Davefevs Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Very timely: and also very apt. Of course theoretical, but in other posts we mention Coventry and Luton….these get the ABCD nicely balanced and aligned. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Very timely: and also very apt. Of course theoretical, but in other posts we mention Coventry and Luton….these get the ABCD nicely balanced and aligned. And this is exactly why im So harsh on SL - he’s the one who’s seen us swing from one strategy to another without any clear style or future planning. It’s also why NP has a free hit this season with me, this squad is a mess and will take a while to sort. 14 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rob k said: And this is exactly why im So harsh on SL - he’s the one who’s seen us swing from one strategy to another without any clear style or future planning. It’s also why NP has a free hit this season with me, this squad is a mess and will take a while to sort. Pure speculation from me but you wonder if the bottom right (C) is why we now have different coaches. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Useful model which applies to any organisation (replacing players for employees obvs). Just means having a clear vision and strategy and implementing them so the operation / execution are aligned. I've often wondered how SL managed to be so successful at Hargreaves Lansdown - or at least what his role was in their success. I guess he was the bean-counter in chief rather than the big vision guy? On the other hand the whole Bristol Sport thing is big vision stuff, (much as I think it's an annoying distraction from the football), so maybe he just doesn't know how to operationalise his vision. Certainly his recruitment of key leadership staff has been poor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Daniro said: I've often wondered how SL managed to be so successful at Hargreaves Lansdown - or at least what his role was in their success. I guess he was the bean-counter in chief rather than the big vision guy? Peter Hargreaves! Actually, I’ve no idea….but there are quite a few on here that worked for HL in senior roles who might know whether PH was the “big-dog”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Pure speculation from me but you wonder if the bottom right (C) is why we now have different coaches. Almost certainly I would think. My guess is that Nige has a particular coach he would like to bring in who isn't available yet. Hence the club saying we are not currently looking to recruit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Is there not a 5th piece - the Fans. "The Fans should be informed in an honest and appropriate level, in order that they may understand the realistic aspirations of the Club, and the limitations that the Owners, Board, Coaches and Players have." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyClapper Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Pure speculation from me but you wonder if the bottom right (C) is why we now have different coaches. Could well be. It seems that we are working to align elements a,b,c and figuring which players fit. I’m certain there are several of the first team squad who won’t be here as soon as contracts, the market, ffp allows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 27 minutes ago, Rob k said: And this is exactly why im So harsh on SL - he’s the one who’s seen us swing from one strategy to another without any clear style or future planning. It’s also why NP has a free hit this season with me, this squad is a mess and will take a while to sort. Mate with respect, he waited a long time before appointing Holden and Dick and Dom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniro Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Is there not a 5th piece - the Fans. "The Fans should be informed in an honest and appropriate level, in order that they may understand the realistic aspirations of the Club, and the limitations that the Owners, Board, Coaches and Players have." Interesting to compare the role of fans as against customers in a more organisational model. Someone was asked on another thread if they considered themselves a fan or a customer. Personally I think, given how much we are charged for our support, we should be treated as customers and therefore as "kings", but I understand the view that others have that being a true fan means unquestioning loyalty to the shirt! We've had a lot of disappointment for many years under the current regime and can expect at least one more I fear which is a test of anyone's commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 A straightforward jigsaw plan - pretty much common sense. I guess it might help some City actually grasp what is going within the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: A straightforward jigsaw plan - pretty much common sense. I guess it might help some City actually grasp what is going within the club. Give me a clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Not exactly rocket science is it? Seems to me that I can never remember us having piece B in all the time SL has been the owner. I think he relied upon a combination of himself and the manager e.g. GJ do set this and that's, imo, where we have gone wrong for years. I reckon Ashton thought he was doing it but he isn't qualified to do so. If NP sets the vision now and then gets moved on we are back to square one. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, chinapig said: Almost certainly I would think. My guess is that Nige has a particular coach he would like to bring in who isn't available yet. Hence the club saying we are not currently looking to recruit. Treading water until the Summer. Not just another coach either - IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 42 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Peter Hargreaves! Actually, I’ve no idea….but there are quite a few on here that worked for HL in senior roles who might know whether PH was the “big-dog”. My hunch is that he knows & understands a great deal about finance, but knows nothing about football. What I don’t get is how he was taken in by a double glazing salesman like Ashton, because if you do your due diligence & speak to anyone who was involved with Watford that wasn’t in his little gang, you then look elsewhere. