Massengo

[Jimbo76]

Might just be me, but I watched Massengo a lot today and he didn't seem as up for it as he was a few weeks ago. I've thought it for the last few games. Seemed to be behind the pace off the game and I didn't see him battling as before.

We never know about things like niggling injuries but I just wonder whether he has had enough.

Not sure I could blame him. When he came here, he was being hailed as a great new talent, playing champions League football and coming to this great aspirational club with a new stadium that was going to get promoted to the premier League.

Obviously the reality must seem very different now and, given that he revealed interest in him over the summer, I wonder if his mind is elsewhere now.

He would be one of the few players we could get a decent fee for in January.

[Pezo]

There is definitely something that ain’t tip top about him. I think the lack of goals and assists must really play on his mind (I know it plays on mine).

We know he can be quality on his day but like a few members of the squad he is misfiring and he needs to find some form or he will be dropped when others return (which he probably will be anyway).

[ralphindevon]

I thought he put in a good shift, covered a lot of ground and completed a lot of passes.

Also 2 attempts on target, that goal is getting closer……….hopefully!

Crikey! He’s had a few threads on there now.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Yes felt past couple of games he has been anonymous. And today did some nice stuff. But did not quite seem really up for it. Mind with his in doubted talent and the lack of progress with the team I think outside interest is no doubt a big distraction. I would be surprised to see him with city in a years time 

[AshtonRobin21]

Faced a tough task today, up against O'Brien (Huddersfield's number 8), who I felt controlled large portions of the game. 

Massengo covered a lot of ground, and had some shots on target, but struggled to get a foothold on the game. It certainly didn't seem as though he had possession of the ball much today. 

My opinion is that Massengo and James are complete opposites and probably don't compliment eachother all that well due to James not being as mobile. This can often lead to Massengo having to compensate for some of James' running, which can drag Massengo out of position.

I feel Massengo and James could work better if part of a midfield 3, which would allow another 'runner' to play alongside HNM, and allow Matty James to 'Anchor' the midfield and dictate the play. 

[HappyClapper]

10 hours ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Faced a tough task today, up against O'Brien (Huddersfield's number 8), who I felt controlled large portions of the game. 

Massengo covered a lot of ground, and had some shots on target, but struggled to get a foothold on the game. It certainly didn't seem as though he had possession of the ball much today. 

My opinion is that Massengo and James are complete opposites and probably don't compliment eachother all that well due to James not being as mobile. This can often lead to Massengo having to compensate for some of James' running, which can drag Massengo out of position.

I feel Massengo and James could work better if part of a midfield 3, which would allow another 'runner' to play alongside HNM, and allow Matty James to 'Anchor' the midfield and dictate the play. 

Like Joe Williams??

[GrahamC]

Thought he struggled yesterday & when we went 3-1 down Pearson signalled to Bakinson & Wells to get stripped off, I expected Tyreeq to replace him but despite getting what seemed like lengthy instructions he never ended up coming on at all.

Not one of his better days, the ball ran away from him on a couple of occasions.

[AshtonRobin21]

1 hour ago, HappyClapper said:

Like Joe Williams??

Exactly! Williams is who I was alluding to, however getting him fit is the main issue. 

[Simon bristol]

51 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Exactly! Williams is who I was alluding to, however getting him fit is the main issue. 

He is, or should be a key player for us… we may as well give up on him now, 18 months of basically not playing means realistically hes taking up a wage and theres no way we can plan for him to be involved.

[KegCity]

Thought he was just quiet. Did his usual job of breaking up play and trying to set the tempo but couldn’t get anything going.

[JoeAman08]

12 hours ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Faced a tough task today, up against O'Brien (Huddersfield's number 8), who I felt controlled large portions of the game. 

Massengo covered a lot of ground, and had some shots on target, but struggled to get a foothold on the game. It certainly didn't seem as though he had possession of the ball much today. 

My opinion is that Massengo and James are complete opposites and probably don't compliment eachother all that well due to James not being as mobile. This can often lead to Massengo having to compensate for some of James' running, which can drag Massengo out of position.

I feel Massengo and James could work better if part of a midfield 3, which would allow another 'runner' to play alongside HNM, and allow Matty James to 'Anchor' the midfield and dictate the play. 

Correct on the James thing. He is an ok player but playing him in a 2 in borderline suicide. Especially as we seem to be asking them to get forward at times. You could call yesterday a 3 but for me Weimann was more a rw than a cm imo. 
 

That said, pretty much all our cms would be exposed in a 2. Massengo could do it but lacks discipline wanting to chase things. Williams can do it but asks a lot from a guy who can only play 2-3 games before out a month. James doesn't have the legs for it. Bakinson too disciplined at times(being nice) and won’t risk trying to tackle or win a 50/50. King think could give you a decent 30 min of it but not a long term answer. Be a tough ask for AS and AB at this stage of their careers as well

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Faced a tough task today, up against O'Brien (Huddersfield's number 8), who I felt controlled large portions of the game. 

