Mr Lansdown Just Stick With It!

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I said signings of players "in contract" - sorry you can't read properly.

Since you've mentioned them though. King's last club was Leuven who were probably paying him peanuts as there's no money in Belgian football, and Simpson and King both took substantial paycuts to be here. Baker was a sensible re-signing on a pay-as-you-play deal and Weimann, who also took a paycut, is our top goalscorer with 6 in 16 which is a decent return. 

wtf, a signing is a signing regardless of wage, we still pay them! sorry for your lack of understanding.

bottom line is they are his signings and the majority ain’t good enough or should have to ben relied on yet

[Alessandro]

52 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

A post hard to argue with - we do seem to be an endless cycle of “feast and famine” during SL’s ownership =  Relative progress when he and we are able (FFP) to invest money in the project and big steps backwards when the club has to regroup and save as we recover from a mess often of his making.

The only point I’d argue is the use of spending figures out of context to those clubs around us. I caveat the following by saying and I do believe the reality is mistakes been made and could the money have been better spent at times, 110% yes.

But quoting £100m out of context I don’t agree with as in that period we have had teams around us making our spending look like pocket money.

Year on year under SL, despite him spending those aforementioned millions, our wage bill and our net transfer spend has never, if ever been much above mid table in the championship. 

So for me it’s not a simple, ‘we’ve underachieved when you look at what we spend’ because IMO that isn’t necessarily the case.

When you realise that and where we sit financially in the football pyramid as a club (and I’m not talking personal wealth of owner) - that is where the core of the debate is for me and where we need to look to move forwards as a club.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[steviestevieneville]

22 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Good post 

A couple of wins and everyone is happy again 

Ridiculous on here sometimes but it’s a forum and entertaining 

I haven’t been happy with how Lansdown has ran the football side of the club for years tbh . 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

But quoting £100m out of context I don’t agree with as in that period we have had teams around us making our spending look like pocket money.

Year on year under SL, despite him spending those aforementioned millions, our wage bill and our net transfer spend has never, if ever been much above mid table in the championship. 

So for me it’s not a simple, ‘we’ve underachieved when you look at what we spend’ because IMO that isn’t necessarily the case.

When you realise that and where we sit financially in the football pyramid as a club (and I’m not talking personal wealth of owner) - that is where the core of the debate is for me and where we need to look to move forwards as a club.

A fair point. However, I would counter it by saying there are also a lot of similar sized and indeed smaller clubs than us, that have made it to the Premier League and/or achieved more success than us. There are even some that started below us in the pyramid, like Brighton and Swansea, who sailed past us with ease. Neither had financial backing on the level of SL. And of course we can complain about the Championship not being a level playing field (what division is to be fair) but there is a solution to that - win promotion to the Premier League and take advantage of those parachute payments if you get relegated, as others do. We've had the opportunity and potential to try it, but have never fully committed in my eyes. 

[BCFC Grim]

27 minutes ago, harrys said:

Can’t believe that people are having a pop at him, he’s thrown 10’s of millions at this club, maybe people would be happy with a foreign owner or the local guy who owns the local furnishing shop, of course some of his managerial appointments have been poor, (some of the better known posters on here were having a right pop at him when he appointed Cotterell, you know who you are) Holden was a shocker and this guy we have now is a disaster particularly when Cooper and Martin were available, unfortunately he bowed to fan pressure

Hes thrown 10s of millions? Do you mean to bail us out? Because that is simply down to his own mis management. He simply hasn't a clue when it comes to running a football club. Look at his appointments. Do you mean Cotterill? Common knowledge says that wasn't even his choice.And look how that pre season went. A complete shitstorm when we had the chance to really progress. He's built a legacy here and it isnt on the pitch. Bristol sport has become his priority and when he does finally go he won't be going empty handed thats for sure. Don't get me started on the smaller clubs that have just completely bypassed us by in recent years.

Let me ask anyone who believes under him we can make the next level......whats more likely in the coming couple of years? Relegation or promotion?

It seems some people are finally waking up.....

[AshtonGreat]

37 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

SL has undoubtedly had the best interests of the club at heart during his time here (IMO). He's done some great work off the pitch with the stadium and training ground. On the pitch....not so much success.

I think some fans are overly negative about the possible alternatives to Lansdown though. Perhaps we would be stuck in League 1 - or perhaps we'd have spent over half a decade in the Premier League and won a domestic cup (as other clubs our size and smaller have done).

 

Might as well have been training on the local park, the good that training ground has done

[Rossi the Robin]

9 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I haven’t been happy with how Lansdown has ran the football side of the club for years tbh . 

