Ben Foster on Nigel Pearson

[iamalagerdrinker]

On 22/12/2021 at 14:56, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

I see the episode goes on for almost two hours.

Is there anybody who has watched, who is able to indicate, approximately, where Ben Foster appears talking about NP?

Thanks in advance.

Not sure if covered but it’s literally the first story.. About 8 minutes or so rings a bell 

[Andy082005]

On 22/12/2021 at 13:23, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I’ve got to say I didn’t see many ‘work dodgers’ under Dean Holden.  What I saw was a side pretty much doing their best in the face of the worst injury crisis in living memory (and I still think that if Tommy Rowe had not got injured when he did, the season might have turned out quite differently).  The only time I saw players looking less than fully committed last season was after Holden was sacked, though morale was clearly rock bottom in Holden’s last few games.

It’s all very well creating an an environment where there’s nowhere to hide, but he has to get the players on side or we will be in trouble.  The squad is what it is and Pearson has to get the best out of it.  He certainly isn’t doing that at the moment.

Really? I thought it looked like it was rife 

They all wanted ‘Deano’ to get the job so they could simply keep rising the gravy train 

They got away with murder for to long under both LJ and Holden 

[bcfcredandwhite]

On 22/12/2021 at 21:58, ScottishRed said:

We lack ‘ strong characters and leaders at the club’ - absolutely. And the reason for that is those are not qualities that MA and LJ wanted.

Ultimately, they both knew that characters of that nature would, in the end, expose them, and that was not a risk they were prepared to take.

 

This might be true of MA but I don’t believe it at all re: LJ. 
LJ had his influential players sold from under him and that’s contributed to why we lost direction and stagnated. 
if he hated influential players that much he wouldn’t have made them team captains just before getting rid of them (Pack, Brownhill)

[Pezo]

6 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

This might be true of MA but I don’t believe it at all re: LJ. 
LJ had his influential players sold from under him and that’s contributed to why we lost direction and stagnated. 
if he hated influential players that much he wouldn’t have made them team captains just before getting rid of them (Pack, Brownhill)

I think a lot of people think that LJ was in charge with MA but those in the know have clearly spelt out otherwise.

There is a hierarchy of positions in football:

CEO

DoF

Manager

Coach

From what I have seen LJ focused on the coaching and probably stretched 50% in the manager role. This meant MA did the CEO self appointed himself DoF and did the other 50% of the management.

The entire financial side of the club was run by MA and LJ was consulted (in the same way I'm consulted when my manager says we're doing something).

There wasn't much wrong with our coaching when you look at what's happened since he left but our finances are a mess by the sounds of things and I don't really know how much involvement LJ had in that, if you want to know where problems lie follow the money.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I think a lot of people think that LJ was in charge with MA but those in the know have clearly spelt out otherwise.

There is a hierarchy of positions in football:

CEO

DoF

Manager

Coach

From what I have seen LJ focused on the coaching and probably stretched 50% in the manager role. This meant MA did the CEO self appointed himself DoF and did the other 50% of the management.

The entire financial side of the club was run by MA and LJ was consulted (in the same way I'm consulted when my manager says we're doing something).

There wasn't much wrong with our coaching when you look at what's happened since he left but our finances are a mess by the sounds of things and I don't really know how much involvement LJ had in that, if you want to know where problems lie follow the money.

Don’t forget LJ brought in Macca (from Academy into First Team) so that he could spend less time out on the training pitch and more time on recruitment.  That is often forgotten.

My view is that both LJ and MA pushed the finances as far as they could.  That is supported by some things I’ve heard, inc comments like “if I had a decent budget I’d piss this league”.  He had a decent budget in fairness!

We pretty much finished in league positions fairly in line with budgets (11th, 8th, 12th)…I totally accept we never had a top 6 budget (PPs put paid for that), but I’d question whether we really over-achieved from 17/18 to 19/20.  I often thought play-off challenges were possible because some of the PP clubs were “basket cases” or completely unprepared for life back in the Champ.

The worsening of 8th to 12th in his final season were the first outward signs (on the pitch) of a downward trend versus money spent, plus an erratic window too.

Totally agree that Ashton assumed the roles of DOF and HOR.  I think Richard Latham’s point on FBC pod was relevant that HOR needs to find players that the manager (head coach) wants, and I think that’s really where Ashton was too involved.  And I think Johnson got carried away, they both got carried away.

I do wonder whether LJ would’ve been satisfied with paying one fee in the summer of 2020 (Williams), having to sell Eliason and not being able to reinvest any of it, and then this summer being told to lose 10 players, cut the wage bill by 1/3rd, etc.

I also question my thoughts re this time with - but we found ourselves in / around the top six quite often during his time…only to fall away.

I usually resort to - the league is 46 games long

And then ponder - what would people have thought of Johnson had we been 14th to 16th each season, but a late run found us just in the top half (instead of the way round he did it)

Ah well, Boxing Day musings with no football.  

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

That our future will need an academy producing a very large proportion of the first team squad . It is our only hope in the new reality . But that needs patience . 
 

