ray savino

That was so, so, so disappointing yesterday. And boring. Just when I think we’ve turned a corner. Yes, I should know better supporting this club for so many years now, but I always live in hope. That’s about all I can muster up to say to be honest.

Yep, I was there. We couldn’t stay on our feet if I remember correctly, WBA massive advantage with their cheating Astro Boots... oh and they were a bloody good team!

COYR Cheers us all up for Xmas!

It’s simple. love it or loathe it, the Board have made their choice. They will have to take the credit if it works. They will have to take the crap if it goes belly up. They alone own this situation, no pointing the fingers at others. The decision goes back to them. In between all of this we can only hope that their decision proves correct. I will back the team each game however angry I feel about the handling of this situation by the Board. What I don’t want is for us to now go back down to League One quickly after managing to survive a difficult period since Covid and the LJ/MA/Holden periods finished. So now the board have made the decision they must back LM in the transfer market (without being so reckless as in the MA/LJ era obviously) and equally LM will need to get some decent results on the scoreboard pronto to start giving the fans some optimism back. Yep, unfair on NP, would like to have seen him have some real backing, but he’s gone and ain’t coming back. The overall reality is that if he is to be successful he will need time. For me, achievable success should be aiming to be at least top ten by the end of this season and most importantly with a convincing, settled playing style maybe short of a few final parts of the jigsaw that we should be planning to be be recruited in the summer. This should be judged from the position the club was left in when he was recruited. This would have applied to NP for me this season if he would have been here. Realistically, I always thought that next season is when we could mount a proper challenge at the top with that bit of investment. Of course every season I hope we will go up, but felt next season we should be at least be a credible prospect for the promotion/play-off mix. Importantly LM has to at least start to show signs of progress by season ticket sales time, cos although us fans generally come back (despite how crap things can be) I would be shocked if sales don’t go downwards if we continue in the current vein of form. Yes, as people have pointed out, GJ lost 9 in a row, but turned things around by the end of the season and set us up to have a convincing go for promotion the next. LM needs precisely that by the end of this season, set us up for a good tilt at next seasons play-offs that we can all be convinced by and optimistic about again. Winning over the fans and giving them optimism is his biggest task at the minute (and a few good wins might just start that process - sorry did I just say process - blimey he must be having an influence already).

Forget MH’s son, I feel I’ve massively aged by the end of every City match!

Got to say that Dickie has looked a bargain at 700k? Need a few more in January. Think Mr Lansdown is going to have to let go of some of that Scott money this January.

Biggest disappointment for me is that we only started playing with any real intensity and bravery at 2-0 down. First half trying to keep possession we kept giving it away a passing back to Max to hoof aimlessly to give it away. We started playing at a tempo that gave Blackburn more problems once we had no choice to throw off the shackles and go for it. We then started to look good and looked like we might scrape the draw. I maintain if we want to play the patient build up stuff, all very well but we needed up the tempo and take some risks first half. Seriously need for at least a couple or three key/good recruits to bolster this team and getting our injured players back in January. Worry for me is that if we don’t get a couple of wins very soon we could easily get dragged into the bottom part of the table. Actually think we’ve got enough to keep clear, but we can’t carry on playing for parts of games. Losing by the odd goal and playing half decent is still losing whatever. Big, big performance and more importantly result needed against Sunderland (beat Leeds 1-0 tonight) to go into the Xmas period more confidence and take some pressure off the team and manager.

As much as I disagreed with the manner of the whole dismissal and recruitment handling of the management, I actually think that we can only truly judge any progress to measure at the end of the season. This isn’t a rebuild (yet), but it is a significant departure from where we were under NP. At the end of the season we can measure his appointment on firstly results, position in the league, then style of play, then potential recruitment, and perhaps then lastly outlook/potential for the next season. You could argue that we should be further down the road by now, but I’m trying to be somewhat realistic because his style will take time to become natural to the squad and we will need recruits as did NP. For me, realistic progress, to get excited about a real challenge next season, would be at least a top ten position, and a squad playing convincingly and more comfortably in the new style with perhaps space for some strengthening in say 3 or 4 key positions during the summer window. The caveat to all of this of course is if we start to nose dive down the table however unlucky results may be deemed to be. The pressure on Manning is to get some results soon to give him a bit of breathing space. And the remainder of this season should be ample enough to set up a platform for next season with most of thias squad. But he’s gotta have some decent investment to supplement his work without doubt and is obvious to all on here.

