Supporters Trust Survey

[tompo]

The ST survey is being rolled out to members. It's going out in two stages and formats. There are electronic and hard copy versions.

Hard copies will be posted out during the next week to anyone who does not have an e-mail address or has not supplied one.

Any ST member who has supplied a valid e-mail address should have received the survey by now. However, it appears that a small number of e-mails have bounced back as being undeliverable.

If you are an ST member and have not received an e-mail about the fans survey please send an e-mail to Nick@bristolcityst.org.uk and I will send you the survey.

This will serve two purposes. Obviously we want as many members as possible to complete the survey but it will also enable us to bring our records up to date and improve communications to members.

Please note that I will not be able to reply to any e-mails until Monday and I will be going on holiday on Thursday afternoon.

The closing date for the survey is not until 20 October so there is plenty of time to complete it.

Finally, I would also like to thank everyone who has given some of their time and effort to help produce the survey. It's been a long time coming but we could not have done it without you.

[Flaxbourton Red]

Just received it, I thought it was really well done, hope it can make some difference.

[Guest]

Is this the same survey I have just completed from a link in the Subbers forum pressumme its open to all; if so why is there no link here

[EmersonsKev]

Is this the same survey I have just completed from a link in the Subbers forum pressumme its open to all; if so why is there no link here

Its open to Supporters Trust members only. That is the reason why you don't have a link.

[Guest]

Its open to Supporters Trust members only. That is the reason why you don't have a link.

Why is there a ST online survey on the subbers site then, or is that a completely different jobby

[EmersonsKev]

Why is there a ST online survey on the subbers site then, or is that a completely different jobby

As far as i understood it, the ST survey was to be sent to all members either by email or post. I haven't seen the link on subeers site but I'm not aware of a full survey. I will await Nick's response as much as yourself.

[cider head]

Why is there a ST online survey on the subbers site then, or is that a completely different jobby

the link was sent to me by email, i had no idea it was for members only and

if the supporters trust wish it removed i willl do so?

[Guest]

the link was sent to me by email, i had no idea it was for members only and

if the supporters trust wish it removed i willl do so?

OOps hope I aint put the cat amongst the pigeons cant see why all cant have a go anyway

[cider head]

OOps hope I aint put the cat amongst the pigeons cant see why all cant have a go anyway

link is now removed

[cider head]

tompo.

But with 300 members the survey is going to fall WELL short of the names hitting a petition,

IF JUST KEPT TO TRUST MEMBERS ONLY, IT'S DAFT..

we will hit 200+ names with just the trip to forest from just coaches.

I don't want to knock the trust as they are working along with fans on the EE

but a survey for just members and not the fan base as a whole is not going

to be productive.

to be honest i don't think a members only survey is a good idea at all,

it should be open to everyone and on that website link there should be a

box saying ''tick if you are a member or non member of the st'', it will

be perceived as a closed shop and you must join and spend money just to

get your voice heard.

With a open survey they can then have address that may not be on their

data base to send info on the trust on recivers permission (another box to tick)

they should be moving to win fans over to join and not alienate people (or give the impression)

by you can't take part unless you sign up, ok i offered to remove the link (and i've done this)

but it does come across as very pompus by not letting

ALL THE FANS AVIALABLE TO HAVE THEIR SAY,

it's not a dig just constructive advice because as i see it non members are happy to take part in this survey.

just a thought worth thinking about....

[tompo]

tompo.

But with 300 members the survey is going to fall WELL short of the names hitting a petition,

IF JUST KEPT TO TRUST MEMBERS ONLY, IT'S DAFT..

we will hit 200+ names with just the trip to forest from just coaches.

I don't want to knock the trust as they are working along with fans on the EE

but a survey for just members and not the fan base as a whole is not going

to be productive.

to be honest i don't think a members only survey is a good idea at all,

it should be open to everyone and on that website link there should be a

box saying ''tick if you are a member or non member of the st'', it will

be perceived as a closed shop and you must join and spend money just to

get your voice heard.

With a open survey they can then have address that may not be on their

data base to send info on the trust on recivers permission (another box to tick)

they should be moving to win fans over to join and not alienate people (or give the impression)

by you can't take part unless you sign up, ok i offered to remove the link (and i've done this)

but it does come across as very pompus by not letting

ALL THE FANS AVIALABLE TO HAVE THEIR SAY,

it's not a dig just constructive advice because as i see it non members are happy to take part in this survey.

just a thought worth thinking about....

The decision to survey just ST members was taken some time ago and has already been the subject of debate both on here and the subbers site so I won't go over old ground.

