Silvio Dante

Few points: - It wasn’t just necessarily what the fans thought of Pearsons sacking, it was the message that the board gave to the fans and how that would colour expectations moving forward. Ultimately his most visible workplace is in the stadium each week and if he’s not delivering on what has been publicly stated as expected that would be toxic quickly. Any manager or head coach would as a minimum have read the public statements and if he didn’t he’s negligent - I think as this forum shows, and as the booing/general atmosphere shows, it isn’t just a minority of fans who are troubled by what’s been going on. There are scales of that troubled status - and they are largely driven by those above him - but there are, naturally, genuine questions over Liam. And to be clear, he would again have been smart enough to pre-empt those likely concerns and know the need to dispel those - through performance - as soon as possible - He’d better give a toss what the fans think. Although Jon and Brian may be in charge, you can be damn sure if the atmosphere gets toxic it won’t be them falling on their sword - it’ll be him going. Same as at any club, unpopular managers don’t last long because that unpopularity translates to lost revenue and ownership bruised ego. I repeat, it’s basic due diligence to when you move any job to do your homework. If he didn’t do that, he’s a fool. If he did and didn’t care what fans felt or understand the expectation he’s equally a fool. And if all he cares about is the money as your last line indicates, he’s less of a man than we hope he is.

Interestingly enough in his best ever season (MK Dons) he took over in August so had no pre season. Best form was in the second half of the season but it’s fair that to start with he took over a platform from Martin that played a similar game so could hit the ground running. When he then had a full pre season at Dons the following season he was sacked in December. So, he can do it with no pre season but the lesson for me there is it depends how much work is needed for the “transition” - with MK Dons to start with it was really pushing at an open door as a lot of the style was already in place. I expect it to be longer here.

I think what you have to remember is that he’s hugely process driven. You could put him into Man City or Harrogate Town and he’d follow the same pattern/journey, irrespective of what went before - so from his point of view, it is a transition phase from “what was before” to “what it will be”. I’m not narked about him talking about transition because I think that’s just poor use of language and comes from his character and really using stock answers in interviews. As above, he did say he didn’t see it as a “rebuild” which probably tells more as to the thinking. However, he did then also say (words to the effect of) you wouldn’t necessarily get a bounce quickly from him but he would yield results long term. The problem there is he couldn’t define what long term was, which if I tried in an appraisal I’d likely get a flea in my ear!

I think you’ve highlighted here something which, if true, i’m going to call the “Manning Paradox”. He is at the same time so obsessed with football that he spends every waking moment devouring information on it, yet at the same time is so unobsessed with football that he doesn’t do basic due diligence on fans expectations/feeling on a club when he is looking at a job. This place, Twitter etc aren’t hard to find and nor were Jon and Brian’s (eventual) public pronouncements. If he did have no idea, then I’d suggest he’s not as diligent about things as he’s made out to be.

I think the natural default is empathy because he didn’t create this scenario (ie the sacking of Pearson for ropey at best reasons) but against that he did walk in to this scenario. He was appointed over a week after Pearson was sacked. I’m more than willing to say that he had different conversations internally than were positioned externally, but he undoubtedly knew what he was walking into in terms of public expectation. On that basis, for want of a better term, I’d suggest he’s “fair game”. As with any job, he knows the expectation (set at a false bar by the ownership but the fans will judge on that), and not meeting that will naturally lead to dissatisfaction. I’m not minded to have sympathy for him. He knew the assignment. I’m still more angry at Lansdown and Tinnion but to absolve LM actually insults his intelligence

Here’s the longer presser with the media. To avoid being distracted by Liams unwillingness to embrace male pattern baldness, and to avoid the old ground, jump to 8:30 where the question is asked whether he sees it as a rebuild. https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/manning-looks-ahead-to-huddersfield/ Interestingly his answer is “no”, but then he says the way he works you don’t see a bounce straight away, but see results longer term. When pressed on the long term, he’s asked what that long term timeframe is and laughs and can’t say.

Clues are in the numbers by the signature. There is a 14 that will be Skuse, a 27 that will be Adomah. 29 in the season I think it is looks right for Patrick Hoban and 34 is Pittman. 5 Damion Stewart. That makes 10 Maynard and your top from the 2010-11 season.

I will take to my grave that if Joe hadn’t left for Hearts we’d have got promoted that season. No shadow of a doubt in my mind.

Agree. And I really don’t want to be paying through the nose for a loan unless it’s to get you over the line - for every Tammy Abraham there are ten Ryan Kent’s and with what you get charged it’s far from the low risk:high reward strategy you can get at league one and below. Too many loanees obviously also lands you in the “constant rebuild” phase of Joey Barton… You’re probably way ahead of me on this but it’d be interesting to see the players Liam brought in at MK Dons just to see the nature of player and whether they kicked on - we all know Twine is a big A+ but Darling was already there. Might be a weekend job! Edit - Just had a quick look and to correct myself he didn’t sign Twine who signed under Russell Martin. One loan brought in and that was it for the summer window.