Fair enough mate, I respect that, but a few wins and these types of posts disappear until another bad run 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Yeah. I’m a bit more than disappointed too. But i was trying to take the right tone. The lunatics can shout into their keyboards the rest of us like yourself need to keep our heads.
 

But to be clear we are awful. :laugh:! 

Nobody’s shout into their keyboards no more than you . We’re expressing a opinion that SL has been a failure in a football perspective. I’ve said it for years. We’ll never see prem football at Ashton gate as long as Lansdown is at the helm. 

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. However, I would counter it by saying there are also a lot of similar sized and indeed smaller clubs than us, that have made it to the Premier League and/or achieved more success than us. There are even some that started below us in the pyramid, like Brighton and Swansea, who sailed past us with ease. Neither had financial backing on the level of SL. And of course we can complain about the Championship not being a level playing field (what division is to be fair) but there is a solution to that - win promotion to the Premier League and take advantage of those parachute payments if you get relegated, as others do. We've had the opportunity and potential to try it, but have never fully committed in my eyes. 

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[steviestevieneville]

32 minutes ago, frenchred said:

wtf, a signing is a signing regardless of wage, we still pay them! sorry for your lack of understanding.

bottom line is they are his signings and the majority ain’t good enough or should have to ben relied on yet

Which Pearson’s signings aren’t good enough apart from simpson , although he can still do a job & Tanner learning on the job but has plenty of potential . This is the type of player we need to be signing . He also had to bring in some experience. The players he’s inherited are the problem

[RedRock]

Still back SL to get it right eventually, and NP to get the train back on the rails - more likely in a role of Director of Football than manager one suspects, unless he can recruit one top quality coach to work under him pretty sharpish.

We’re are beyond awful though. We have 4-6 players who are ok, the rest are pretty rubbish frankly.

Any of those half dozen get injured - as some regularly do - and we end up with a side looking worse than a low division Downs League team.  

[RedHienz]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

So , are you making a rallying call to the man , whose ineptitude as a owner has put us in the mess we’re in ? A man who twice employed a bloke who completely ****** up our recruitment. Yes , not once but twice he’s employed him. A man who saw fit to not question some of the terrible illogical signings over the last 4 years . Not questioned any of it . 
Oh , sorry he built a couple of stands it’s all good , silly me.

Bore off.

Show me a club owner that hasn't messed up, there is no magical formula and many many mitigating factors.

Weak squad not really a huge mess, but 2 windows away from what we need.

The guy has single handedly saved this club from an even bigger mess, also known as insolvency. 

But hey f××k it lets try and do a Derby hey! All aboard the the no FFP bus!

Im sure SL regrets pissing in your cornflakes.

[steviestevieneville]

6 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Nobody’s shout into their keyboards no more than you . We’re expressing a opinion that SL has been a failure in a football perspective. I’ve said it for years. We’ll never see prem football at Ashton gate as long as Lansdown is at the helm. 

@REDOXOtwice now you’ve put a laughing emoji under my posts . That’s fine , but if you really had a counter argument you’d post it. Says it all really. 

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, RedHienz said:

Bore off.

Show me a club owner that hasn't messed up, there is no magical formula and many many mitigating factors.

Weak squad not really a huge mess, but 2 windows away from what we need.

The guy has single handedly saved this club from an even bigger mess, also known as insolvency. 

But hey f××k it lets try and do a Derby hey! All aboard the the no FFP bus!

Im sure SL regrets pissing in your cornflakes.

Ooh bore off your post is a complete load of bollocks . Where has this insolvency crap come from . Would that be the £50m of debt after the play off final defeat. Now who was in charge then that racked up a eye watering wage bill on shit over the hill players that resulted in relegation ? Oh yes Stephen Lansdown . You admit we got a weak squad . Crap players on big wages. Who agreed to the signings of these players . Oh yes Stephan Lansdown . There’s never been a clear football plan how to go about promotion of just getting better consistently . 

if anything he’s wasted his own money thinking he knows about the game . Appointing people like tinnion & Kieth millen , mciines, LJ as managers . If he’d appointed a proper director of football to make the football decisions we wouldn’t be in this mess . But no, he appoints a wannabe in mark ashton not once but twice . Mistake after mistake. So stop talking complete & utter drivel 

[Supersonic Robin]

6 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

[steviestevieneville]

11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Still back SL to get it right eventually, and NP to get the train back on the rails - more likely in a role of Director of Football than manager one suspects, unless he can recruit one top quality coach to work under him pretty sharpish.