The thread below gives a fair insight in the background to the decision.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...mp;#entry594278

Surveying a small sample of the City fanbase is in line with the way the majority of surveys are carried out. The membership of the Trust covers a broad cross section of the City fan base and results should show little variation from those of a survey of the City fan base as a whole.

What you are suggesting is not a survey but a census and to accommodate everyone the majority of it would need to be done in a paper format.

[Guest]

The decision to survey just ST members was taken some time ago and has already been the subject of debate both on here and the subbers site so I won't go over old ground.

The thread below gives a fair insight in the background to the decision.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...mp;#entry594278

Surveying a small sample of the City fanbase is in line with the way the majority of surveys are carried out. The membership of the Trust covers a broad cross section of the City fan base and results should show little variation from those of a survey of the City fan base as a whole.

What you are suggesting is not a survey but a census and to accommodate everyone the majority of it would need to be done in a paper format.

Fair enough its your survey, I would just add a survey among subber forum members will be different to a ST members survey for instance and maybe a survey of this forums members may of given a more balanced view.

Still each to his own (choice that is)

[worthyred]

tompo.

But with 300 members the survey is going to fall WELL short of the names hitting a petition,

IF JUST KEPT TO TRUST MEMBERS ONLY, IT'S DAFT..

we will hit 200+ names with just the trip to forest from just coaches.

I don't want to knock the trust as they are working along with fans on the EE

but a survey for just members and not the fan base as a whole is not going

to be productive.

to be honest i don't think a members only survey is a good idea at all,

it should be open to everyone and on that website link there should be a

box saying ''tick if you are a member or non member of the st'', it will

be perceived as a closed shop and you must join and spend money just to

get your voice heard.

With a open survey they can then have address that may not be on their

data base to send info on the trust on recivers permission (another box to tick)

they should be moving to win fans over to join and not alienate people (or give the impression)

by you can't take part unless you sign up, ok i offered to remove the link (and i've done this)

but it does come across as very pompus by not letting

ALL THE FANS AVIALABLE TO HAVE THEIR SAY,

it's not a dig just constructive advice because as i see it non members are happy to take part in this survey.

just a thought worth thinking about....

Agreed, I think it will just add to a 'Them and us' feeling that already exists to a degree.

[tompo]

Fair enough its your survey, I would just add a survey among subber forum members will be different to a ST members survey for instance and maybe a survey of this forums members may of given a more balanced view.

Still each to his own (choice that is)

I think you would be wrong about a survey of this forum giving a more balanced view. A significant proportion of members of this forum are not City fans and there is the possibilty that were they to complete a survey it could seriously affect the results.

If you want proof that this happens cast your mind back to when they had the vote on "That" shirt.

[Barrs Court Red]

It makes sense that an organisation consults its members, rather than complicate a already akward process.

I don't think there is any sort of "Them and Us" situations, and those ITK should remember certain meetings planned for the very near future about a certain issue that is being looked into BECAUSE of fan interest, of which few are ST members.

[Nibor]

It makes sense that an organisation consults its members, rather than complicate a already akward process.

It also makes sense that an organisation hoping to significantly increase the number of members consult those whom it hopes to attract. All this means is giving them access to the same questionnaire - not any more complicated really.

[Barrs Court Red]

It also makes sense that an organisation hoping to significantly increase the number of members consult those whom it hopes to attract. All this means is giving them access to the same questionnaire - not any more complicated really.

What, by giving access exclusively to online City fans?

Sure, that's inclusive of all isn't it.

[Nibor]

What, by giving access exclusively to online City fans?

Sure, that's inclusive of all isn't it.

Hmm?

I said giving them access to it, I deliberately didn't say online. How are ST members who are not online getting it? How hard can it really be to hand copies to anyone interested at the ground?

There's very little more complicated about making it accessible to all and there's not that much useful about a survey that only covers a small and likely disproportionate group of the fan base.

[Barrs Court Red]

Hmm?

I said giving them access to it, I deliberately didn't say online. How are ST members who are not online getting it? How hard can it really be to hand copies to anyone interested at the ground?

There's very little more complicated about making it accessible to all and there's not that much useful about a survey that only covers a small and likely disproportionate group of the fan base.

I don't see how 300 members could be called disproportionate, care to clarify?

In a perfect world I'm sure every effort would be given to given all fans access, but where do you draw the line? Those at the ground only? Those that have stopped going? Someone who is a floating fan?

It is clear the more avenues made available to access increase the cost, and time needed to not only give out a questionnaire, but the time it will take to compile all the data into a overall total.

[Nibor]

I don't see how 300 members could be called disproportionate, care to clarify?

I expect that the Supporter's Trust membership is not a good demographic representation of city fans as a group. I think you'll find that despite there being members from all walks of life in the Trust, some of the biggest demographic groups will be under represented proportionally. This can seriously affect how closely the results mirror the reality.

