The Pearson Debate - Something Not Mentioned Yet…

[The Original OTIB]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I suspect we are still using it.

On a Statto side note, do you have access to running stats (distance covered) for us thus far this season? I'd be interested to know where we sit, as one measure of work rate.

[Major Isewater]

51 minutes ago, italian dave said:

always felt that the “signings” of Weimann and Baker felt odd

Safe signings during a time of upheaval I suppose . 
I was equally surprised at the time though. Baker in particular but I read that his contract is loaded with appearance clauses , can’t validate that though.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

On a Statto side note, do you have access to running stats (distance covered) for us thus far this season? I'd be interested to know where we sit, as one measure of work rate.

No, wish I did…..Bundesliga publish some fairly basic stuff for free.

Think it was Weimann who said we ran more than any other team.  Perhaps we are running needlessly at times through poor anticipation and structure.

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Safe signings during a time of upheaval I suppose . 
I was equally surprised at the time though. Baker in particular but I read that his contract is loaded with appearance clauses , can’t validate that though.

Nige said it was heavily incentivised.

[The Original OTIB]

Just now, Davefevs said:

No, wish I did…..Bundesliga publish some fairly basic stuff for free.

Think it was Weimann who said we ran more than any other team.  Perhaps we are running needlessly at times through poor anticipation and structure.

Watching Man Utd yesterday, it felt like an elite version of us recently. No obvious coaching or plan, and Sky gave a stat that they were near bottom of the PL in distances covered as well as tackling, the latter if i recall correctly. A bad sign at any club.

[Port Said Red]

I see no value in the OP other to stir shit. We don't know how the recruit side of the club is run or much about those who are in it, more importantly we are in no position to do anything about it. Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with. I have no idea who Harry is and to be honest I don't care, but no matter how much he presents this information as fact, it is soured by his opinions. He may know "some agents", but everything I have ever read or heard about agents would make me wary of listening to them as a source of truth.

[BCFCGav]

Obviously we have no way of knowing if everything you’re saying is true, but if you are genuinely connected and this is all factual regarding recruitment it is concerning. 
 

Regarding Nige though, I think this is harsh. With very few signings he has improved us vastly, even without Shakespeare and Walsh. Obviously the last 3 games have been rough but prior to that we were 9th. Better than the 24th form we had second half of last year. Nige is improving us, and once the shaky AG mentality is corrected the table will reflect how far we’ve come under him already.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

I see no value in the OP other to stir shit. We don't know how the recruit side of the club is run or much about those who are in it, more importantly we are in no position to do anything about it. Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with. I have no idea who Harry is and to be honest I don't care, but no matter how much he presents this information as fact, it is soured by his opinions. He may know "some agents", but everything I have ever read or heard about agents would make me wary of listening to them as a source of truth.

I think he's raising and interesting subject worthy of debate, whatever side he may stand on. This being a forum, and a football one at that, let the debate unfold.

[mozo]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

I had a huge axe to grind when Ashton was here as I knew exactly what his game was and that it wasn’t healthy for this club. I had personal dealings with him and knew he was a rotter. 
And now I have an axe to grind because Lansdown has let the club go from 1 man controlling everything to no one in control of recruitment at all. 
I don’t have anything against the data analysts whatsoever. They are a perfectly normal part of the modern game. 
But I do have a mountainous problem with a data analyst running the whole recruitment department and not taking phone calls from agents. 
Do you agree that a proper Head of Recruitment is needed? 

Ashton might be gone but there is still so much weirdness at our club.

Recruitment is one good example. 

The search for significant investment is also a weird elephant in the room. We know it is an active concept but we don't know any detail around it.

And why are we refreshing the coaching personnel 3 months into the season?

Are there issues behind the scenes as one poster suggested?

Gould and Pearson seem like the types of people we need to get us on course but I'm still confused by much of what is going on.

[Port Said Red]

6 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

I think he's raising and interesting subject worthy of debate, whatever side he may stand on. This being a forum, and a football one at that, let the debate unfold.

Facts are useful in debates.

[The Original OTIB]

Just now, Port Said Red said:

Facts are useful in debates.

Indeed they are, but so are opinions. 

[Port Said Red]

Just now, The Original OTIB said:

Indeed they are, but so are opinions. 

As long as they are not presented as facts, for example "we shouldn't have re-signed Weimann", that's not a fact and overall so far this season, I for one am glad it's not Harry's decision.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

As long as they are not presented as facts, for example "we shouldn't have re-signed Weimann", that's not a fact and overall so far this season, I for one am glad it's not Harry's decision.

I think you'll find that's an opinion.

