Silvio Dante

I don’t think we’re miles off in our reading - I think in practical terms Bird is a James as opposed to King replacement (as the latter isn’t really playing). I’d see Bird as a like for like there on which basis. So not necessarily a squad improvement from where we are now - get what you’re saying about Knight but he’s already here. Twine/ the other 10 improves us “permanently” (debate whether that should be Twine elsewhere) So for me from what is in the building today the key question is the Tommy one. If we bring in a 9 in addition to him it’s a definite squad enhancement. If we get a 9 and a “one for the future” it isn’t. I’d find it hard to argue it’s three players up (plus Stokes etc) from what’s here. At most it looks like one. The key, as ever, will be what quality that new 10 and 9 are.

Don’t disagree overall but I think what’s generally being pitched is a bit of a “like for like” - two major “ins” just equalises the two major “outs”. I’d also agree that we shouldn’t go outside the structure - one of the things Nige was always big on was that players should earn broadly similar. Ways and means around that (Signing on fee structure, bonus) mind. So to go via your route I think it’s four players to account for the likely losses, and agree they can’t be ones for the future. The wildcard is Stokes who from reports might - just might - be akin to one of those major “ins”

You said you were in the Lansdown? People behind you a bit annoying, knew very little about football and chatted shit constantly? Wasn’t these guys was it?

The irony there is that I’d envisage we’d have to pay a minimum of £3m for Twine and at least £15k a week, and whoever is buying Conway would expect to pay a minimum of £3m and £15k a week. So, on those sums, it’s back to the squad being as it is broadly. (Don’t disagree with the general thrust of argument but two quality signings that markedly improve us will be a bit more than that IMO)

The broader question is that if it’s two signings whether that gives us enough to make a dent in the top six. If we assume we retain Williams but not James/King, and also assume we lose Conway, then we’re pretty much at a zero sum game (Bird for James, new 10 for Twine or Twine, new 9 for Conway). Yes, we then have SPH and Stokes as young players to augment the squad but there aren’t any others obviously coming through. As Bird for James can be argued as like for like, Twine for Twine is obviously like for like and the new 9 for Conway is going to be like for like broadly, then the question really is - are the current squad (as it’s not going to be markedly improved) good enough to give us what we want, and sub question, how does that play to the “his players” narrative (For avoidance of doubt if Liam gets success without “his players” but adjusting to the squad he has then it takes away a major concern).

If I had to lay odds on it I’d think that the only one who may be here next season is Twine, but I agree with your analysis of him in terms of value - the only thing I’d disagree on is in terms of pure scouting, if you’d seen someone seven times, then you’d be expected to make a call - no reason why that should change for someone we have on loan.

And Conway and Twine and Medube.

My take on Nige is that although he had an idea he was walking into a shitshow, he didn’t quite understand how bad it was. When he got here and found that out there was a degree of “WTF have I gotten into?”. I agree he then broadly relaxed into it and I think that was because he saw the trajectory was improving and he was happier with what he had. In short it was someone who enjoyed the job more the greater chance he had to shape it. Thats always been the contrast with Liam - again, done to death but he didn’t walk into a shitshow playing squad wise and he probably put himself under a bit of unnecessary pressure due to the reasons you outline. Hopefully he’s over that now.

To be fair, you’re using windows as a plural - and I agreed if you go back to the summer the recruitment was good. There was a thread a few weeks ago on hits/misses/jury out and at that point for me the jury was out on McCrorie, Roberts and to an extent TGH. Jury in on the second of those now, and I agree, a good summer window. But if you take window in the singular as in January then it can’t be viewed as good at present. A lot will depend on how good Bird and Stokes are but for various reasons the three arrivals haven’t worked out. I’m not sure that’s in any way a controversial take. As in what they’re supposed to say, there would have been absolutely nothing wrong in saying “It hasn’t worked out for him in Belgium but we’re going to take a look”. They chose to fabricate a story about work permits. And to be clear, lying in football happens (it happened yesterday re saying we haven’t had discussions re OOC, it happens when we say someone isn’t fit). This wasn’t one of those. It was a totally fabricated story to cover they got it wrong, and it was easily disproven. The lying then continued with Murphy’s mystical pre season. As we stand, the January window worked out poorly. It happens. But head in the sand over it and accepting whatever bullshit people say is never a good move.

