Brentford

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, TomF said:

After 18 months - new ground, premier league football, beating a big (ish) side like Arsenal and going top of the league.   Can’t not be jealous but also happy for them, a well run decent club with great recruitment policy for several years.    

[eardun]

15 minutes ago, bris red said:

Agree but it has been almost 40 years since we have played in the top flight - that is not good enough in my opinion.

42 years by the end of this season. Mind you it was 65 years last time, and 74 years for Brentford. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

If that was us I’d be on the thatchers for the entire weekend.  Many people talk on here still about that opening day we beat Arsenal as being as one of the very best days of being a city supporter. I bet many Brentford fans will say the same in due course 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

42 years by the end of this season. Mind you it was 65 years last time, and 74 years for Brentford. 

God we’re not going to do it that quickly!

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, TomF said:

If that was us I’d be on the thatchers for the entire weekend.  Many people talk on here still about that opening day we beat Arsenal as being as one of the very best days of being a city supporter. I bet many Brentford fans will say the same in due course 

Yes you’d frame that and put it on the wall! 
we can only dream…

[eardun]

3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

God we’re not going to do it that quickly!

Brentford should have waited another season to get promoted - 75 years sounds so much better! I’m going 44 years for us - a nice ring to it, plus it caters for Pearson’s three year project.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

Brentford should have waited another season to get promoted - 75 years sounds so much better! I’m going 44 years for us - a nice ring to it, plus it caters for Pearson’s three year project.

Yes I could cope with that!

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Shaun Taylor said:

It's amazing that once little club sat beside the M4 are now much bigger than QPR 4-5 miles down the road 

They’re closer to Loftus Road than that aren’t they? It’s amazing how loyal the Bees’ support is with Fulham, Chelsea and QPR literally on their doorstep ...

[Shaun Taylor]

4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

They’re closer to Loftus Road than that aren’t they? It’s amazing how loyal the Bees’ support is with Fulham, Chelsea and QPR literally on their doorstep ...

Without checking it may well only be about 3 miles and yes they have a real loyal following and I cam remember standing on the open terrace in the 80's 

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I’m in my late 20s and struggle to see it happening in my life time

Cripes, that’s a bit doom and gloom. You make it sound as though late 20s is old. What are you going to do if you make it to 30 or even 40? 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

There's a bit of jealousy at the limelight Brentford are enjoying (especially whilst they are 1-0 up), but I am trying to turn that jealousy into admiration and inspiration. to see them (and maybe Huddersfield) get promoted does make me think that it genuinely is possible for our club to do the same. It'll take time, work, the right people and a whole bucket of luck...but it is possible.

IMHO this type of thinking is far too small-time. In fact I find it a little frustrating (nothing against you personally, OP).

Our club, given the size of our city, our catchment area, our investment in sport etc, shouldn't see Premier League football as a distant dream, nor should we see ourselves as a 'plucky little club' who would be lucky just to get a day out against the big boys. 

Do Derby, Forest, Boro, WBA, Blackburn, Stoke, Cardiff etc, look at themselves and premier league football that way? I doubt it.

IMO, we should ultimately see Premier League football as an expectation.

[Wiltshire robin]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Cripes, that’s a bit doom and gloom. You make it sound as though late 20s is old. What are you going to do if you make it to 30 or even 40? 

I’d probably be saying the same

[The Swan and Cemetery]

36 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Without checking it may well only be about 3 miles and yes they have a real loyal following and I cam remember standing on the open terrace in the 80's 

I’m thinking 84/85, Steve Neville recently joined, he got off to a slow start with us, got his first goal (maybe two) in a win at Griffin Park and there was a celebratory pitch invasion from the away faithful. Not too sure how much of that is true (if any), but it’s how I remember it. 

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

IMHO this type of thinking is far too small-time. In fact I find it a little frustrating (nothing against you personally, OP).

Our club, given the size of our city, our catchment area, our investment in sport etc, shouldn't see Premier League football as a distant dream, nor should we see ourselves as a 'plucky little club' who would be lucky just to get a day out against the big boys. 

Do Derby, Forest, Boro, WBA, Blackburn, Stoke, Cardiff etc, look at themselves and premier league football that way? I doubt it.

IMO, we should ultimately see Premier League football as an expectation.

I approach this whole question quite differently.

Fortunately we do not compete within a franchised system. Therefore, within the English system that we find ourselves in, those things in bold give us no right at all to expect any level of football. 

I don't see us as plucky or little, and I said that luck would only be one element of the required recipe for success that we need to concoct in order to have, as you put it, our "day out against the big boys". Instead I see us as a fine old club. Unsuccessful in the grand scheme of things, but with a few sparks of joy peppered throughout our history. We, like any other club (bar Arsenal), must earn our place in the top flight. I hope that we never see it as an 'expectation' or something that we are entitled to by virtue of the wealth of our owner or the population of our local area. We earned it through sporting valour before and we can do it again.

