Dr Balls

1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

Zero energy to debate LM v NP

Thought this was very interesting from today though. 
 

Interesting in the sense that Stoke look like joining Rotherham in League 1 or that 7 of the teams in the lower half of the division won today?

This is the one that ought to worry everyone. Only 3 teams worse than us in the last 10 games and 2 of those are Stoke and Rotherham. 

https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=2&tab=tab-last10

Makes for very grim reading!

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wait and see the reaction if we lose to Cardiff next week..

...The boos rang out vs Norwich in December and there was some pro NP chanting at Manning's first 2 games.

Next season will be the acid test, fans will turn if we're in a relegation scrap come October, November. Especially if backed with money..hierarchy deserve hell.

My biggest fear is that we could still be in a relegation scrap by April. And that Manning is not the coach you need in that situation. 

And just to give a little more insight here, read the last paragraph of when Manning was sacked from MK Dons and then try and align that with the club recruitment policy as stated by Tinnion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63361291
 

1 hour ago, One Team said:

Lose against Cardiff and it’s toxic. Also lose against Swansea and we’ll be calling for his head. 

Lose both the upcoming games against Cardiff and Swansea and this forum will go into meltdown!

By the end of March we could be in that dreadful situation of hoping that we will get just about enough points to avoid relegation and that there are 3 worse teams in this division. Given our recent results against teams near the bottom, I really wouldn’t fancy us in a relegation scrap with Manning in charge. “Mr Motivator” he is not!

Just now, Gaseater said:

“What they did best under the previous manager” - a cracking line that is pure bollocks. 

The tactics from the previous regime were to play on the break and be quick in transition.

Our last 3 wins in the League (Watford, Middlesbrough and Southampton) all have the same common thread through them that we were playing opponents who had the majority of possession, while most of our goals in those games came from quick play/breaks.

And the common thread through our last 10 league games when we have had the majority of possession is that we don’t win, and we frequently lose. But Manning wants the team to play possession-based football, irrespective of whether or not it’s successful with this group of players.

There is of course a phrase about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result…

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

Depends on the numbers doesn’t it - we won’t go down that route of spend spend spend.

So either we let Manning spend a load to bring in more expensive players to play his way but hopefully better and  maybe more successfully or he doesn’t get to spend much and we find that he’s actually not very good at getting the best out of what he has got.

The point is the best coaches and managers get more out of their teams than you might expect from just looking at the names on the team sheet. Do we see any sign of that from Manning so far? No, just the occasional flash of the players doing what they did best under the previous manager, almost irrespective of any game plan from the current head coach.

9 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think he is now at the point where the current squad are struggling to implement what he wants - he needs to be backed with players who can.

No! If he is anything like the coach he is supposed to be, Manning either needs to amend his tactics to suit the players he has or actually improve the players through coaching. Allowing him to bring in his players e.g. Twine on large fees with large wages is just going to get the club into another financial mess.

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Manning: I like him , disappointed that he seems to have stuttered when it matters but I wasn't expecting promotion whosoever was in charge. I don't see this current squad a  Premiership team in waiting but certainly capable of better as some results have indicated. I think Liam will do better as he learns on the job, develops his way of playing and squad  and if he doesn't then we'll find another manager.

Club's decision making? Broadly pretty solid- I'm a big fan of Steve Lansdown and pretty happy where we are in terms of stability, financial and facilities. We are a pretty solid Championship team. Hope for better but there isn't a team in the Championship whose fans don't dream of of promotion at the start of every season- it's why we support.

Chances of promotion "as set by the club". Every single season someone within BCFC will state that the aim is promotion and it always makes me smile but it will be a cold day in hell when someone comes out and says " we're hoping for a good mid-table finish".

Why appoint somebody to the most important role in your business and then accept that he is going to have “learn on the job”? Do you see any sign that he is learning from his mistakes? Or even accepts that he has made any?

The recent league form, even given the 2 wins against Middlesbrough and Southampton is woeful, plus our centre forwards have pretty much stopped scoring from open play since Manning has taken over. The service to them is so lacking, and they have to do so much running and chasing for minimal reward. If I was Conway or Wells, I would be seriously hacked off, because the system being played is so awful for a forward.

And then, assuming that Manning achieves the bare minimum this season (not getting relegated) we are led to believe that in the summer, JL and SL are going to offer him the proceeds of the nest egg to bring in more of “his” players to someone who shows little sign of being able to improve them.

It all feels like an accident waiting to happen, although it won’t be an accident, it will instead be a self-inflicted hobbling of the club by those supposedly “in charge”.

1 hour ago, George Rs said:

True, that’s why I hope he can do something similar here in the summer with relatively good foundations that just lack that spark. 
 

But is the gap that big, I admit I don’t watch league one football unless it’s the playoffs but I would struggle to believe there is a gap of that size? But maybe I’m wrong. 
 

And don’t a better calibre of players make up for that gap? 