I put this on the “like going to work” thread the other day. Not trying to be indulgent but I feel it is more relevent to express my thoughts on this thread subject matter. We are, and it pains me to say it, historically a mediocre club with a record of never winning a major trophy (despite us occasionally singing over the years along with 91 other league clubs, “We’re the greatest football team the world has ever seen”). My dad got me hooked and now I’ve got my son hooked (he has never forgiven me!) so I can’t change my allegiance now. I’ve lived and worked around the country. We are no less committed or passionate as fans at the various clubs around the country. However I do believe that lack of success has somewhat developed a sort of resigned acceptance of that mediocrity. Almost a sense of realism and acceptance of our position. Yes, we all dream about winning the cup and prem football, and that’s the beauty of football, there’s always a dream. Making it a reality is another thing. This acceptance thing, slight lethargy if you like is one of the things that I really warmed to Pearson’s attitude at the club. He was prepared to tell us we were a strange sort of club, passive in lots of ways. He told us and mainly the owners a few honest, uncomfortable truths. It wasn’t meant to be an insult, but a call to change our mentality and culture. Okay we can argue on here that his football was crap or it was good, but I can say this as a proud Bristolian that has supported City since 1966, that his observations are not far from the truth. It’s what people I have met from all over the country including one or two of ex players I’ve known. Lovely part of the world, nice people but just a bit accepting or ... nice, or parochial, bit of a football backwater. Also geographically not much competition down here compared with the North, Midlands and London. Then again look at Norwich, Ipswich - they haven’t done badly over the years despite being outposts. We haven’t had much to cheer about over the years and we’ve got used to that. A tier 3 promotion every ten years, and a giant killing cup run every 20 years or so... with a Sherpa van Papa Johnstones Cup thrown in now and again. That’s not to belittle these achievements, they’ve been great times out for me, but it’s hardly surprising that we’re all a bit passive for a decent size supported big city club. I liked Pearson because for me he started to address the passivity about our club’s culture. I sincerely hope that LM can keep this going. He does seem a nice man. He also seems an ambitious one as well, so let’s hope he can add a bit of ruthless ambition to our nice club. Whatever happens I’m sure I’ll still be joining in with the “We’re the greatest football team the world has ever seen”. It’s the hope that kills etc etc. I might add to this stating the blindingly obvious (that the Lansdowns seem to imply themselves) that we need a massive boost of both financial investment and more importantly strategic energy, football business expertise and ideas, to either supplement the Lansdowns Board of Directors, or completely take over the tenure of the club. Meanwhile we’ll continue to dream...

I agree and do think it’s more to do with the personnel and their reading of the game. Despite a lot of people’s downers on Weimann (headless chicken and all that), I’ve always thought he’s made good runs in the past and hasn’t often been picked out at the right times. He’s got more intelligence and isn’t just an engine as some say IMO. As I said and you point out with the goal as an example, that it’s anything but rigid. The key for the players and Manning is to get this happening far more often, players executing it with more instinct and fluidity. Then it will obviously look rigid. A couple of key recruits in January with that sort of nous along with practice makes perfect I guess ready for next season I guess. On that question of time periods for this all to come together? Rest of season, 2 years or the 3.5 years of LM’s contract? NP had a 3 year plan at the beginning of his permanent tenure. My feeling from last season was that was what NP genuinely thought and sold to the Board that it should take. When he actually got into seeing the nitty gritty reality of the job saw it was more of a task than he thought. Particularly with getting rid of players on those big wage contracts and not being able to bring in substantial change as quickly as he originally anticipated. I think he was a year behind in his predictions. I actually believe with the right backing (and I don’t mean spending tons of Scott money - just a little in a couple of key areas) we would be closer to the play off contenders this year, with a definite push next year. The biggest annoyance is not that LM is here or that we are seemingly wanting to play a different style that we are putting back our progress again. So why the **** didn’t we recruit that type of coach after Johnson and Holden at the very least. And I don’t accept that hindsight’s a wonderful thing because we’ve had a track record of this for years. That’s the thing that makes me really mad, not NP v. LM personality stuff. Let’s hope we stick to a bloody plan once and for all. Flexibility within that if conditions demand it, but stick to the philosophy and bigger picture. I feared in previous posts ages ago that we seem to rip it up and start again. I actually don’t think this will be quite that, but for me there’s no denying it will be significant changes (and yet again patience) needed. I’m prepared to wait (no choice have to supporting this club) as long as we get tangible progress and excitement along the way.