Massengo covered a lot of ground, and had some shots on target, but struggled to get a foothold on the game. It certainly didn't seem as though he had possession of the ball much today. 

My opinion is that Massengo and James are complete opposites and probably don't compliment eachother all that well due to James not being as mobile. This can often lead to Massengo having to compensate for some of James' running, which can drag Massengo out of position.

I feel Massengo and James could work better if part of a midfield 3, which would allow another 'runner' to play alongside HNM, and allow Matty James to 'Anchor' the midfield and dictate the play. 

To be fair Weimann played much more like the third midfielder today than as a 10.  It was pretty standard to see Massengo left of James, Weimann right of him.  For me, the biggest problem is our CBs let forwards go deep without tracking them, so that they create numerical advantage.

Massengo had a tidy game yesterday, nothing spectacular but okay.

[Unan]

I still think he’s better a bit further forward

[Rossi the Robin]

He’s not defensively great, positioning is poor - this is probably down to his enthusiasm and inexperience

There is a top player in there somewhere but I’d probably say he would benefit massively playing in a decent team with better players around him

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

To be fair Weimann played much more like the third midfielder today than as a 10.  It was pretty standard to see Massengo left of James, Weimann right of him.  For me, the biggest problem is our CBs let forwards go deep without tracking them, so that they create numerical advantage.

Massengo had a tidy game yesterday, nothing spectacular but okay.

I actually think the complete opposite Dave. 
I think our CB’s come way too high tracking the strikers. 
So many of our goals against or chances against seem to stem from one of the CB’s chasing a striker deep into their own half, sometimes 10-15 yards into their own half. 
With the 2 young wingbacks always looking to play high, the fact the 2 outside CB’s keep chasing upfield just leaves acres in behind. 
The midfield aren’t blameless though. The level of awareness of danger yesterday was awful and the desire to run back to cover and fill was non existent. 
 

Some pics. 
Pic 1 is the penalty incident. Atkinson has chased into the other half and left a huge hole. James should’ve seen this and covered earlier but he didn’t actually start running until the Hudds player was already running past him and into the hole. 
Pic 2 is their 1st goal. Vyner has chased his man deep into the opposition half allowing huge space in behind him. 
Pic 3 is their 2nd goal. Atkinson is intent on chasing the man going deep, allowing a simple ball over his head into the huge space he’s vacated. 
Pic 4 is their 3rd goal. Atkinson again has attempted to press inside the opposition half, whilst Vyner for some reason is high and beyond the striker - the striker who actually scored because Vyner can’t get back and goal side of him quick enough due to this poor starting position. 
 

This 3 CB system is failing. Teams are easily able to bring a striker deep, knowing we’ll press high and then drop easy balls over the top to the onrushing winger or full back. I’d much rather the 3 Cb’s just held their line and allow the midfield to do the closing down in and around the halfway. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Correct on the James thing. He is an ok player but playing him in a 2 in borderline suicide. Especially as we seem to be asking them to get forward at times. You could call yesterday a 3 but for me Weimann was more a rw than a cm imo. 
 

That said, pretty much all our cms would be exposed in a 2. Massengo could do it but lacks discipline wanting to chase things. Williams can do it but asks a lot from a guy who can only play 2-3 games before out a month. James doesn't have the legs for it. Bakinson too disciplined at times(being nice) and won’t risk trying to tackle or win a 50/50. King think could give you a decent 30 min of it but not a long term answer. Be a tough ask for AS and AB at this stage of their careers as well

Generally a CM 2 will only take sides so far at decent levels IMO. That's a different debate though.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

I actually think the complete opposite Dave. 
I think our CB’s come way too high tracking the strikers. 
So many of our goals against or chances against seem to stem from one of the CB’s chasing a striker deep into their own half, sometimes 10-15 yards into their own half. 
With the 2 young wingbacks always looking to play high, the fact the 2 outside CB’s keep chasing upfield just leaves acres in behind. 
The midfield aren’t blameless though. The level of awareness of danger yesterday was awful and the desire to run back to cover and fill was non existent. 
 

