Kibs

I mean, some of what has been said on this thread leads me to question why we even need a head coach/manager at all when the Players, JL and BT have seemingly cracked it all by themselves!!!

I don’t remember too many runs like this over the last few years so maybe all the managers had it wrong and were just holding them back!!!!??? 

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My view only Kibs.

What I saw in some of the games you reference were settle into low / mid block, only pressing off of preset trigger once in block (no idea of the coaching lingo but I’d call it it “block to press”), and if we had to wait until we’d been forced back before winning the ball, we’d then counterattack from deep.

Perfect for Southampton for example, who overcommit their full-backs forward and leave huge spaces for their CBs to cover.  We know they’ll build patterns from deep that means pressing can leave you open, so first instinct is sit in.  Doing that against a much weaker Swansea is a different kettle of fish.

What I’ve seen since Easter is us pressing higher up the pitch, not reverting in first instance into a block, trying to win it earlier, so we can attack an unsettled defence.  If we can’t then, at that point, we will drop into the block (let’s call it “press to block”).  A different emphasis / intent.

Theres a guy on Twitter - Bristol City FM (he’s the Football Manager researcher for City) - who explains these things better than me.

But placing an intent to press just 10 yards higher up the pitch has made a big difference.  We stop our opponent building patterns and getting into the middle third as easily as they did.

Thats my my view, anyway.  It feels very different to majority of pre-Easter.

Cheers Dave, I’ll take a look It’s interesting what a difference that 10 yards has seemingly made, though of course momentum, confidence play into the at too. Everything (on and off the ball) gets done with more purpose when you’ve won a couple!!! 

6 minutes ago, mozo said:

It was us reading between the lines:

JL   "For me specifically...the way we've played since the international break, certainly pressed higher up the pitch and got on the front foot, and that's really important for us, I think you can see that in not just the results but in the enjoyment as well..."

Q. That style of play is important to the club as a whole...?

"...That's how the academy play and that's how we've been recruiting. Again that's something that anyone coming in, you can see from their records in management that they play that way or they're going to have to adjust..."

Okay understood, I actually thought we saw some of that pre-international break too - Forest, Boro, Ipswich, spells against WBA…..but those home matches in amongst that were dire. It has also coincided with some key players returning but I’m hoping he’s found a formula that can continue to develop, particularly against similar ability teams where we have struggled in the past.

20 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It's a bit of 2+2 but Jon mentioned that everyone that comes into the club including the manager would have to adjust to our style which is front foot high pressing football. 

He mentioned how before the international break we played differently. So whilst it's correct that he didn't say "I told Liam to play differently" to me, he heavily insinuated that. When you add in the context that Liam did suddenly change our style then it all does add up. This change in style did coincide with SL making an appearance in the stands. Although I totally respect if you don't perceive his comments that way. 

Ah okay.

Yeah just not how I interpreted it. Mentioned adjustment, but I thought that was more adjustment to the level of opposition, adjusting to the capability of our squad etc

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s nonsense. 
As is most of what comes out of his mouth. 
If your were to write down his words and read them out verbatim, you’ll see it’s just a collection of words that mean nothing when placed in the order he says them. 
I find it really hard to fathom anything he says and his sentences never give any committed answer - it’s all just wafflly bollocks and means nothing. 
“in terms of this, in terms of that, that’s the process we’re looking for, the plan is this or that but I can’t tell you anything about how we actually achieve anything”. 
Waffly nonsense. 

You listened twice!! Nurse!! We’ve got another one. Quick….. 

 

To answer your question though I don’t think the board told Manning to rip it up. 
As Fevs alludes to on Page 4, I think the players “went rogue”. 
In fact, as far as I am aware, the players actually spoke to Manning about it and Manning agreed to switch back to the style that best suited the squad. 
That was the moment I said enough. I was backing him prior to that (this was around the time of the swans game). But once I heard that he’d wilted and threw his own principals in the bin due to player pressure, I didn’t want him in charge any more. That was my turning point.  If you feel you need to change something because it’s not working it should be because you yourself understand why and what you need to do to change. 
The fact he bowed to player pressure was enough to tell me he’s not a leader. 
 

And no surprise. Because the bloke speaking on the radio tonight isn’t any sort of leader either. 

Very fortunate that you’re “aware”. 

Depends how you frame it/view it doesn’t it…. Manning has been very open since joining that the team meetings, analysis sessions etc are very much a 2 way conversation and he wants engagement, opinions.

He’s also stated numerous times that he’s not so rigid that he’s not prepared to change, evolve, he’s always learning himself etc….that doesn’t need to mean ripping up principles. 

Just now, Tim Monaghan said:

The irony of that is incredible. 

How on earth do you know he was "told" to adjust? You're just making things up now 

I’m seriously starting to question my own sanity now - I’ve listened to it twice and I didn’t hear anything about the board telling him to change or him not suiting the club etc!!
 

I actually heard quite the opposite!!

Have I missed something in this interview? 

Read this thread before listening so was expecting to hear how Manning had to be told to change his approach, went against what the club wanted etc but I can’t seem to find it?

So was it said? Or have I just interpreted it completely differently!?

Anyway, not a bad interview. Pleased we are continuing with the same approach in terms of recruitment and quite positive about next season if we get the 2 or 3 we need. 

After the sale of Alex Scott, followed by not replacing him, I’d have taken this seasons outcome (on the pitch).

Then factor in the injuries NP had to deal with, and also LM to a slightly lesser extent, I think it’s actually a decent achievement to have gained more points than last season and have a positive goal difference.