Football has definately moved on from when I was a kid. Things have intensified and appears more sophisticated in terms of physicality/fitness requirements as well as tactically. I’m a football lover but no football tactician or statistician, but what you’ve highlighted is to me the basics I was taught when first playing football, exemplified by all the best teams that I’ve seen over the years. The basic principles of passing, moving and covering your team mates. These are basics along with passing accuracy, tackling, marking, playing with your head up and ball control. The better you are at these the more confident and brave to play in any style or system. I really think that all the passing about at the back we saw in the last few games is because some of our players look scared to move out of their system and do something more instinctive, read the game, pass and move, create space, carry the ball to create space. All the basics. Whatever happened to overlapping fullbacks, decoy runs to give our wide men space, positive movement. Waiting for the right moments is fine, but we end up being far too ponderous, too many touches. Until we start being a bit braver and massively improve our movement we’ll just be a slave to whatever system we adopt and just look as predictable in our build up as we did on Sunday. Any system/formation should give us some structure to play within, but we we look far too rigid and when I looked at players like Pring, Sykes, Conway, Bell, the previous strengths they have brought to the team seemed inhibited and restrained. I’ll concede that our goal was a good example in build up of what we can achieve, but interestingly enough Sykes popped up on the right where he’s been most effective here. We’ve got to have far more movement and players making space to give the player on the ball more options. And we’ve got to get better at executing those simple things, less unforced errors when in promising attacking positions.

We are, and it pains me to say it, historically a mediocre club with a record of never winning a major trophy (despite us occasionally singing over the years along with 91 other league clubs, “We’re the greatest football team the world has ever seen”). My dad got me hooked and now I’ve got my son hooked (he has never forgiven me!) so I can’t change my allegiance now. I’ve lived and worked around the country. We are no less committed or passionate as fans at the various clubs around the country. However I do believe that lack of success has somewhat developed a sort of resigned acceptance of that mediocrity. Almost a sense of realism and acceptance of our position. Yes, we all dream about winning the cup and prem football, and that’s the beauty of football, there’s always a dream. Making it a reality is another thing. This acceptance thing, slight lethargy if you like is one of the things that I really warmed to Pearson’s attitude at the club. He was prepared to tell us we were a strange sort of club, passive in lots of ways. He told us and mainly the owners a few honest, uncomfortable truths. It wasn’t meant to be an insult, but a call to change our mentality and culture. Okay we can argue on here that his football was crap or it was good, but I can say this as a proud Bristolian that has supported City since 1966, that his observations are not far from the truth. It’s what people I have met from all over the country including one or two of ex players I’ve known. Lovely part of the world, nice people but just a bit accepting or ... nice, or parochial, bit of a football backwater. Also geographically not much competition down here compared with the North, Midlands and London. Then again look at Norwich, Ipswich - they haven’t done badly over the years despite being outposts. We haven’t had much to cheer about over the years and we’ve got used to that. A tier 3 promotion every ten years, and a giant killing cup run every 20 years or so... with a Sherpa van Papa Johnstones Cup thrown in now and again. That’s not to belittle these achievements, they’ve been great times out for me, but it’s hardly surprising that we’re all a bit passive for a decent size supported big city club. I liked Pearson because for me he started to address the passivity about our club’s culture. I sincerely hope that LM can keep this going. He does seem a nice man. He also seems an ambitious one as well, so let’s hope he can add a bit of ruthless ambition to our nice club. Whatever happens I’m sure I’ll still be joining in with the “We’re the greatest football team the world has ever seen”. It’s the hope that kills etc etc.