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 32 minutes ago, Daniro said: Interesting to compare the role of fans as against customers in a more organisational model. Someone was asked on another thread if they considered themselves a fan or a customer. Personally I think, given how much we are charged for our support, we should be treated as customers and therefore as "kings", but I understand the view that others have that being a true fan means unquestioning loyalty to the shirt! We've had a lot of disappointment for many years under the current regime and can expect at least one more I fear which is a test of anyone's commitment. Yeh, I'm not sure my wording accurately encapsulates the role of the fan/customer in a modern club. But I do think that fans are rhe 5th element. In order to be able to give honest and passionate support, both financially and emotionally, fans do also need to buy into the style of football, and style of Club, that the owners want. They can't do that without being given the information they need to allow an understanding of the methods used and the style aimed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob k said: And this is exactly why im So harsh on SL - he’s the one who’s seen us swing from one strategy to another without any clear style or future planning. It’s also why NP has a free hit this season with me, this squad is a mess and will take a while to sort. That’s completely wrong. SL has a strategy/policy of a manager creating a squad with a blend of youngsters and experienced players - that’s why he was so patient with LJ. As far I’m aware SL wasn’t involved in the recruiting after LJ was sacked and left it to Smarmy Ashton and Invisible Jon and when the DH fiasco unravelled SL gets involved and within 48 hrs recruited Nige primarily to keep us up and that eventually led to a three year contract - so say that SL has no clear future planning is nonsense. If we go back 4 or 5 years SL talked about ‘sustainability and stability’ and again sustainability is entirely financial and stability is something that LJ achieved and now Nige is doing the same. I can’t remember where but SL said that he’d seen managers come and go and each one brought his own staff and that in itself has a destabilising effect on the entire football club and one more reason he stood by LJ for so long. Now with a three year contract Nige is again providing that stability but within the sustainability boundaries. Edited October 31, 2021 by Robbored 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludge Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, GrahamC said: My hunch is that he knows & understands a great deal about finance, but knows nothing about football. What I don’t get is how he was taken in by a double glazing salesman like Ashton, because if you do your due diligence & speak to anyone who was involved with Watford that wasn’t in his little gang, you then look elsewhere. Happy to be corrected, but I’d be amazed if lansdown’s due diligence ever includes speaking to people in football. ‘It’s my money and I know best’ seems to be the historic strategy.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Robbored said: That’s completely wrong. SL has a strategy/policy of a manager creating a squad with a blend of youngsters and experienced players - that’s why he was so patient with LJ. As far I’m aware SL wasn’t involved in the recruiting after LJ was sacked and left it to Smarmy Ashton and Invisible Jon and when the DH fiasco unravelled SL gets involved and within 48 hrs recruited Nige primarily to keep us up and that eventually led to a three year contract - so say that SL has no clear future planning is nonsense. If we go back 4 or 5 years SL talked about ‘sustainability and stability’ and again sustainability is entirely financial and stability is something that LJ achieved and now Nige is doing the same. I can’t remember where but SL said that he’d seen managers come and go and each one brought his own staff and that in itself has a destabilising effect on the entire football club and one more reason he stood by LJ for so long. Now with a three year contract Nige is again providing that stability but within the sustainability boundaries. Everything goes through SL make no mistake of that 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, BigTone said: Give me a clue here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rob k said: Everything goes through SL make no mistake of that That’s true of course but he wasn’t involved in the recruiting after LJ was sacked. He left it to Ashton and invisible Jon and unfortunately they completely messed it up after weeks and weeks on inertia. No doubt SL saw DH as an ideal appointment and gave it his blessing particularly as he sees stability as an essential factor and of course DH was already at the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: here you go. Thank you Your Maj. Your kindness without doubt exceeds your good looks xx Edited October 31, 2021 by BigTone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, BigTone said: Thank you Your Maj You’re welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: You’re welcome. Love you, need you, want you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, BigTone said: Love you, need you, want you I just haven’t got a clue now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, Robbored said: That’s completely wrong. SL has a strategy/policy of a manager creating a squad with a blend of youngsters and experienced players - that’s why he was so patient with LJ. As far I’m aware SL wasn’t involved in the recruiting after LJ was sacked and left it to Smarmy Ashton and Invisible Jon and when the DH fiasco unravelled SL gets involved and within 48 hrs recruited Nige primarily to keep us up and that eventually led to a three year contract - so say that SL has no clear future planning is nonsense. If we go back 4 or 5 years SL talked about ‘sustainability and stability’ and again sustainability is entirely financial and stability is something that LJ achieved and now Nige is doing the same. I can’t remember where but SL said that he’d seen managers come and go and each one brought his own staff and that in itself has a destabilising effect on the entire football club and one more reason he stood by LJ for so long. Now with a three year contract Nige is again providing that stability but within the sustainability boundaries. Given that our costs escalated out of control in the period Ashton was allowed free rein he has a very odd idea of sustainability then. The nearest we had to a publicly declared strategy in that period was Ashton repeatedly saying "we are a trading club". On the playing front, having said he wanted to play a high pressing, quick passing style and achieving that for a while, LJ abandoned it in favour of changing things on an almost weekly basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedsHeadIs Red Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Great thread. This really is a Premier League forum. Getting a bit silly now though Major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: I just haven’t got a clue now. I'm on my way to visit right now big boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TedsHeadIs Red said: Great thread. This really is a Premier League forum. Getting a bit silly now though Major. Don't you pick on Chunky Trunks !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, BigTone said: Love you, need you, want you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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