It’s been done to death but the main problem was in how the deal was presented. Tinnion was very bullish over him, and DM was given the whole big signing video. It was positioned as one for the first team that we’d been scouting for a while and a bit of a coup. Had it been positioned as coming over (effectively) for a trial then it’d have been viewed a lot differently. The club then made things a lot worse by bullshitting over his work permit situation in Belgium - both Liam and Brian very guilty of that. The bottom line is we’re not signing him (or we certainly shouldn’t) and the way the deal was presented through to how he’s been plonked on the bench with no chance of getting on (assumedly due to a “matchday clause” in the deal) has been bizarre from start to finish. If anything, it’s a lesson to the club in communication. As for recruitment I broadly agree if we’re going back to start of season. However, and having liked the Jan window to start with, the three signings who arrived here then can’t be classed as anything but poor on aggregate (Bird and Stokes I maintain good business to get done early but clearly can’t comment on their ability) Medube - A load of bullshit about work permits, an abysmal 30 minutes, no sign of touching the pitch Murphy - Seems to have a chronic injury, probably pointing to why we passed in the summer Twine - Largely indifferent With the benefit of hindsight it looks pretty poor. The get out here is that we can send two of them back and one is likely to have not been expensive and we can claim on insurance if he’s totally unable to play (hopefully!)

Nope. Can’t recall the first one of Liams I did but as @1960maaan said, it seems to be appreciated so I’ll keep doing them if I have time. Its been interesting both because you can see that a change in demeanour leads to better answers (I don’t think there was a Pearson change in demeanour against results that was as clear) and because Piercys bit is always good value (I tend to want the RB bit to be done so I can get to him). Title of thread is pretty clear so if it’s not something people are interested in they can always skip past

And tbh that kind of worries me. I’ve not seen enough in Twine over his games to date that he’s a worthwhile signing. I don’t concur that he’s “unlocked” Knight - his movement isn’t great, he’s not drifting into spaces, he’s just “there” - no more than any other AM (or even AM) would be. A presser like today was Liam giving “come here” vibes to Twine and Burnley will have picked up on that and negotiate accordingly - and I’m not sure Scott is worth what they will want. And again, in terms of results, correlation doesn’t equal causation. Scott has shown a real lack of desire at times and has also tended to be - in short - a bit of a whiner. He gets fouls but it’s not a “Scott” in drawing fouls - it’s going to ground easy, getting some, and not getting others and being affronted by it. I said when we signed Twine that the best case may have been an underwhelming loan spell which kept the price down. We’ve got that. But we’ve also got a head coach making “**** me” eyes at him which pushes the price back up. Worst of all worlds.

I’d hazard a guess it’s how it’s cached. Take the sentence “I didn’t explain myself probably as well as I could, I want players to be emotional” and contrast it with what was said of “People don’t listen properly” The fact is that he did say what @Superjacksays he did in the manner he did. The way he’s cached it - when he could have made the point so much better - is a bit “I was always right and you were wrong”. I thought it was a decent presser overall, and again, I’ve made the point before when he said emotion that he didn’t really mean that and had explained himself poorly. But a flag that remains is “are we changing to save his job and he’ll revert to type”. Comments of this nature add, understandably, to that concern.

JKL - yeah it was. He was carrying a knock as opposed to got a knock. Twine - yes we are, that’s my reading. I wouldn’t based on evidence to date and I’ve not seen great signs of a Palmer-Afobe type link between Twine and Conway (neither of whom may be here next season). I think he likes the player and he’s reading correlation and not causation. As for the people not understanding - no comment!

Ummm….its a public forum where you don’t need a membership to view? I know Liams denied being on social media before but I’ll be damned sure that the club (and we’ve seen posters here from the club) are tasked with trawling social media to gauge the fanbase - that’s not a bad thing, it’s sensible management. It follows that they’d then brief the manager/head coach. This isn’t the masons.

I visited Solihull Moors as part of my boys “groundhopping” earlier this year pre West Brom. It’s pretty much right next to the NEC as a ground - closest ground is St Andrews so I’d guess Brum would be rivals (particularly as there may only be one division between them next year!)