Ran out of likes for today, but this is absolutely spot on. As a fan this for me is the frustration. Maybe this time they stick at this latest philosophy. It would be a first! We might even have a plan (think Brighton, Brentford and Luton!!!)

I think this is the reality of where we are. What bothers me is if Tinnion is our Football Technical Director, why had he gone along with NP style for so long, recruiting with that in mind, instead of making recommendations to change style/ Manager philosophy and direction earlier? Surely a technical director should be the club’s expert checks and balances on making sure the football strategy and philosophy of the club has changed. If we had looked at a manager who wanted a high pressing style or counter attack style whatever, then I could have understood that maybe they wanted a maybe younger, fresher recruit who would continue to develop this style that we had allegedly recruited for. Not against a possession based style or whatever style, but what happened to continuity. If there was a desire and club mandate to produce a possession based football team, then why the hell didn’t they recruit a manager/coach with those philosophies at the end of last season or earlier? That’s my frustration with this club. We have flip flopped over managerial directions over the years, so is it any wonder we have got into financial difficulties over the years. What will be interesting is to see how many of this current squad will be kept who are adaptable to the new style we are adopting? If RM manages to do that with this squad then absolute fair play to him, but I can’t help seeing some decent investment in getting more players in to help.

For me now bottom line is we are where we are. I’m not going to stop supporting City despite the clumsy handling of this whole situation. IMHO I think NP sorted a lot of shit out with a degree of honesty and frankness. He set up a blank canvas. The thing is he was never going to get a contract renewal. Long term he was not the type of personality that the owners appear to want to work with. With that in mind the fact he has gone now is giving Manning the fairly unique opportunity to have a good two thirds of a season to put in place the things he wants to start putting in place to play his football, without fire fighting relegation with a reasonable squad to build upon, and without the immediate impending restrictions of an FFP fine, etc. This also means he can be part of the planning for summer window rather than be starting blind in the summer. Forget top six PR talk, that was just clumsy cover for why the owners wanted rid of NP. It will take some time, new player additions and results for the team to go from passing around the back to more incisive exciting possession based football. It doesn’t have to be boring, but until the team get familiar, comfortable, braver, confident and competent with it, we are in form some very patchy performances. My biggest frustration is that this is not a more seemless progression from NP, but a fair sized departure. And that looks likely to take time again. So I guess I see the fact that LM has a lot of this season to experiment, build foundations of his style/vision, then I’m prepared to be patient to see a marked improvement by the time we get to the beginning of next season. I actually think we should be aiming for at least top ten and a developing squad with a settled and effective way of playing by the end of this season.

I think this is probably the biggest fear that causes some the negative reactions to his appointment. The history of our appointments have left a lot to be desired and have often followed a random change in style and seemingly lacking a sense of continuity. Fans are naturally worried this is yet another rinse and repeat. Fingers crossed this guy finds his feet soon. My feeling is that he seemed a little unsure of himself in todays interview which may be down to lack of experience and just simple disappointment. I suppose the fact that LJ seemed to struggle in later interviews when his tactical speak wasn’t cutting it anymore with the fanbase brings out those fears that is Manning the real deal or will he prove another text book manager appointment that’s been picked because he’s on trend as far as the owners are concerned. Only time will tell, but it’s very early days in what has been an emotional time for the fans, so we gotta give him his chance. Yes I’m trying to be patient but it does get more difficult with every season of false dawns!

I think that this whole episode is of their making in how they handled it, and it’s on their heads whether it proves right or wrong. But yes, all this stuff about the top six and results driven was just PR fluff to justify their actions. It seems pretty clear that it’s going to take some time for the squad to be developed to be able to play this style to a level to seriously be a consistent challenger for the top six. Well at least the remainder of this season in my opinion. Any sooner and it will be a very welcome bonus.

True, they haven’t set the same standards as last year. But still maintain that they look void of confidence to do the things they are good at. And look inhibited to try. I just think that it’s going to take time and new players if this style is to work. And yes it was incredibly clumsy and naive of JL framing this as some sort of on the grass coaching that will get us top six, top half or whatever this season. Of course it could in this crazy league, but looks pretty unlikely from what I’ve witnessed so far. If Manning can get a top ten finish with evidence of performances coming together to give us hope of real progression and a tangible challenge next season, then I think we are all realistic enough to take that as a positive for this season.

