Wells, Weimann, Martin

[The Bard]

Whatever formation we play, I am not a fan of starting all 3 of them at the moment. It increases the risk of injury and puts the manager in the position where he can't really change things off the bench.  Apart from that 5 minute spell on Saturday they have produced nothing together and any front 3 needs one player with the ability to go past an opponent. 

Given their age and injury records, surely it would make sense for our current 3 games in 8 days to mix + match. Give each player 2 starts and 1 sub appearance. If we want to play a 3 why not use that as an opportunity to give the likes of Benarous and Scott starts without us being too reliant on them.  

 

[real_bristol]

I thought Wells and Weimann linked up well during QPR and Barnsley games. “That” QPR goal was a telepathic assist by Weimann. Martin offers very little as far as I can see but I’m no expert and have been watching via Robins tv as (fortunately) I’ve not been able to attend. At this stage it has to be worth trying something else i.e. don’t start Martin.

[Totterdown's Finest]

Worth considering that last night, even with these 3 on the pitch, we had one shot on target. 

[Loosey Boy]

3 hours ago, real_bristol said:

I thought Wells and Weimann linked up well during QPR and Barnsley games. “That” QPR goal was a telepathic assist by Weimann. Martin offers very little as far as I can see but I’m no expert and have been watching via Robins tv as (fortunately) I’ve not been able to attend. At this stage it has to be worth trying something else i.e. don’t start Martin.

Think Martin needs a rest….nothing to lose in giving AW and NW a go up front with Scott or Palmer in behind…..

[Bs4Red]

Weimann is poor. Our ceiling is so low currently that “working hard” “giving 100%” “runs a lot” are enough to be seen as a good player. 

He goes missing for multiple games like last night then pops up with a couple of goals. 

He had 2 clear cut chances last night, the lob and left footed shot that any decent striker puts away. 

[westonred]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Martin is the one criticised most but I think he's been our best striker this season, by some distance. Though of course little to go on with Wells.

Derby fans said 3 seasons ago that Martin is quality but lacks pace never looks fit and cannot play 2 games a week we are flogging the guy this season i would just use him as an impact sub as and when needed

[HoldYourHorses123]

You cannot play all 3 at once. It makes it even harder to build a relationshipship and an understanding of what their strengths are. Also leaves us short of an attacking player in the bench.

I would start Martin and have Wells playing off him, making runs into the channels and behind the defence. Weinmann would be "an impact sub" coming on if required.

Or scrap the above and start again in January signing a proper number 9 ?

[Sir Geoff]

Our problem isn' t the strikers it's the total lack of creativity behind them and from the wings. Harry Kane wouldn't score in this side. We need a creative midfielder and a bit of pace out wide, not anew striker imo.

[Shuffle]

Weimann can only play centrally as technique to be the creative person in behind the front two just isn’t there.  Why oh why we persist with him there is beyond me and has to be Wells and Weimann up top if we play with two.  IMO Martin partially selected due to defensive quality & that cannot be right.  Martin has had some decent games but cannot play 3 in a week or even a full 90 mins

[Super]

Lets be honest if Martin was a dog he would have been put down by now. He is totally ineffective in games almost like playing with ten men.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Super

[1960maaan]

I thought Martin struggled last night, made the runs, worked the channels but it broke down with him too often. Wells made runs , but Bakinson's passing was off. Weimann made runs , actually got in a few decent positions. As a 3, they just don't work. 
I would like to see Wells & Weimann together, it would give Bakinson (or whoever) more to aim at. Get Wells away from the touchline, into where he can affect games. Get AW in where he can lick up loose balls, 6 goals shows he can. 

Surely it's time to try AW & NW together , I think their movement would make us more of a threat . I think it would bring more out of midfield, give them targets . 

[Clutton Caveman]

7 hours ago, The Bard said:

Whatever formation we play, I am not a fan of starting all 3 of them at the moment. It increases the risk of injury and puts the manager in the position where he can't really change things off the bench.  Apart from that 5 minute spell on Saturday they have produced nothing together and any front 3 needs one player with the ability to go past an opponent. 

Given their age and injury records, surely it would make sense for our current 3 games in 8 days to mix + match. Give each player 2 starts and 1 sub appearance. If we want to play a 3 why not use that as an opportunity to give the likes of Benarous and Scott starts without us being too reliant on them.  

 

Did you see Benarous against Barnsley?

[Daniro]

57 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Our problem isn' t the strikers it's the total lack of creativity behind them and from the wings. Harry Kane wouldn't score in this side. We need a creative midfielder and a bit of pace out wide, not anew striker imo.