The gap between the Championship and League 1 isn’t quite the same as that between the Premier League and the Championship but it’s still considerable. Most promoted clubs struggle in the Championship. Ipswich are the most recent exception but they have an extremely experienced base to their team, most of whom have played at this level in the past.

As for the difference in managers and coaches, again there are quite a few with experience of the Premier League. In fact we just got rid of one of them to be replaced by a relative novice.

So it’s a double whammy for Manning. He’s up against better and more experienced coaches, playing teams with better and more expensive players. Fishes and ponds come to mind with Manning in the role of the minnow now in with the koi carp!

56 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Generous assessment. 
Think Manning needs to rip the coaching manual jargon out of his backside and get on with some proper man management to get these players up for games. 
Im sure we’ll hear all about behaviours and control later, or ‘how we want it to look like’, all utter jargon and absolute nonsense. 
Ah well, now we need to make sure we get another 6 points from somewhere……!!

This all comes back to recruiting a coach who likes being on the training pitch but who is clearly poor as a manager pitchside when his pre-made plans don’t work. He just seems massively naive!

Just now, JP Hampton said:

It is often comments about players performance very little about his own part in it. 

Doesn’t that remind you of another young manager who has achieved nothing really of note before he came here but was massively indulged by the owners getting us into a right financial mess in the process? I really hate to say it, but even under LJ it was frequently better than this. Playing players who aren’t fully fit  to “rest” players who haven’t played for a well? Even the LJ selection tombola had more sense than that!

6 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I picked up on that, referenced learning 3 times…need to learn, want to learn, capable of learning. Nothing like assessing whether your teaching skills are up to it or whether you totally know what you want to teach….

Yes but when your coach also seems clueless then you might suggest that’s the root of the problem. Always easier to blame others…

At the moment I would take anything from 21st and above. Looking over our shoulders rather than looking up the table. Big games coming up and I see nothing from Manning that suggests he knows what to do. 

1 minute ago, Big C said:

He played 26 times for Hull this season. So his availability isn't that bad

And then he came to Ashton Gate…

Even players with no previous injury history can become crocks when they are with us!

5 hours ago, FNQ said:

At half time versus QPR, surely a most exciting managerial appointment should have been able to affect the game more? We weren’t playing Real Madrid. At half time the rest of our entire season was on the line, not that in any way you would have thought so. And I’m not sure that next year will be any more interesting than this one, Burnley, Luton and Sheffield Utd will occupy the top three positions and progressive teams like Hull, Coventry and Sunderland will be in with a shout making up the top 6, we’ll continue to reduce our losses by selling Tommy and JL and BT will still be here spouting the same crap planning for the following season…

This is the recurring concern about Manning. He might be a good coach on the training pitch but that doesn’t mean he is necessarily any good at dealing with tactics and substitutions during a game. He’s a novice at this level but he’s not completely inexperienced. Admittedly he didn’t plan for Bell to pull his hamstring midway through the first half, but that still doesn’t explain the lack of impetus in the second half and then making those 3 substitutions just while we were applying some pressure on QPR.

And the other detail in your table @Davefevs that is very relevant for our upcoming matches is that Cardiff are very effective at scoring from set plays. 

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You can be creative without an Alex Scott!

Using Shelt’s Ipswich example, do they have a creative midfielder, let alone one like Alex Scott?  Nope!  So how come they create chances for their forwards?  

Well you can certainly see that fast and direct is not very successful given that most of those clubs make up the bottom of the table. Our problem would appear to be that we are slow but not very intricate. And if those stats include all our passes back and forth along the back 4, it’s even more damning!

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay I've a theory on the decision to change which is probably rubbish.

Clubs are trying to scramble up before this new 70% vs 85% rule kicks in, possibility of Parachute Payments remaining albeit a reduced gap etc.

The hierarchy twisted to try and get up this season. I dunno...still very hard to make sense of it.

Well if the plan in October really was get rid of Pearson and go for the playoffs, because of the upcoming financial changes, then what we have seen since really has been a failure.

As for the argument that our strikers are rubbish and need replacing, that’s baloney. The problem is the lack of service and opportunities. Our xG is so low, because we create so little. The front players are living off scraps, such as mistakes by the opposition defenders rather than anything delivered by their own team mates. You could have Harry Kane up front for us and he would have trouble scoring given our current playing “style”.

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is the thing I keep coming back to. 

Why can't Manning get the best out of this squad that is a decent squad? Other managers have taken over other teams before and have made them out perform their ability in a short space of time, so why can't Manning do that? 

We're 18 games in with Manning and there is a nagging concern that there is no plan b. 

The QPR game was an interesting one. I think Manning puts far too much emphasis on tactics and not enough on motivational stuff. 

We've shown when we want it we can match anyone. The problem is it felt like QPR wanted it more than us. We can all look at the tactics til were blue in the face but the reality is we just didn't really want it against QPR. I'm not sure if Manning has that motivational factor in his skillset. 