Some pics. 
Pic 1 is the penalty incident. Atkinson has chased into the other half and left a huge hole. James should’ve seen this and covered earlier but he didn’t actually start running until the Hudds player was already running past him and into the hole.

but that’s what the WB/Back 3 system allows you to do…CBs can track strikers, because Kalas - the self proclaimed “cover” can position himself to cover Atkinson.  Where the **** is he in this picture?  Okay, he might just be out of picture, but I think he doesn’t cover his CBs very well at times.
Pic 2 is their 1st goal. Vyner has chased his man deep into the opposition half allowing huge space in behind him.

without seeing the rest of the defence it’s difficult to know whether that’s right or wrong.  The whole point of a back 3 is to allow CBs to track their forwards.  Our problems of “no marking” occur more with possession deep in our half.  Again if the ball is clipped over Vyner, he either turns and it becomes a foot-race, or Kalas sweeps up.  I’d be more upset if Vyner stands on the h-w line and let’s his man get an easy pass into feet!
Pic 3 is their 2nd goal. Atkinson is intent on chasing the man going deep, allowing a simple ball over his head into the huge space he’s vacated.

I’m actually shouting for Benarous to not chase the ball.  Atkinson has indeed got caught in no-man’s land.  Poor from Ayman, Rob and whoever the 3rd player is.
Pic 4 is their 3rd goal. Atkinson again has attempted to press inside the opposition half, whilst Vyner for some reason is high and beyond the striker - the striker who actually scored because Vyner can’t get back and goal side of him quick enough due to this poor starting position.

now, there lies the problem….do the effing hard yards as early as possible.  Can’t recall what happened exactly before that, but as a back 3 that is all wrong.
 

This 3 CB system is failing.

Agreed.

Teams are easily able to bring a striker deep, knowing we’ll press high and then drop easy balls over the top to the onrushing winger or full back.

Every system has its weaknesses!

I’d much rather the 3 Cb’s just held their line and allow the midfield to do the closing down in and around the halfway.

That is what has happened and resulted in the midfield being out on their arse after 60-65 minutes…and then we get deeper and deeper.

Comments above.

FWIW I’m not just on about the goals, I could show several stills where all three aren’t marking anyone, and the midfield and WBs are 5v7 and doing doggies chasing the ball.

I think we’d be better as a back 4 - Vyner or Tanner | Kalas | Atkinson | Pring…..you can play the 6 in front of them however you want.  I said weeks ago I see James playing as a true DM at some point, so we become a 41xx, which is not dissimilar to how we played with Pack.

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Comments above.

FWIW I’m not just on about the goals, I could show several stills where all three aren’t marking anyone, and the midfield and WBs are 5v7 and doing doggies chasing the ball.

I think we’d be better as a back 4 - Vyner or Tanner | Kalas | Atkinson | Pring…..you can play the 6 in front of them however you want.  I said weeks ago I see James playing as a true DM at some point, so we become a 41xx, which is not dissimilar to how we played with Pack.

Re your embedded comments. Yes, I agree to an extent that the 3 CB system should allow the wider CB’s to mark the strikers, but I don’t want them running 10 yards into the opposition half to track them. 
Re your other comment, yes, I’d love to see a true DM holding fort. We are wide wide wide open down the middle - something that never happened when Pack played. 

[JoeAman08]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Generally a CM 2 will only take sides so far at decent levels IMO. That's a different debate though.

I think that is very true just think it is highlighted even more by who we are trying to play in there. Injuries probably not helped this but we had Bakinson on the bench and Scott/Benarous at wingbacks who can both play in there and help out. Think we should have 3 in there at all times but for me that means dropping Weimann or Martin. Something he hasn’t done all season. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think that is very true just think it is highlighted even more by who we are trying to play in there. Injuries probably not helped this but we had Bakinson on the bench and Scott/Benarous at wingbacks who can both play in there and help out. Think we should have 3 in there at all times but for me that means dropping Weimann or Martin. Something he hasn’t done all season. 

Not Weimann IMO, but Martin- he is good but do wonder if he is being overplayed- easy to say with hindsight of course but two goals for Weimann, he is our top scorer and think he has certain attributes.

Was certainly bold to play Scott and Benarous at WB!

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not Weimann IMO, but Martin- he is good but do wonder if he is being overplayed- easy to say with hindsight of course but two goals for Weimann, he is our top scorer and think he has certain attributes.

Was certainly bold to play Scott and Benarous at WB!

I think it would be Martin if I had to choose. Semenyo can play that role just fine. Probably will lack in some regards to Martin but I think more than makes up for it with the athleticism. Like to see Scott central a lot more too. Think quite clear NP doesn’t trust anyone to play lb so think maybe stuck with 3 atb

[mozo]

I think he's a confidence player. We've seen him have streaks of form where he tackles and dribbles and looks like the engine in the midfield. Other spells he has gone off the boil and all you get is closing down and simple passes.

We need super-Han back.

Edited December 21, 2021 by mozo

[Ivorguy]

20 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think it would be Martin if I had to choose. Semenyo can play that role just fine. Probably will lack in some regards to Martin but I think more than makes up for it with the athleticism. Like to see Scott central a lot more too. Think quite clear NP doesn’t trust anyone to play lb so think maybe stuck with 3 atb

Moving deckchairs on The Titanic?