Of course if you're only interested in Trust members' views then it will be fine - I'd argue that's not anywhere near as useful though.

In a perfect world I'm sure every effort would be given to given all fans access, but where do you draw the line? Those at the ground only? Those that have stopped going? Someone who is a floating fan?

Anyone who wants to fill it in and thinks of themselves as a city fan should be allowed to. The information on how often they attend and such would normally be one of the questions. It's reasonable to distribute them at the ground over a few weeks and provide and address where an SAE can get you a copy. This at least gives most people the opportunity.

It is clear the more avenues made available to access increase the cost, and time needed to not only give out a questionnaire, but the time it will take to compile all the data into a overall total.

If you're distributing them on paper then yes there's an extra (small) cost. Who'd baulk at making a 10p donation to the ST per copy?

The thing to bear in mind is that the usefulness of the results is proportional to the number of responses.

[SE23Red]

I don't see how 300 members could be called disproportionate, care to clarify?

In a perfect world I'm sure every effort would be given to given all fans access, but where do you draw the line? Those at the ground only? Those that have stopped going? Someone who is a floating fan?

It is clear the more avenues made available to access increase the cost, and time needed to not only give out a questionnaire, but the time it will take to compile all the data into a overall total.

No one can have a problem with any organisation polling it's members to establish what they consider to be priority issues. I'm sure this is what the ST intends to do with the results of this survey, set an agenda for the ST for the year/years ahead.

However if at any stage it is said to be representative of Bristol City fans as a whole rather than ST members then there is a problem. By the decision to join the Trust the sample immediately becomes disproportionate as they have all responded in the same way to the publicity of the objectives of the Trust when it was launched.

[tompo]

[redrocks]

A sample of 300 fans would be OK if you got them all to respond, but it would be interesting to see how many you actually get. The fact these people are actually motivated enough to join the ST, however, shows that they are not representative of the vast majority of fans who, so far, have chosen not to.

The fact that rival fans could sabotage the survey is a valid point, but, at the same time, the fact you are limiting it to 300 people who are obviously more motivated and proactive than others in certain areas means you are equally likely to get unrepresentative results.

Would it not be an option to use a service like freewebsurveys.com for non-members and compare the results? It would be interesting to see how they stack up and how many more responses you get so that more informed decisions can be made in the future.

[tompo]

[Milo]

Just to re-iterate a few points;

1/ A survey of Trust members will be representative of Trust members. While all Trust members are City fans it's never going to be as a comprehensive in getting fans' opinions as a census or a survey of City fans in general but it will be close.

2/ We plan to carry out a wider survey with the Club in the near future.

3/ Membership of the Trust is £1 a month and the member survey runs until 20th October. Anyone wishing to participate in the Trust's member survey can join up in the next week or so (see link to the application form at the foot of my post).

[CTID Ryback]

1/ A survey of Trust members will be representative of Trust members. While all Trust members are City fans it's never going to be as a comprehensive in getting fans' opinions as a census or a survey of City fans in general but it will be close.

Glad to see this being noted although I have to disagree that the results will be anywhere near close to that of a survey of all fans.

Still, good point Milo. As long as the results are presented as that of the ST members and not the fans I will be happy.

[screech]

Tompo, I suggest you find another printer if you have been quoted those prices.

[tompo]

Tompo, I suggest you find another printer if you have been quoted those prices.

Part of my job involves buying printing. The quote is a ball park figure but is very considerably less than I expected for an 8 page A4 document with colour to some pages and with a print run of 30,000.

I thought the cost would be nearer £3.75k. Shows how rubbish I am at my job but its all academic anyway.

[Nibor]

Part of my job involves buying printing. The quote is a ball park figure but is very considerably less than I expected for an 8 page A4 document with colour to some pages and with a print run of 30,000.

I thought the cost would be nearer £3.75k. Shows how rubbish I am at my job but its all academic anyway.

Although there might be 30,000 people in Bristol with a remote interest in BCFC, I suspect significantly less than a 10th of that number would be inclined to fill in a survey.

I appreciate that the ST are not polling non members because they're waiting for the club to remove it's finger from it's arse but when they finally do - why not start with 1,000 and print more if they're needed?

[redrocks]

Although there might be 30,000 people in Bristol with a remote interest in BCFC, I suspect significantly less than a 10th of that number would be inclined to fill in a survey.

I appreciate that the ST are not polling non members because they're waiting for the club to remove it's finger from it's arse but when they finally do - why not start with 1,000 and print more if they're needed?

I would be surprised if the cost for a print run of 1,000 were much less. The majority of the cost is tied up in the typesetting, etc. and not the actual cost of materials.