Just now, JonDolman said:

I remember a Sunderland documentary in the 90s in a season they went down from the prem.

Peter Reid sat at his desk going through a Rothmans book looking for players to sign. 

Whilst drinking a fair amount of beer.

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Watching Man Utd yesterday, it felt like an elite version of us recently. No obvious coaching or plan, and Sky gave a stat that they were near bottom of the PL in distances covered as well as tackling, the latter if i recall correctly. A bad sign at any club.

I was doing tea and only half listening to Neville’s analysis on their pressing…..it sounded like us in the last 3-4 games.

10 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Facts are useful in debates.

At least Harry has worked for City in Ashton’s time.  That’s a useful starting point.

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I remember a Sunderland documentary in the 90s in a season they went down from the prem.

Peter Reid sat at his desk going through a Rothmans book looking for players to sign. 

Don’t diss Rothmans….although the Football League Directory annual publication (Tony Williams) was more detailed.

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with.

As this is a Forum, this is exactly what should be debated. It's not just moaning about beer prices and poor performances.

@Harry said "we are probably the only professional football club in the country who doesn’t currently have a Head of Recruitment or Chief Scout. A bit concerning if true, but if true worthy of debate.

@bcfcfinker posted this link, which explains the Dept.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/inside-bristol-citys-recruitment-team-6030875

It talks about how it works, weekly meeting with Pearson, the analysts and scouts and the CEO, plus Lansdown. It says Sean Gilhespy heads up the Dept, he's an analyst , which is what Harry said to start with.  Gilhespy says "There's been several heads of scouting over the last four or five years and it's kind of drifted aside now, and merged together into one place. It's probably more hybrid than being one or the other,"
So no head as such, which may be deliberate as he talks of a different set up. I have a feeling that, if Nige wants a DoF or head of recruitment, he'll get it. The main reason why SL has changed and gone with a tough , experienced Manager is , IMO, to get the whole club organised , running better and more structured.

[Kingswood Robin]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What’s the point in paying a Head of Recruitment when we haven’t got any money to bring anyone in? 
 

When you've got nothing, you need people that can make something from nothing. Turn a spark into a flame!

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was doing tea and only half listening to Neville’s analysis on their pressing…..it sounded like us in the last 3-4 games

The difference in the Press was startling . Watch MotD2 on catch up, Ian Wright isn't impressed 

[Bristol Rob]

32 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

Turn a (bright) spark into a flame!

My beats per minute 'never been the same.

#GoGo

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

The difference in the Press was startling . Watch MotD2 on catch up, Ian Wright isn't impressed 

Micah Richards video analysis spot on too.

You could’ve easily swapped Man Utd for us and Liverpool for West Brom.  Similar errors.

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I see no value in the OP other to stir shit. We don't know how the recruit side of the club is run or much about those who are in it, more importantly we are in no position to do anything about it. Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with. I have no idea who Harry is and to be honest I don't care, but no matter how much he presents this information as fact, it is soured by his opinions. He may know "some agents", but everything I have ever read or heard about agents would make me wary of listening to them as a source of truth.

I think it is a valid point he raised about there being no HoR. 

When it comes to not answering calls from agents I'm not sure that would be a surprise. If they are anthing like recruitment agencies in the 'real' world I don't blame them. I get fed up with the emails and voicemails I get from them. That's as someone who only recruits one or two people a year! 

[Harry]

11 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

And now to give a fuller description of this fella Sean Gilhespy:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/inside-bristol-citys-recruitment-team-6030875

It's not full of the emotional baggage Harry seems to carry around, which on occasion seems to be a chip on the shoulder, but maybe City are a bit more discerning on the agents they talk too and Harry's 'agent acquaintances' aren't on City's, so don't get their calls returned?

The article gives a fuller insight to recruitment at City. Not traditional and probably not to everyones liking, but nor are Harry's personal ramblings about how he thinks recruitment should be done.

No emotional baggage here mr finker. 
The article you linked is the article to which I referred in my opening post. So I’ve not attempted to hide anything. 
I have no chip on my shoulder at all. I’m simply extremely concerned that one of the most important roles at a pro football club is being run by amateurs. 
As for the agents I refer to; it’s not a small selection with minor clients. These are worldwide agencies, hugely respected. I know from personal conversations that our current set up is viewed as a laughing stock. It has to change. Immediately. 
 

I get it - Mr Gilhespy must be a friend of yours. That’s fine. And good on you for defending him. I have no doubts, as I said in my post, that he’s a nice chap and a competent data analyst. But do you really think he should be in charge of player recruitment for a club with Premier League ambition?? Be honest. 