Was about to say the same.   There is no service from the midfield who don't seem to be able to retain possession.  HNM occasionally gets a good ball forward but that's about it.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, The Bard said:

Whatever formation we play, I am not a fan of starting all 3 of them at the moment. It increases the risk of injury and puts the manager in the position where he can't really change things off the bench.  Apart from that 5 minute spell on Saturday they have produced nothing together and any front 3 needs one player with the ability to go past an opponent. 

Given their age and injury records, surely it would make sense for our current 3 games in 8 days to mix + match. Give each player 2 starts and 1 sub appearance. If we want to play a 3 why not use that as an opportunity to give the likes of Benarous and Scott starts without us being too reliant on them.  

 

I agree.  For me the biggest issue is that we can’t afford the luxury of a number 10 / in the hole player whether that be 4312-diamond or 5212.  In Weimann’s case, playing him there limits his effectiveness.

In some respects it reminds me a little of Cotts 3412 in 15/16, where Freeman was all bustling energy, but in the tightest area on the pitch, and he continually got caught on the ball….that’s when we could find him.  I’d rather we played a flat 3 last night, even if that meant Weimann RCM, James CM, Bakinson LCM.

@JonDolmani disagree re Wells.  Since coming back in he’s looked pretty sharp, been a good option.  Last night he was below par, but his performances have been pretty decent.

Bard - yes we need to manage the workload of all 3 better, most definitely Martin.

[GrahamC]

Certainly makes sense to give Martin a rest, though I won’t be putting any money on it happening.

Presumably it is down to the absence of Williams & King but don’t understand why we have moved away from the 4-4-1-1 which at least looked like a plan & we were often in games.

I would revert to this with Weimann & Wells as the front two at Coventry (but I doubt we will).

[Bris Red]

13 hours ago, Super said:

Lets be honest if Martin was a dog he would have been put down by now. He is totally ineffective in games almost like playing with ten men.

I’ve said it on another thread that in his defence he is not being used affectively Pearson, the guy looks completely burnt out playing 2 games a week. A fresh Martin used correctly is still a decent striker at this level IMO.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

15 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Weimann is poor. Our ceiling is so low currently that “working hard” “giving 100%” “runs a lot” are enough to be seen as a good player. 

He goes missing for multiple games like last night then pops up with a couple of goals. 

He had 2 clear cut chances last night, the lob and left footed shot that any decent striker puts away. 

6 goals so far this season isn’t amazing, but it’s not bad (joint 11th in the Championship). He’s not a great natural finisher, but if he was putting away all/most of his chances, he’d be Mitrovic and therefore wouldn’t be here. Like a fair few players, not being played in his optimal position often enough due to squad lacking depth. I’m all in on Conway and Britton’s fitness regime bearing fruit. 

[grifty]

For me, it would be Martin off to rest for a bit and bring Palmer in to play the role Weimann is playing now and push Andi up top.

Weimann has got into some good positions in the attacking midfielder position, but his lack of creativity or ability to pass seriously ends any attack we have.

Palmer can see a pass and playing further forward, we wouldn't rely/get caught out if he has a lapse of concentration when marking someone. I don't think we've really ever played Palmer in that more advanced role for a decent period of time. The only game I can remember him playing was vs Northampton in the cup last year where we won 4-0 and he was involved in 3 of the goals. OK, so they were a lower league team, but at least it was some creativity!

[mozo]

Weimann is the only one I particularly appreciate and even then I find him frustrating. 

I'd rest the other two.

[MattWSM]

If all players fit this would be my preferred starting 11 and the preferred 6 subs, 7th sub would depend on who is missing from 16. 

I like Pring further forward, more in Midfield rather than the 3 strikers, Weimann can cover right side when needed to support defence with his pace and leave Wells as lone striker. Pring can cover Dasilva when needed and double up. Solid ability and experience across the back, Midfield with ability to stop play  break up play and distribute. W&W speed. Missing a big strikers so Baker, Kalas and Atkinson to be the strength for set plays. 

 

O Dowda ,Tanner, Palmer, Martin, Semenyo and Scott impact subs, dependent on situation, scoreline, bookings, injuries and match form

 

Bentley 

Baker, Kalas, Atkinson, Dasilva

Massengo, King, James, Pring

Weimann, Wells

Subs

O,Dowda

Tanner

Palmer

Martin

Semenyo

Scott

Rotate - Pearson, Williams, Janneh, Bell, Benarous, Conway, Bakinson, Vyner, O'Leary

At the moment don't see we need, Simpson

 

[Swede]

It has to be two banks of four. We are so porous at the moment and too narrow.

Martin needs balls played into him not down the channels or lumped aimlessly in his direction. He needs a rest as we are too predictable.