It’s an interesting one, because I would say that the absolute opposite to Manning is our favourite pantomime villain, Warnock. Colin’s tactics are rarely that sophisticated but boy can he motivate a team and that’s what has really brought him repeated success. And the reality is that for all that Guardiola and Klopp might be great tacticians, a lot of their success is down to motivation. You can’t have one without the other.

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree.

These aren’t a group of footballers who’ve been brought up on a staple diet of long-ball / direct football, nor were they playing that under Nige either, so we have capable players already here, imho.  It’s up to Manning to find the best way to win games, which might not be pure-Manning-ball.

Agree and have also suggested the same thing. Can Manning find an approach that suits the players and fits his preferred way of playing? In essence, the style developed under Pearson was based on what he had already and what we could afford. My concern has always been that successful possession-based football requires the best and therefore the most expensive players, which brings us back to why are 3 of the top 4 teams in the Championship playing that way? Because they are the relegated clubs with higher paid players and parachute payments. Trying to beat them at their own game, so to speak, is not very likely and actually our approach against Southampton is a better way to play these teams. I would rather we work out how to beat teams that “park the bus” at Ashton Gate. And that really means more creativity in midfield to play balls through the defence, rather than what your article for the Bristol Post showed, which is a lot of passing round a u-shaped back 4 with little or no intent to go forward. The times we do look more dangerous is when one of the centre backs brings the ball out past the opposition attacker(s) and even their midfield. Suddenly we have options and it causes difficulties for the opposition defence as they are overloaded. It doesn’t have to be Dickie every time, (although I would trust him much more than Vyner, if only because Zak’s passing in tight spaces is so poor) but we need players who are braver on the ball to drive forward and take on the opposition. That’s where we really miss Alex Scott.

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We wasted the summer opportunity to strengthen when Alex Scott was sold.

I still think the Phil Alexander SoTC interview was the beginning of the end for him and Nige.

Its happened, they are both gone, and 4 of the back room staff (Orme was leaving anyway) too.

We are still Bristol City, for me it’s really tough to guess which direction we go as it stands.

+++++

Don't want to really mention recruitment, but we’ve been recruiting to a plan / profile for 2 years now, it’s a profile that shouldn’t really make much difference who is in charge.  But I think that looks like a bit of lip-service as it currently stands.  Hey ho.

@Davefevs do you have a link to the Phil Alexander SoTC interview? If not, what did he say that was so inflammatory to SL/JL or damaging to him and Nige?

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

Although having 25 million plus to spend plus a very healthy wage budget too must also help! 

Imagine if we would have given Nige the Alex Scott money in the summer! 

But will Coventry regret not having a nest egg? Of course they ****ing won’t!

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Had Coventry sacked Robins at his lowest ebb this season, then I doubt they would be back right in the mix for the playoffs. A young and trendy up and coming boss..?

Since he abandoned his long held back 3, 2 PPG and 1 or 2 losses only, in 18 games.

That and losing his 2 best players over the summer, including the top scorer. And he has even got Kasey Palmer looking like a Championship midfielder. Must be a miracle worker!

Twine probably the best option we have at the moment for free kicks, followed by TGH. Unfortunately neither was on the pitch when Nahki launched Bermuda’s entry into the space race!

12 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Yes coming through mate, that could be U14,U16,U18.

Doesn’t mean they are ready available right now. Throwing them in because we want to show our “pathway” would be detrimental for their development. 
Being apart of first team squads and training is exactly what these lads need to get a taste for it and push them on. 
As I said watching the 21s, I wouldn’t say there are any players right now who are readily available or better than the current squad. 

People on here slating Mebude is utterly embarrassing, a young player coming on for 30 mins in a side that was clearly not at it. 
 

You’re telling me that one of our academy lads would have come on and changed the game. People see what they want to see and can spin it anyway they want. 
 

Bottom line is, LM sees these lads every day, you think he would actively snub a young player if they were better than what we have? Seems extremely far fetched to me. 
 

People always so quick to jump on the band wagon because they’re still crying about who’s in charge. The same people after Saints saying how good we are and play offs are still a possibility. 
 

 

Does Manning really see the age groups every day? My understanding is that he is “Head Coach” of the men’s first team. Not quite the same as a manager overseeing the whole club, which is what we had previously. 

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

NP had to play academy players or at least have them on the bench due to a combination of injuries & a lack of investment in recruiting players.

what do people on here want from Manning, try and finish the season in as high a position as possible or to blood young players? If he played young players at the expense of results people would moan. Can’t have it both ways as a fan base, either people want Manning to do his best to deliver results and accept less mins for young players or give him a break on results if it means young players getting game time. 

I don’t think it’s an issue of the fan base wanting one or the other. It’s just that developing and playing young players, particularly from the Academy, is vital to the club’s current financial model. If the club have then brought in a Head Coach who doesn’t buy into the Academy and the lads there then it may have a problem.