[Harry]

6 hours ago, 054123 said:

Either way you’d be awfully naïve to not fully recognise just what ‘rebuild’ actually means.

The next few years is going to be a bumpy road and if a ‘bad 7 days’ gives you the shits then it might be best you look away now.

It’s not a bad 7 days. I refer to the summer recruitment and the limitations that we were under - simply because we had no one in place of any experience who was able to engage with player agents to bring the right people in. 
I’ve only posted this now because it was actually a half-defence of Nige and the stick he’s been getting. I was trying to point out that a 3 year rebuild needed to start as soon as Nige was appointed and that we really should have professionalised the recruitment team at that time too. It’s an essential part of the necessary rebuild. 

5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What’s the point in paying a Head of Recruitment when we haven’t got any money to bring anyone in? 
 

Either this is a very naive post or an intentional fishing trip. I’m assuming the latter. 
 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I see no value in the OP other to stir shit. We don't know how the recruit side of the club is run or much about those who are in it, more importantly we are in no position to do anything about it. Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with. I have no idea who Harry is and to be honest I don't care, but no matter how much he presents this information as fact, it is soured by his opinions. He may know "some agents", but everything I have ever read or heard about agents would make me wary of listening to them as a source of truth.

No stirring. Just huge concern that we have an amateur recruitment department. 
Be honest - do you think a club with Premier League ambition should have a recruitment department being run by a handful of data analysts with absolutely zero pro-game experience? 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

No stirring. Just huge concern that we have an amateur recruitment department. 
Be honest - do you think a club with Premier League ambition should have a recruitment department being run by a handful of data analysts with absolutely zero pro-game experience? 

Rovers did that with hilarious consequences.

Gawd Bless Garner.

[Bris Red]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I see no value in the OP other to stir shit. We don't know how the recruit side of the club is run or much about those who are in it, more importantly we are in no position to do anything about it. Even if the information was valid it only serves to be a rod to beat the club with. I have no idea who Harry is and to be honest I don't care, but no matter how much he presents this information as fact, it is soured by his opinions. He may know "some agents", but everything I have ever read or heard about agents would make me wary of listening to them as a source of truth.

Believe it or not Bristol City football club is not like the North Korean state and information about the ‘’inner workings’’ of most parts of the club if you know the right people and ask the right questions can be fairly easily obtainable.
I have no reason to believe the OP is shit stirring as what he is telling us is pretty much the exact same information I heard through a source that i have at the club. It’s certainly far from top secret information i can assure you on that and quite frankly if i was SL i would be fairly embarrassed/annoyed at the set up especially considering how well he has done with the physical infrastructure of the football club in the past 5 years.

[exAtyeoMax]

Was recruitment covered in the question and answer session at the H&C the other week? 

[054123]

24 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s not a bad 7 days. I refer to the summer recruitment and the limitations that we were under - simply because we had no one in place of any experience who was able to engage with player agents to bring the right people in. 
I’ve only posted this now because it was actually a half-defence of Nige and the stick he’s been getting. I was trying to point out that a 3 year rebuild needed to start as soon as Nige was appointed and that we really should have professionalised the recruitment team at that time too. It’s an essential part of the necessary rebuild. 

Either this is a very naive post or an intentional fishing trip. I’m assuming the latter. 
 

I know its not just a ‘bad 7 days’ Harry, that was my point.

If the past 7 days have given you kittens, best take a break for a little bit as the rebuild needed will no doubt see other ‘bad 7 days’ along the way.

Time to buckle up!

[Edgy Red]

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What’s the point in paying a Head of Recruitment when we haven’t got any money to bring anyone in? 
 

Spot on... all we ever hear about is the restrictions of FFP and that our hands are tied regarding recruitment, so whats the point in having a team of experts if we can't afford to buy them!

[054123]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Was recruitment covered in the question and answer session at the H&C the other week? 

I don’t what was.

3piapc did comment that they didn’t like the Lockyer song from the other week #prorities

[Rob k]

2 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

Spot on... all we ever hear about is the restrictions of FFP and that our hands are tied regarding recruitment, so whats the point in having a team of experts if we can't afford to buy them!

The players are out there - i know of players recommend to the club we have missed out on which we could have had for peanuts - Ollie Watkins being one 

[Edgy Red]

1 minute ago, Rob k said:

The players are out there - i know of players recommend to the club we have missed out on which we could have had for peanuts - Ollie Watkins being one 

Of course there is talent out there but any player who shows promise in the 9th tier of English football will already have numerous clubs, much bigger than us, looking at them.

I think we missed a big trick not bringing in 1 or 2 Prem youngsters on loan in the summer.