Think this is the key reason for me why things look so dull at the minute. Until we start to look confident on the ball and we create movement for options to pass to, things will get worse. We look far too predictable, robotic, no spontaneity or creative spark. We also invite pressure onto ourselves because we have few options. What is worse is that for me a lot of the players look inhibited to move out of position, no instinctive play. I’d reference James, Bell, Conway and Pring especially. Their early season form and forays forward seem to have been curbed to the detriment of the team. Or seem completely isolated. I also think we built a team to be fit and try to press but the games I’ve seen have lacked a press from the front and any feeling of energy. No wonder the atmosphere is crap at Ashton Gate. I went today with a friend who’s a Newcastle fan, doesn’t know that much about us so no agendas etc. His main observation was no movement, too slow in moving the ball around, predictable, poor quality overall execution when we got ourselves in good positions. The thing is, this possession based football is not dull and crap when played at it’s best. But at the minute we look like novices at it. Which currently we are. We may not also be good enough or suited to play at it, at least enough to get us into the play offs. At the moment we look like we’re playing football by numbers from a manual. But we have to still give the guy time. And more pertinently, investment for more quality additions who can play this football. Forget top six crap from Lansdown. This is about build again for next season. I hope it comes off and we get some great flowing football. But I’m sorry today was undoubtedly dull and distinctly mediocre. And that was nothing to do with possession football, it was to do with us struggling with playing with it.

Think this is a very important point. Not saying one is good, the other is poor. But they appear very different in personalities and delivery. In any walk of life this will take some adjustment. I also don’t think it is totally down to age or type of football philosophy either although has some influence. If you look at the ultimate footballing coach in Pep, he is very demonstrative, passionate as is Klopp, Bielsa and indeed so is Corberan. On the other hand, the likes of Potter came over to me as more reserved, controlled. Howe seems quite calm, but over the years his personna appears mor confident with a few more displays of passion. Pearson gained authority through his reputation, personna, experience, etc. That didn’t always manifest itself through football style or results but undoubtedly there appeared a team spirit and effort. Manning seems a little awkward but ultimately will gain authority, confidence and professional respect as players see his methods reaping positive results. I think it will take time in reality. I’ve got to be honest what I’ve seen of his interviews so far doesn’t particularly fire me up much. Not that he doesn’t make decent points, just all feels a bit bland. However, I really won’t give a toss if his slightly bland corporate tone translates into success and excitement on the field. If that were to be the case, I’ll be more than happy to let his team do the talking on the field. I want him to build on the foundations set by NP but we’re going to have to give him time and a fair crack of the whip.

We looked much better when Knight was pushed forward and TGH alongside James. Knight’s aggression and energy helps our forward press and is best used fiurther forward at the minute. Despite criticism of Bell recently, his pace offers more up front too. Mehmeti bothers me. Cofidence looks shot. Hope LM can build him up again. Dare I say Weimann looks a bit lost, works hard but isn’t effective enough to create up front. Has he lost a bit of pace over a short distance. Would love a player like Armstrong they brought on. Probably because he ’s in the powerful direct Semenyo type. Got a draw, first game out of the way for LM and a break. But loads for him to do. Never say never in this division, but we look fair bit off the top six. Realistically, transition to LM style with good performances and a top ten finish would persuade me we might be moving in the right direction. Going to be very interesting to see how this progresses. Will LM have the transformative effect of a Gary Johnson or Cotterill, or will he prove a Bobby Houghton, Benny Lennartson, or Derek McGiness ? Let’s hope the first two mentioned. But think that we are definitely missing a couple of key attacking areas so hope SL will loosen the purse strings a bit in Jan.

“Dicks Out!” graffitied on the old block toilet walls if I remember.

I s it right that Ilias Chair suspended for this game? Supposed to have scored a cracker last week so will be a big help if he’s out too.