It may be slight, but it is progress.

I’d like to see us sign him. Much more to come from Twine IMO and not surprising that he and we have got better as he has got fitter and more games under his belt.

Wouldn't pay £5m but I don’t think we’ll need to. Could be wrong but I don’t see him being more than substitute for them if they were to get relegated this season.

Not an ideal run in for Leicester either!!! 

No easy games in the Championship….massive win for Plymouth. 

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I’ve long said that I don’t think many teams come to AG and park the bus per se, I think a lot of teams see AG as a real opportunity to pick up a result.  There is of course the challenge of breaking down an organised defence, and for me (generally) that comes from playing too slow.  Perversely under Nigel (don’t blame me for mentioning his name) at times we tried to counter too quickly (yes that’s a criticism of him by me!), before we’d truly gained good possesion, and we would sloppily give the ball straight back.  Usually with Weimann having bombed on and out of position.

With all these things there’s some middle ground to be found, not too slow, not too quick.

Yeah I don’t think many teams park the bus against the mighty Bristol City, but they are aware that we can be a very effective counter attacking team. They’re also aware of our attacking deficiencies. 

And agree AG is definitely a place where teams fancy their chances!!! We’ve lost and drawn too many home games for what feels like several years now, another thing that has to change if we’re to make more significant progress.

Just now, Davefevs said:

I think the challenge (from me) to that is where did the confidence from Southampton disappear to, and why so quickly?

No idea Dave, but it was so typical. All bad runs start somewhere. We had sub-par performance against a QPR team who were (and still are) improving. 

I think as many have pointed out, we still struggle against teams who play a certain way, especially at home. Thats not necessarily new, and I think that’s one of the biggest challenges for LM. 
 

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

Perhaps a few of these things but for me, simplistically, I feel what’s changed is the message, not the delivery of the message. 

Its likely to be a big factor, and I hope that’s what has changed, because if it is, it’s more likely to remain that way. 

I do feel confidence plays a massive part though, perhaps even on the coaches part? 

You’re much more likely to retreat if you’re low on confidence or nervous than step up and press. You’re much more likely to pass safely, or pass sideways too. 

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Fevs would be better placed than me here stats wise, but I think you’d have to look at the positions we’ve been winning/playing the ball in, the possession, the lower number of passes to get a shot in. All of those have shown a dial shift from the naked eye, and that can’t really be anything other than a change in intent.

I’m not sure Hogg would say that they’ve changed the plan specifically, but I don’t think you’ll see many who would suggest we havent played differently in the last three wins as opposed to the pre Easter period. It feels less “shackled”.

The one thing I would say is that one of the thematics LM has said is about being “brave”. I think we’re being braver - we’re being prepared to lose (the game and possession) in order to win (the game and possession). Thats a massive sea change from a few weeks ago.

I agree with most of that, and I’m happier with how we’re playing, but I don’t necessarily think that it has to be down to intent or all down to intent anyway.

It could be intent, but there are several other factors at play too, and factors we’re not necessarily able to see or measure.

Playing devils advocate, how do we know the intent has changed? 

Maybe it’s the execution and understanding that’s changed?

Maybe it’s the way that the message has been delivered that has changed? 

Maybe it’s partly down to confidence and opposition performance too?

Maybe it’s the return from injury or upturn in form of a few players? 

Hoggs interview last week implied that the intent has always been the same. 

10 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I believe I said that in the rest of the post which you snipped off in your quote….

you did sneak that in there didn’t you!, that’ll teach me to read twice!! Apologies

37 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

But we didn’t win them. So the expectation that we would drop too many points for the playoffs proved correct. How do you not get that?

As for “missing the point”…how many times are you going to get facepalmed before you start to realise that maybe the communication problems are all yours and not everyone else’s?

Honestly CR, save your breath!!!

45 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

 

- Did people say Blackburn were shit? Yes, and they were. But that was coupled with people acknowledging we’ve played well so isn’t negative

- Were people treating the result with caution? Yes they were. It was pointed out that we had beaten a poor side and had come off a superhuman Max performance at Sunderland and could have lost vs Leicester so people weren’t saying “we’re great now” - they were looking at the “EBI’s”

 

And on the flip side, there is a similar lack of objectivity from the other side when we get beat. 
 

Edit: SD did say that already, note to self, read twice, post once!! 

It looks like we will surpass last seasons points total and league position with arguably a weaker squad, which like it or not, would be progress. Credit to both managers.

Imagine what could have been had NP been properly supported in the transfer market in the summer after Alex Scott was sold.

45 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The best bit will be the off-season where there will be no results to base anything on but we’ll all carry on anyway!

Yes, but we can (and will) dissect and over analyse every word which comes out of his mouth in interviews just incase he says something we don’t like, something which suits our position (on either side!) or is just a bit boring!! 

Such a crazy league 

Blackburn put 5 past Sunderland 

Sunderland should have put a few past us

Sunderland also go and draw at Leeds

We put 5 past Blackburn

The sad thing is, this tit for tat will go on until either LM gets sacked, or wins us promotion.

A bit of both I expect along with some confidence returning 

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fwiw I’d try to get JKL some minutes, and if ready, give AB a boost by getting him involved in the MD29, but I think the others are quite a way off.

I think it is gonna be interesting to see which players are still “up for it”.

Yep, it’ll soon show if they aren’t up for it given most of the teams we’re playing still have it all to play for.