We’re are beyond awful though. We have 4-6 players who are ok, the rest are pretty rubbish frankly.

Any of those half dozen get injured - as some regularly do - and we end up with a side looking worse than a low division Downs League team.  

He’s been in charge 20 years . Fans immediately want to point the finger at the manager & it’s lazy. There’s nothing wrong with questioning SL’s decisions 

[Kid in the Riot]

12 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I hear what you're saying about mid-table budget. Under LJ we were about 14th/15th highest in terms of wages. Which is why I consistently made the point at the time, that his top half finish (11th?) and 8th placed finish were decent, all considered. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

In a financial stability sense not many , if any . However in a footballing sense . They’ve all been prem clubs recently except cov 

[Peter1450]

2 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

I can’t imagine any of the above would want to swap with anything we have, at least they’ve experienced the highs which is more than can be said at Ashton Gate,to use someone’s user name on here…….Where is the Joy?

[Alessandro]

25 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[RedHienz]

35 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ooh bore off your post is a complete load of bollocks . Where has this insolvency crap come from . Would that be the £50m of debt after the play off final defeat. Now who was in charge then that racked up a eye watering wage bill on shit over the hill players that resulted in relegation ? Oh yes Stephen Lansdown . You admit we got a weak squad . Crap players on big wages. Who agreed to the signings of these players . Oh yes Stephan Lansdown . There’s never been a clear football plan how to go about promotion of just getting better consistently . 

if anything he’s wasted his own money thinking he knows about the game . Appointing people like tinnion & Kieth millen , mciines, LJ as managers . If he’d appointed a proper director of football to make the football decisions we wouldn’t be in this mess . But no, he appoints a wannabe in mark ashton not once but twice . Mistake after mistake. So stop talking complete & utter drivel 

So are you SL in or SL out? Dont hold back. 

Ill be leaving speaking bollocks to you chap, seem to be nailing it.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by RedHienz

[frenchred]

47 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Which Pearson’s signings aren’t good enough apart from simpson , although he can still do a job & Tanner learning on the job but has plenty of potential . This is the type of player we need to be signing . He also had to bring in some experience. The players he’s inherited are the problem

simpson ain’t good enough, king ain’t good enough, tanner and atkinson shouldn’t have to be relied on straight away when they were bought “for the future”

if you think simpson “can still do a job” i’m afraid your mistake 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Not sure that’s fair. I referred to the aggressive thread that already exists which in of itself shows I’m not speaking on behalf of everyone. I guess you (plural) read into things what you will and judging by the likes etc I am obviously expressing thoughts agreed by some/ many!

At this moment in time I would hazard a guess it's more some than many, there are a lot of posters that don't criticise because of the stick they receive whereas supportive posts tend to attract likes because most of us on here ultimately want the club to succeed, but even the most rose tinted have to accept a lot of things have gone badly wrong over the last few years and not a lot has gone right criticism is only to be expected. 

[lenred]

41 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

Said it before numerous times. Give me their journey over ours any time of day or night! Imagine the memories they’ve had over the time SL has been in charge.  Maybe Cov’s good times were slightly before but still. Would take any of their recent (25 year) history over ours. 

[lenred]

18 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

Yep most definitely.  Hull had the highs of going up and although they went down to L1 came back up and are now our level now. Other than Cardiff’s red shirt saga I’d take their recent history over ours as well. Can’t see why anyone wouldn’t objectively.  No lower than us and plenty higher over recent years. Cup finals etc.  

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

[Alessandro]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

I didn't say any Cardiff fan would swap with us, of course not!

I just mean't, in our position, at what cost would you have a few seasons of success? In reference to Hull's ongoing struggles and seemingly Cardiff's increasing issues on and off the pitch.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[Red Exile]

57 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

My in-laws are Hull fans. They've seen some of the greatest moments in their club's history in the years we've been failing to get back to the Championship play-offs. I take your point but in all honesty I can't imagine they'd swap that for what we've been watching.

[Red0499]

What I really struggle with is the feeling that as fans we have been hard done by or missed out on something we were entitled to.

Maybe if you look at amount invested v. on field success then the club has underachieved under current ownership. I really have no idea if that is the case. 

But even if true that is really not that relevant to me. It is only relevant to me if you assume that any other owner would have invested the same or more. 

Not sure when SL became owner? 2002? Out of the clubs around us then sure some have had more success (Brighton, Brentford, Cardiff etc) but equally others have faired a lot worse (Notts County, Wrexham, Bury). You can argue it whichever way you want. 

 

[TedsHeadIs Red]

My top suggestion for SL is to rename the High Performance Centre to something less laughable.