LJ and Ashton are gone , their poor decisions we will pay for still over the next 18 months . But , and a positive but , if that means Ayman B , Alex S , Antoine S and HNM develop at pace , well those 4 will be like 10 m signings next season .and beyond, 

Yep, wages typically cheaper too….

Still to be proven, but I hope the signings of James and King (you can add Weimann, Baker and Simpson re-signs) are less and less frequent going forward…they are there to set the standards and in 6, 12, 18 months there job should be done.

If you couple the 4 you mention with Atkinson moving into prime years, Williams too (if we can keep him fit), plus Tanner developing further too, we have a core to move forward.  Whether the likes of Bentley, Kalas and O’Dowda become the experienced pros or move on we will have to wait and see.

Assuming this season ends ok, next season will be key to move forwards quickly to keep the likes of Alex Scott here.

[1960maaan]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I would prefer SL invest non FFP money on a cat 1 academy so we play the best youth and increase scope of recruitment and coaching

What do we need for Cat 1 ?
Is it as simple as a full size indoor grass pitch, or is there more to it ?

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Whether the likes of Bentley, Kalas and O’Dowda become the experienced pros or move on we will have to wait and see.

As a foil for a younger based squad, I'm not convinced. I'd love the be proved wrong, but I think we could do with a more vocal player or two, to bind the squad. 
I do think we will see players staying with current clubs longer over the next few years, less buying power means less options to move. Will be interesting to see what happens in this and the summer window. 

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

What do we need for Cat 1 ?
Is it as simple as a full size indoor grass pitch, or is there more to it ?

As a foil for a younger based squad, I'm not convinced. I'd love the be proved wrong, but I think we could do with a more vocal player or two, to bind the squad. 
I do think we will see players staying with current clubs longer over the next few years, less buying power means less options to move. Will be interesting to see what happens in this and the summer window. 

Age doesn’t necessarily equal vocal.  

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Age doesn’t necessarily equal vocal.  

Very true, and I did notice that Pearson said that Towler was much more vocal since he's come back. We do need everyone to help with the problem. Leading by example is fine, but you can't see everything and communication is key.

[zippycar]

Interesting comments in the Matt Mills podcast about “our Joey” at around 40 minutes onwards regarding Ishmael Miller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9-0kbc_X1Y

Following a bust up between Barton and Miller, Barton comes running past Mills, cracks Ishmael (from behind) in back of the head, attacks him whilst on the floor, then runs off and gets in his car and f’s off!

Who would of thought that of Mr B and so out of character, as was no doubt alluded to during the recent trial.
 

[AshtonGreat]

On 22/12/2021 at 15:25, Davefevs said:

I think you’re failing to take into account the timeline and contract situation that evolved in the latter period of Holden / early period of Pearson.  It had a massive bearing.

And it depends what the person posting things like “work dodging” and “uncoachable” is really trying to imply, whether they are aiming at the players themselves or faults of the manager and his coaching staff.  Same with the use of “bullying” too!

I think it’s fair to say that Holden didn’t have to experience the full reality of a final 3 month period of the season where a CEO had promised the earth publicly and then pulled the rug from under the feet.  The downturn did start under Holden around the time / after the bollox spouted by Ashton v Norwich.

I’m being selective here, not for an agenda because I posted exactly this last January, that the contract situations needing sorting were drifting on and on and you could see it on the pitch.  We saw Ashton talk to Gregor, Geoff and the commentator Gary Weaver, and basically undermine everything.  Look at the results as the window approached, then the Huddersfield win (as the window was ending) we got absolutely battered.  The performances against Cardiff and Watford were abject…those were tell-tale signs the players were not putting effort in….under Holden.  But NOT Holden’s fault, just like the following 3 month’s of results WEREN’T Nige’s fault either. The rot was set by the CEO and Owner.  They stuffed up.  Fam laughed at accusations he’d been offered £30k p.w. by Ashton.  That tells you something for a player to go public.

Nige got a small bounce, that all bar mathematically ensured survival, but then the reality of players not getting contracts (coupled with injuries that Holden had to deal with too) meant we limped over the (safety) line.  It’s been a huge repair job.  I think that is underestimated on here.

The reason you didn’t hear uncoachable / downed tools comments under Holden was because many arent  perceptive enough to understand the external impacts that were going on.  Most were happy to blame “inexperienced Holden” rather than the players or understand why the players weren’t quite “at it” anymore….that’s why you didn’t hear it.  Ashton made Holden the scapegoat for his own incompetence.

I don’t blame the players, players like Tommy Rowe being rushed back from injury with the knowledge he isn’t gonna get a new contract.  Lansbury, signed on the cheap to try and get himself a new, better deal in the summer, suddenly finds there’s no money to match his expectations now the bullshitting CEO is gone and the reality of City’s financial position is honestly relayed to him.  Hey, Henri, come here on £8k p.w*** with your pay-off from Villa, play well and we will double that in the summer.  Promises, promises!  Lies, lies!!

There are so many different dynamics going on, timing is everything, and very good reasons why different parties get flak at different times.

I fully expect Holden would’ve ended up with exactly the same issues as Nige had last season.  Would Dean be the right man for a post-Ashton re-build, I’m not so sure!

 

*** for example purposes only.

Did he ever play particularly well, though?