I think it’s a case of a collective fib. From both sides perspective, once the division they are in is known (or even highly likely) then there is no reason for as a minimum representatives not to talk. In practical terms discussions start a long way before that. Anything else is naive. Why would the head coach and TD have: - Identified the players they want (confirmed ongoing) - Planned pre season in intense detail (confirmed) …but not spoken to members of the squad to determine if they’re going to (or likely to) stay and how that wage impacts the budget. The point fundamentally feeds the recruitment strategy and leaving it until 5th May wastes a lot of time where replanning/rebasing will be needed thereafter. It’s a dance. We know he’s fibbing. He knows we know he’s fibbing.

Antoine Semenyo scoring for Bournemouth at Wolves too. (Mods - Please move to ex players forum )

If ever a thread was made for @Lorenzos Only Goal…

Just to prove it doesn’t only happen when things are bad. I’ll take a wild guess as to which bullet will get the most attention…! - Vyner has a chance but very unlikely to be fit - Doesn’t see it as a specific test of playing a lower team, more about how we play - Unsure what expectations were post break. Definitely feels there is progress, more resilience and fight - really enjoyed a lot of us with the ball against Norwich and started post second half well, playing with purpose - Noted matched points from last season so want to beat that with two to go. Referenced he thinks we’ve been good defensively consistently, pointing to QPR, Cardiff, Ipswich - Looking forward to time on grass in pre season, heavy schedule post Christmas. Happy with where group are at and now about fine tuning - Conversations with OOC players haven’t happened as yet (I’d say that’s a lie…!) - Thinks Joe Williams has done well recently but been helped by those around him, credit to the staff and coaches as that’s what they do in improving players and most have - Haydon Roberts not seen as backup. Had to be patient but has done well. Didn’t answer question as to what he’s seen as (fullback or centre half) - Medube - looked decent in training and might get an opportunity (I think that’s the second lie) - Thinks Norwich goal offside, Cornick onside - Watched 21s yesterday - were some decent bits, attitude good, Brian’s done a great job, behaviours were right. Didn’t name a specific player. Watching 18s later - Knight-Lebel comment - taken off after 60 minutes as back injury as opposed to plans for first team - Need more goals from across the team - “People misread what I say and don’t listen properly at times. I want players to be emotional but recognise you need to be in control and not make rash actions” In training gave bad decisions in game to work on reactions (I do that with 12 year olds so wholeheartedly back it!) - Psychology plays a big part in recruitment- need to understand the whole package, sometimes don’t understand that until they’re in the door. Look at recovery, positioning as these tend to be focus and desire behaviours - the team are very good at that - Knights current position; has done a great job there, the group understand how to play positions now. Asked if it was a long term plan or had developed - said it wasn’t a plan long term and LM is adaptable and likes to tweak things. Knight is now running less/smarter. - Conway - no update. Want to keep him, he has an offer. Loves working with him. Thinks Conway has improved this season and should score 15+ a season, Twine helps that. - Body alignment coach visiting the club. Wasn’t Liams decision. End of season need each department needs to review how they work. - Every day of pre season is planned already in terms of session, running distance etc. Again, pretty relaxed (as expected). The comment of people not listening was a bit barbed - but it’s also no coincidence he’s got better at communicating as he’s got more relaxed and it was a large part of he wasn’t articulating as well. (And tbf I had noted I think he said emotion when he meant focus and he’s using it in a different context here). That whole section was pretty interesting and is worth a listen.

Technically, they could have sold less in the South Stand than this season and it’d be sold out because they’re not selling them. Mind. Blown.

I think the last point is entirely it. I’ve said I’m pissed off with the hierarchy- and I am - and still want change. But I was here before them and I’ll be here after them. It isn’t like a normal product

I can’t agree with that. Unless you know you’re selling a “sure thing” then the proverbial bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. ST sales are guaranteed income and although they may get you less revenue then filling the ground with POTD, they are income you’re sure of. If we could be sure we’d be top of the league and win every game 6-0 with people falling over themselves to attend it’s a possible business case to focus on POTD. But we can’t, and we won’t. Imagine phasing out season tickets then having a relegation season and what that does to income.

This is a phenomenal resource and regularly updated - clicking in will give you the likely makeup next season. Forecast is for Gloucester to be in Southern Prem South: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1j9Xsb52BW6OYS98S4SIM4ueejxbA2I9CHePzrzlqSlk/htmlview?pli=1#

That would be Patrick Hoban and Jimmy Kehone. Both have made semi decent lower level/Irish league careers overall.