[SBB]

19 minutes ago, MattWSM said:

If all players fit this would be my preferred starting 11 and the preferred 6 subs, 7th sub would depend on who is missing from 16. 

I like Pring further forward, more in Midfield rather than the 3 strikers, Weimann can cover right side when needed to support defence with his pace and leave Wells as lone striker. Pring can cover Dasilva when needed and double up. Solid ability and experience across the back, Midfield with ability to stop play  break up play and distribute. W&W speed. Missing a big strikers so Baker, Kalas and Atkinson to be the strength for set plays. 

 

O Dowda ,Tanner, Palmer, Martin, Semenyo and Scott impact subs, dependent on situation, scoreline, bookings, injuries and match form

 

Bentley 

Baker, Kalas, Atkinson, Dasilva

Massengo, King, James, Pring

Weimann, Wells

Subs

O,Dowda

Tanner

Palmer

Martin

Semenyo

Scott

Rotate - Pearson, Williams, Janneh, Bell, Benarous, Conway, Bakinson, Vyner, O'Leary

At the moment don't see we need, Simpson

 

Baker at right back? Interesting. 

[MattWSM]

1 hour ago, SBB said:

Baker at right back? Interesting. 

Yes I know, that's where it doesn't quite work......:) but don't want to leave him out

[Son of Fred]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I agree.  For me the biggest issue is that we can’t afford the luxury of a number 10 / in the hole player whether that be 4312-diamond or 5212.  In Weimann’s case, playing him there limits his effectiveness.

In some respects it reminds me a little of Cotts 3412 in 15/16, where Freeman was all bustling energy, but in the tightest area on the pitch, and he continually got caught on the ball….that’s when we could find him.  I’d rather we played a flat 3 last night, even if that meant Weimann RCM, James CM, Bakinson LCM.

@JonDolmani disagree re Wells.  Since coming back in he’s looked pretty sharp, been a good option.  Last night he was below par, but his performances have been pretty decent.

Bard - yes we need to manage the workload of all 3 better, most definitely Martin.

Id be 4-3-2-1 at Coventry..

Three defensive mid's giving a solid base...

Just the one up top to be either Wells or Weimann,,you choose.

If Wells starts up top I'd not start Weimann in the Two - save those legs for the last 20.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Son of Fred

[RedM]

To me the three of them just seem to get in each others way. No understanding between them and no one wants to take responsibility on the whole.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

7 hours ago, MattWSM said:

Yes I know, that's where it doesn't quite work......:) but don't want to leave him out

Would be a complete mess and far worse than having Simpson or anyone else there. If wanting to fit him in the side then Kalas could play there having done so throughout his career, with Baker in the centre.

[Waconda]

23 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Our problem isn' t the strikers it's the total lack of creativity behind them and from the wings. Harry Kane wouldn't score in this side. We need a creative midfielder and a bit of pace out wide, not anew striker imo.

Sadly we are a "bang it forward" side. Dribbling is actively discouraged. 

If you are going to play that way you have to have a big target man up front  to hold the ball up and bring runners in to play or else the ball keeps coming back.

Pointless playing Wells and Weimann in a route one team. 

[MattWSM]

On 03/11/2021 at 07:59, Sir Geoff said:

Our problem isn' t the strikers it's the total lack of creativity behind them and from the wings. Harry Kane wouldn't score in this side. We need a creative midfielder and a bit of pace out wide, not anew striker imo.

This is exactly the problem and the right answer IMO. it's only 1 or 2 changes in Midfield which will make the vital difference. James, possibly King with Massengo and Pring is my 1st choice, Tanner off the bench and grow with the nucleus of these 4.

Contradicting myself a bit but....We might need more flair but this is a solid Midfield so would at least stop us from losing in the manner we did at Bham and WBA.

No Vyner No Bakinson, 4 at the back and two up front,  Martin off the bench if needed

[The Journalist]

I don't get the obsession with even playing two up top, let alone three.

There's a good argument for going five across midfield and properly trying to get hold of the middle third of the pitch, something we've not done enough.

Something like...

Bentley

Tanner - Kalas - Atkinson - Dasilva

Scott - Massengo - James - Bakinson - Pring

Weimann/Wells

You're obviously asking Scott to come inside off the right and get involved in the play, and you possibly play Bakinson slightly more advanced given he's one of/if not our best forward-passing midfielders.

Not sure how popular it would be though given how defensive that looks. Need to get more control of the ball, though, IMO.

Edited November 4, 2021 by The Journalist

[Swede]

Well for me I would go solid  in the full back area.

Bentley

Simpson Kalas Atkinson Baker

Palmer Massengo Vyner Bakinson COD

Wells

 

No Hoofing

 

James is carrying a knock so may not feature on Saturday