmosphere will be toxic and even though I'm travelling up I feel more dread and apprehension as opposed to watching a game a football. A sad state of affairs and I feel for any families attending supporting either club.

Didn't see the full segment so no idea if Mel was mentioned by him anywhere but the HMRC debt did pop up in another clip - swiftly followed by his view that Boro/Wycombe are still the stumbling block (don't worry - I'm fully onboard that Mel should settle his bills... )

 

That's disappointing, especially for families and those who just want to go to enjoy it as you say. Surprising too as until the last few years, never really had Middlesbrough v Derby down as a grudge match, or a local rivalry where things can get out of hand- there are plenty of matches that fit, but not Middlesbrough v Derby prior to 2019.  Hope everyone goes to and gets away from it safely, sure there will be a beefed up police and stewarding presence.

Thanks for that- I did watch once you posted it. Bridgen isn't the most credible character in a number of ways I think- in that clip he uses the terms debtors when as we all know, debtors are people who owe money, creditors are those who are owed money. He didn't seem to specify the % that he thought should be paid either. "Accepting as potential debtors, on an unquantified basis".

In short, if Middlesbrough and Wycombe were debtors of Derby, Derby would be laughing!

I would suggest that if some reports since early summer are accurate that Wycombe's claim is quantified, at least financially- seen £6m mentioned which is probably around the gap between central awards and TV distribution between the two divisions. Middlesbrough's is way ott numerically though, £40-45m?? Pfft! Whether they would be upheld is a different matter but Wycombe's perhaps has some basis in quantifiability, if Middlesbrough claimed for the semi final playoff and TV revenue, that too might be easier to quantify.

Will actually rephrase my bit on Mel Morris and the MPs- they don't appear to criticise him much. Picked out Bridgen but could pick Solloway, Pauline I forget her name...there are a few and yet there is radio silence as far as I can see.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[PHILINFRANCE]

Like many on here, I suspect, I don't consider Mel Morris to be the most trustworthy character.

Nevertheless, he claims to have received expert legal advice that 'confirms' the claims touted by Middlesbrough and Wycombe (against Derby County) have no chance of succeeding and, to 'prove' his good faith and support for Derby, he has offered magnanimously to invite the claims to be presented directly against him personally, thus absolving Derby and/or their prospective new owners of any potential liability and allowing the proposed takeover to proceed unhindered.

For various reasons, it would seem such actions are not possible (MM has, of course, never been advised that this might be the case ) so why does this honourable gentleman not simply place an appropriate sum in an escro type account (I am thinking of approximately £60M - £45M for Middlesbrough, £5M for Wycombe and the £10M balance to cover fees, interest etc) thus enabling the takeover to proceed and save his beloved Derby County from liquidation?

After all, where is the risk?     

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more highly interesting if not startling claim.

The MSD secured loan is apparently, a falsely secured shareholder loan- according to this guy anyway! Which if reclassified as equity lops £20m off the debt. 

0:52-1:15

He also overlooks that it is external debt that is nothing or little to do with inter company loans- ie Gellaw Newco 203 to the club and so on.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One more highly interesting if not startling claim.

The MSD secured loan is apparently, a falsely secured shareholder loan- according to this guy anyway! Which if reclassified as equity lops £20m off the debt. 

0:52-1:15

He also overlooks that it is external debt that is nothing or little to do with inter company loans- ie Gellaw Newco 203 to the club and so on.

Interesting stuff. The loans and the role of the debt using the stadium as guarantee and then it becoming owned by Morris’ company has always been an anathema to me. Who in hell is really responsible for the debt. 
 

Morris is such a skuzz! He is holding a gun to everyone’s head to save himself from further loss, whipping up the supporters against claim/s, one of which had been outstanding for a long time, and Quantuma have followed the same path. 
 

While I know it suits the agenda of a lot of Derby supporters to blame the EFL MFC and WWFC for the fact the ex owner is beneath contempt, but surely most out side of the sane lad that posts here must know. 
 

If Derby go under there is one place to look.
 

I sincerely hope there is no trouble at the stadium particularly in home areas. Pretty much all sympathy would be lost!