Admiring another club that has managed this feat is not small time thinking at all. It is merely noting that another club has achieved what I would like us to achieve.

As for the clubs that you list. If their fans have the temerity, hubris, and gall to view Premier League football as an "expectation" then they are no better than the Arsenal fans who are right now claiming that the ultimate tragedy has befallen their club because Brentford have dared to hand them their arse on a platter.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

Cripes, that’s a bit doom and gloom. You make it sound as though late 20s is old. What are you going to do if you make it to 30 or even 40? 

Well I was 24 the last time we were in the top flight, next year I collect my state pension so I can quite understand where he is coming from, supporting Bristol City does that to you.

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Without checking it may well only be about 3 miles and yes they have a real loyal following and I cam remember standing on the open terrace in the 80's 

I checked it on Google maps, between 4.7 and 5 miles by road. 3.5 miles approximately on foot

[Shaun Taylor]

5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I checked it on Google maps, between 4.7 and 5 miles by road. 3.5 miles approximately on foot

With Chelseas & Fulham a few miles the other way it makes you appreciate how well they we done to sustain a football club for many years.

[Port Said Red]

20 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

With Chelseas & Fulham a few miles the other way it makes you appreciate how well they we done to sustain a football club for many years.

I was always confused as a boy when my dad would talk of Brentford as a big club, and one his favourite grounds he had visited as a boy. It took a look at the First Division league tables in the 1930's and a trip to Griffin Park when it was still terraces, to understand. 

They were a consistently good side pre war when my dad was in his teens and you could see that, although it's best days were behind it, Griffin Park in its pomp and full must have been a impressive sight.

Although they have finally got things together, people who are lauding them for being so well run etc, would do well to remember that they have been in the wilderness for a long, long time, even compared to us.

[Highburnred]

8 hours ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

I’m thinking 84/85, Steve Neville recently joined, he got off to a slow start with us, got his first goal (maybe two) in a win at Griffin Park and there was a celebratory pitch invasion from the away faithful. Not too sure how much of that is true (if any), but it’s how I remember it. 

Exactly how I remember it as well, and I am certain that it was 2 goals for Neville 

[Lew-T]

Fair play to Brentford, it’s all worked out perfectly for them. New stadium, top flight, top recruitment policy…

When will we get our time in the sun?

[Garland-sweden]

5 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Fair play to Brentford, it’s all worked out perfectly for them. New stadium, top flight, top recruitment policy…

When will we get our time in the sun?

God did not invent hurry.

[Shaun Taylor]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I was always confused as a boy when my dad would talk of Brentford as a big club, and one his favourite grounds he had visited as a boy. It took a look at the First Division league tables in the 1930's and a trip to Griffin Park when it was still terraces, to understand. 

They were a consistently good side pre war when my dad was in his teens and you could see that, although it's best days were behind it, Griffin Park in its pomp and full must have been a impressive sight.

Although they have finally got things together, people who are lauding them for being so well run etc, would do well to remember that they have been in the wilderness for a long, long time, even compared to us.

To me they've always been a league 1 club along with Bournemouth but with the right owner and financial clout  the size of the fanbase dosen't matter anymore with the championship proof of that.

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I approach this whole question quite differently.

Fortunately we do not compete within a franchised system. Therefore, within the English system that we find ourselves in, those things in bold give us no right at all to expect any level of football. 

I don't see us as plucky or little, and I said that luck would only be one element of the required recipe for success that we need to concoct in order to have, as you put it, our "day out against the big boys". Instead I see us as a fine old club. Unsuccessful in the grand scheme of things, but with a few sparks of joy peppered throughout our history. We, like any other club (bar Arsenal), must earn our place in the top flight. I hope that we never see it as an 'expectation' or something that we are entitled to by virtue of the wealth of our owner or the population of our local area. We earned it through sporting valour before and we can do it again.

Admiring another club that has managed this feat is not small time thinking at all. It is merely noting that another club has achieved what I would like us to achieve.

As for the clubs that you list. If their fans have the temerity, hubris, and gall to view Premier League football as an "expectation" then they are no better than the Arsenal fans who are right now claiming that the ultimate tragedy has befallen their club because Brentford have dared to hand them their arse on a platter.

I do see where you're coming from, and you paint a very romantic picture, but it would be naive of us to ignore the fact that a club's potential to achieve is largely driven by resource.

There's a very strong correlation between the size of cities and the size/success of their respective teams. Consider London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle. (Bristol being a clear anomaly).
Of course no team deserves success by virtue of the size of their city or the wealth of their owner, but these factors tend to dictate resource, which in turn will guide both potential and expectation. Should the biggest club in Bristol expect to be competing (at least sporadically) in the premier league? IMHO, yes. 

Personally, I see such expectations as something to aspire to. It's a case of setting a standard for ourselves. Are we a club who "would like to get into the premier league and we'll try but if it doesn't happen that's okay" or are we a club who "expects to be competing in the premier league at"? How seriously do we take ourselves?