Good luck LM, we all hope you’re a great success. After all that’s gone on, whatever the arguments for or against, I’ll be just glad to get back to watching the game and judge what we see on the field from the new guy. He is here now and deserves to be given a chance to state the obvious. After a bit of reflection, reading all the views on both sides of the arguments and opinions from outside the club and it’s supporters, I need to move on. So finally my take on this is as follows and really always has been. I liked Pearson, wasn’t sure I would. I actually think he came to us about six years too late. However, I always thought his role at the time he came in was as a firefighter, get the club on a reset, and without getting relegated in doing so. Like him or loathe him he told us some much needed home truths. He was never going to be a long term fit for all sorts of reasons I guess with the current ownership. He basically answered the call when we looked like we were becoming a basket case of a club again. Remember the scenario. Team were on the slide, low on confidence, inexperienced struggling coach (likeable, had abilities but seemingly out of his depth for the job at that time), CEO (who appeared to have had an influential role in football matters) was looking to jump ship. Nige may not have ultimately provided the exciting progressive football that we all may have craved, but he has helped to build a platform for the club to actually implement a coherent football plan. And that is the most positive aspect. Listening to what Tinman said last week (forget all the club politics and personalities for a minute) was basically what Nige and Liam Manning seemed to have been saying. Implementation may be a different thing. But I thought at last there was an explicit statement coming from a club employee that resembled a logical vision for our club. A plan... yes I know I bang on about it when I’ve posted on here!...as Manning said dare to dream, but it’s all about how we get there (paraphrased heavily I think). Maybe this is the time that we’ve woken up to realising that we need to implement our own planning as the likes of Swansea, Norwich, Brentford, Brighton, Luton, yes and even Ipswich (why didn’t Ashton do it here?!!!). I think Nige has left us in a decent position to kick on now. We must be brave and stick to a strategy. If LM doesn’t work out or he spectacularly does and gets poached (by Bournemouth no doubt!) that we will develop a framework where either a new coach or new players can come in without the need to wholesale change again. Tweak formations, different personalities, fresh impetus, etc. but not change philosophy. Brighton and Brentford built with a plan (flexible to adapt to conditions but always with an eye to check they were on course) that accounted for different managers who bought into the vision. Swansea did this successfully over the years. And Tinnion has actually stated this about being more focused to recruiting to a plan, be it players or coach. The club has actually said it. Let’s hope it wasn’t just lip service and they stick to it. Right all that is off my chest! I now enter for the umpteenth time a period of quiet optimism, and, similar to the beginning of every season, my sense of reality goes out of the window as I dream of us storming to the top of the league. Yes it’s the hope that kills, but it’s the hope that always keeps me coming back to Ashton Gate.

Did I say the board suck, down with the lansdowns, etc? Don’t think so. What I said is that the Lansdowns with one or two eceptions have not made good recruitment decisions. They have flip flopped in their recruitment style which has seen us stagnate so many times. They have often made reactive appointments including Pearson, who was basically brought in at times to firefight and steady the ship. For all the money invested which any fan would agree is admirable and yes grateful, they have essentially failed in their goal. Hence why as fans we feel the frustration when so called smaller teams have leap frogged us over the years. Those teams have often had a good recruitment and planning strategy. SL has struggled to get in the right football people to help him get to the promised land. Bad luck, or bad decision making. You tell me. Now, I’m not taking sides here, as I said in an earlier post I really hope that this appointment is a blinding success and would go some way to vindicating the recent decisions and prove that the board have at last started to build and execute a longer term plan. We’ve got no divine right to be successful, we all no it’s a difficult league to get promoted from. But as fans we would love to see our club build a strategy for success in the way that the usual suspects Brighton, Brentford, etc. have done. Okay, not copy them - do it a Bristol City way - but just show us that plan. I actually think Manning sounds an interesting appointment and will be good to see his take on the squad. End of the day, I want BCFC to get this right. So no this isn’t about anti Lansdown or pro Nige. It’s a genuine observation that despite SL’s huge and much appreciated investment for the club’s infrastructure, however well intended his football management recruitment has often left a lot to be desired. Just maybe and the board might be getting it right with this guy and we all get a successful team and club that we can all get together again.