Yeah the last one I can think of (and probably the only one I can think of) who had a better platform in my time was Jimmy Lumsden who took over post Joes first stint in 1990. Historically as a club we’ve not had managers leave to better things or be poached - the only one post Joe was Tony Pulis and he didn’t leave a good base for any number of reasons! What that says about us as a club I’m not sure, but it does seem careers go here to die managerially.

I’ll have a go at the second. It’s before my time but using logic did he do something like score the last goal in a game played on Christmas Day in the English or Scottish league (depending on where he was playing at the time - think Scotland?)

Didn’t think you were, and I think the view I have is the same - it’s players from other clubs and a fair amount of loans. I intuitively don’t like those as they’re not “yours” so I don’t think it works as a strategy long term but sometimes, obviously, needs must. That also chimes with what the Ipswich fan was saying on the other thread about how McKenna liked to work (players from top other academies who had lost way) and that Manning was cut from the same cloth (and tbh that makes sense - on a broad basis there will be more quality in Arsenals academy than City’s) None of this makes him a bad manager, but it is pretty clear that he doesn’t at face value tick the requirements the board gave - use of academy, front foot attacking football (although that’s a cliche) etc. I’m finding the Foxpunter stuff helpful as well as it both explains and also probably reinforces my concerns over inability to adapt. You then add in our Ipswich friends observation of Liam needing time to implement and we’re probably back to where we seem to circle back to a lot - he might well be decent ultimately but he’s clearly not what was positioned. Rod for own back etc,

You know I love your nitpicking Dave (and I will qualify this by saying I looked at Wiki so source may not be reliable)! I think (and for everyone it will differ) that clubs of the size of Oxford and Dons rarely sign players to go into their academy - simply enough in the words of Mick Hucknall “monies too tight to mention” - so most signings you have to assume are for the first team squad unless by specific exception. Similarly someone like Odonkor has been kicking around the first team squad for years at Oxford (sure I remember him playing at 15 or similar), so although he’s “academy” as soon as they’ve played 5-6 games then they tend to be seen as a first team squad player at that level. However, I totally acknowledge that they may have had an equivalent of an Omar Taylor-Clark who played in the first team then dropped back down - but this is probably less likely at a lower level simply because the squads are smaller (and hence arguably it should be more easy to play academy players) My broad brush was looking at players who he’d given debut to then played more than 1-2 games (again, per wiki so normal caveats apply) and that was a zero. Without in depth knowledge of all players at Dons or Oxford (and I am totally prepared to take a different view from anyone with more knowledge of those clubs) that seemed to be a sensible metric considering club size/nature. Again, not saying good/bad (wholly plausible both Dons and Oxfords academies are skipfires), just flagging the oddity.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/manning-previews-terriers-trip/ Not the press conference but the internal Dave Barton piece. Nothing majorly new here (and nothing wrong with the interview from LMs side) but you have to ask why the media team would highlight this quote. Considering the noises made by JL/BT about how the progress is expected, describing it as “the start of a journey” is a bit tin eared tbh. Again, nothing wrong with the quote in the interview context.

One of the current oddities about Manning to date is that notwithstanding his reputation AFAIK he’s not brought through any academy players to the first team at either MK Dons or Oxford. Noting that a “pathway” relies on either ability (the academy players are good enough) or necessity (we have nobody else), if that doesn’t change here then I think it’s a bigger threat to the academy than the broader restructure - the academy does the right thing currently and there is no reason to change that. But its success relies both on a good youth system and a manager with the courage to use it - even if that means you “trial” players in the first team that might be ready.

Have a read of this. Foxpunter mentioned he thought Manning was a “Lead Blast” in his post and has now posted this re Emery….

They should have looked on the OS.

Has been for a while, probably low footfall. I can’t imagine loads of people visit on a non matchday and as staff will be working weekends it allows the club to give them the time off.

As I understand it McGuane is out of contract end of season but Oxford hold a years option.

Yeah the Scott sale was huge. Not just losing him but the rowing back as articulated by Phil Alexander (there’s a man I’d like to hear more from) of the plan with/plan without. To answer the question (although I sniff an agenda) We keep Scott - flirting with playoffs, potential to make top 6. Expect around 8th We sell Scott and make the right additions (2-3 signings) - broadly similar We sell Scott and make no real signings - outside playoff chance mainly due to the togetherness of squad but heavily reliant on no injuries and a decent slice of luck. Expect around 12th. Essentially the legs were cut off the old manager. But that’s well trodden ground and I’m not sure what bringing it up does now.

And nor did I…

Stop being obtuse. He has a reputation for developing youth but per wiki (which may be wrong) has not brought through one player from an academy in his managerial career. That may be due to a paucity of talent but is at least an oddity.

Dont get me wrong I agree with you but that’s not the message from on high. Without going over old ground in depth, had we spent a smidgen of that £25m after we got it on a couple of players this season could look very different right now.

Totally. I was making the point that being an academy coach and playing academy players in the first team are different things. Liams said he’ll be looking to the academy first but he’s not done that in two years of management - it’s an oddity and one I didn’t think Wiki looked right on.

So. That’s a new keeper. £5m signing and Prem wages Scott Twine and 30+ prem games age 22 on parachute wages Adam Idah. It’s a nest egg. Not a chicken farm.