On Brentford:

I agree that admiring a club isn't small time thinking, it was your 2nd sentence I was referring to. (I should have been more clear).

Whilst Brentford's rise is admirable, I find it a source of frustration as a City fan. Another 'smaller' club who has overtaken us with less money and support available to them. Huge credit to Brentford though, they very much deserve it.

[Port Said Red]

30 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

I do see where you're coming from, and you paint a very romantic picture, but it would be naive of us to ignore the fact that a club's potential to achieve is largely driven by resource.

There's a very strong correlation between the size of cities and the size/success of their respective teams. Consider London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle. (Bristol being a clear anomaly).
Of course no team deserves success by virtue of the size of their city or the wealth of their owner, but these factors tend to dictate resource, which in turn will guide both potential and expectation. Should the biggest club in Bristol expect to be competing (at least sporadically) in the premier league? IMHO, yes. 

Personally, I see such expectations as something to aspire to. It's a case of setting a standard for ourselves. Are we a club who "would like to get into the premier league and we'll try but if it doesn't happen that's okay" or are we a club who "expects to be competing in the premier league at"? How seriously do we take ourselves?

On Brentford:

I agree that admiring a club isn't small time thinking, it was your 2nd sentence I was referring to. (I should have been more clear).

Whilst Brentford's rise is admirable, I find it a source of frustration as a City fan. Another 'smaller' club who has overtaken us with less money and support available to them. Huge credit to Brentford though, they very much deserve it.

Again  going back to my post before, historically they are not a smaller club, a ground with record gates of around 38k and a larger potential catchment area, puts them into a similar bracket to ourselves in the past. They have been in the doldrums much longer than we have currently.

[Ivorguy]

Truth is when we did make it after decades back to top flight under Alan Dicks we were totally unable to sustain it for any length of time and when we crashed we crashed right through all the leagues.  At that time I really thought that slowly but surely we would have learnt lessons and again reached the highest level, in perhaps 8 or 10 years. I never for one moment thought we’d be where we are after so many decades.  As I now look back over my support from 1950 on, I realise that second level has been for almost all the club’s history our goal.  Even now, despite my hope in NP, I feel relegation from this league  is still far more likely than promotion.

We are what we are.  Massive support but lack of either vision or football business acumen from the top of the club, sometimes both together.

But, in a sense, you could make a case for saying City’s history reflects Bristol’s history.  DISCUSS.

 

 

 

[Banjo Island]

14 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

IMHO this type of thinking is far too small-time. In fact I find it a little frustrating (nothing against you personally, OP).

Our club, given the size of our city, our catchment area, our investment in sport etc, shouldn't see Premier League football as a distant dream, nor should we see ourselves as a 'plucky little club' who would be lucky just to get a day out against the big boys. 

Do Derby, Forest, Boro, WBA, Blackburn, Stoke, Cardiff etc, look at themselves and premier league football that way? I doubt it.

IMO, we should ultimately see Premier League football as an expectation.

Sadly i dont even see the next win as an expectation let a lone premier league football

[big dosser]

got to give Thomas frank full credit what a great manager who seems to love his fans. What other manager would do what he done at the end. First class in my book and we can only hope,im totally bloody jealous

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Supersonic Robin said:

I do see where you're coming from, and you paint a very romantic picture, but it would be naive of us to ignore the fact that a club's potential to achieve is largely driven by resource.

There's a very strong correlation between the size of cities and the size/success of their respective teams. Consider London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle. (Bristol being a clear anomaly).
Of course no team deserves success by virtue of the size of their city or the wealth of their owner, but these factors tend to dictate resource, which in turn will guide both potential and expectation. Should the biggest club in Bristol expect to be competing (at least sporadically) in the premier league? IMHO, yes. 

Personally, I see such expectations as something to aspire to. It's a case of setting a standard for ourselves. Are we a club who "would like to get into the premier league and we'll try but if it doesn't happen that's okay" or are we a club who "expects to be competing in the premier league at"? How seriously do we take ourselves?

On Brentford:

I agree that admiring a club isn't small time thinking, it was your 2nd sentence I was referring to. (I should have been more clear).

Whilst Brentford's rise is admirable, I find it a source of frustration as a City fan. Another 'smaller' club who has overtaken us with less money and support available to them. Huge credit to Brentford though, they very much deserve it.

Fair. I'd interpreted your first post as having a more 'entitled' sentiment.

I do recognise that, in general (although with some notable anomalies), large cities/conurbations provide the majority of the major football clubs. Bristol is of course the wrong sort of anomaly in that regard. If we tone it down from deserve/expect to "probably should be" in the Prem then sure, we can agree on that.

I also absolutely share your frustrations. I guess right now my feelings of admiration for Brantford outweigh my frustrations with City. I'd also add that I do have a soft spot for the Bees. For a time they were almost my local team in London and Griffin Park is my second most visited ground after AG. I even went to home games there on occasion if I wanted a day out with the boys and we couldn't get to one of our teams' games. So I'm biased on this particular subject.