Edgy Red

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was on my list before Luton.  Liked him at Wigan before he got converted to CB by Paul Cook, then did well there, and got a move to Luton.

I don't think he's a bad player but when they are all fit, Dickie, Vyner and Atkinson would be ahead of him in my opinion at centre back.

I worry about his recurring injuries and i would guess he's one of the higher earners in the squad.

Naismith is a bit of a strange one for me. I'm not sure he's physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, but i don't think he's mobile enough to play in midfield.

He has had a bit of a strange career really and has played in multiple positions for a number of clubs.

I think he's ok and is useful as a utility option but i wouldn't be hugely upset if he moved on.

His one successful season at Luton maybe clouds peoples judgement?

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Personally I’m not sure what people expected.

It’s a team with a good foundation, but lacking in real quality.  At times, just like all-season, we will have spells of good play, and spells of not so good.  Against the top teams, we will get exposed at times, like tonight, like Leicesters, like Leeds.  But we can stay in games.

All three games have been very representative of the current Bristol City team / squad / ability.  You can make a case for positivity, you can probably do the opposite.

Thank you Dave... a voice of reason!

It will take Manning a few months to put his stamp on the team and recruit a few players of his choice to try and improve things.

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

You have picked the worst possible stats in every case there.

Conway scored 9 in 25 starts & 9 sub appearances in the league last season, that seems pretty good to me for a 20 year old.

54 of Wells appearances for us have been as a substitute, so his minutes to goals puts him around a goal every 3.5 games, again fine.

How many games did Bell start as a striker last season? He only started 14 in total. He scored 4 in his first 11 this season but is definitely in a drought.

This has been covered before Weimann has rarely played as a striker for us, just regularly in one season.

Cornick has been a sub a lot too.

It will cost a lot to bring in a proven forward in January, I’d rather persevere with Conway & hope Wells is back soon.

Mehmeti is a winger.

I applaud your positivity, but sadly our current forwards aren't good enough.

If that team tonight had Semenyo and Kodjia in it, then we would have got something.

I fully appreciate that quality forwards cost a lot of money, but we are lacking at the top end of the pitch.

1 minute ago, stortfordred said:

Trouble is we haven’t got the players to really nail a possession game. Not enough technical players who can play on the half turn. Play a game that’s not suited to your players and you’ll get found out by the top teams. Coaching can go some way to improving things but you need raw talent. NP was experienced enough to cut his cost according to his cloth. Problem is his signings are either not good enough or are injured. Manning has an odd mixture of veterans, youngsters and journeymen. No real real quality cos it’s all gone to the south coast. 

I completely agree, but he needs time to adjust the team to his style of play. He will need to add a few new faces to the group.

Look at what Kompany did at Burnley last summer. He turned a team that had been drilled in to playing direct for 6 years, in to a passing, offensive side. 

Lets give Manning a chance. It may work, it may not, but lets support him

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I tend to agree midtable, think maybe push at top 10 with less injuries ie 10th but..again where would Ipswich be if they traded places with us injury wise. Or a range of sides.

Can't agree. The side had multiple tactical phases under NP.

I won't list them but if you can't see the evolution then.

Thats fine, i completely understand that we all have different opinions.

I just think Manning deserves a fair chance to prove himself and a few transfer windows to recruit some players.

It may work, or it may not, but lets all support our team regardless

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't want to keep dragging the past up cos we are where we are now. 

The expectation was that we were not embarking on another 3 year project and instead made the change to immediately improve. 

At the moment the early signs are that we have gone backwards. Whilst we could go forwards in the future, based on his 1st 3 games surely you can understand that that there are concerns? 

I think it's clear that we disagree. I have said a number of times before that i liked Nige, but i never saw a progression in the way we played over his 3 years. I fully appreciate that he worked under restrictions but the modern game is all about posession and i was never convinced that we were going to move forward under him.

Time will tell if Manning will do any better, but lets all get behind him and support the team.

Our forward options aren't good enough and i really hope Manning is brutal moving forward. 

As good as Weimann and Wells have been, we need to move them on and try to recruit better. Sadly Sam Bell isn't the answer at the moment either.

With a couple of decent forward additions in January, i really do think we could push for the top 10

1 minute ago, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Random question, but when does a player who played for England twice a while ago stop being an england international? I would imagine he isn't going to get any more caps for a good few years

How many players have we got who will ever play for the full England side. Walker-Peters is a very good player

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm sorry but that's not how I saw the game. 

1st half good and positive. Second half we were woeful. 1st half I could see what we were trying to do but after the goal we were clueless. Couldn't keep posession, couldn't string anything together. 

QPR we were woeful, first half V Boro it was dull. Second half we conceded 2 goals but thankfully had enough in us to get the win. 

Manning has had THREE games. Give him a chance and lets see how things pan out. If in 3 years time we are still an average Champ team then he will have done no better or worse than the previous manager

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Kinda difficult to post my opinions without being accused of having an agenda by those that do have an agenda. 

BUT that 2nd half was painful. Came out and conceded and we had no plan B. We had no plan at all. We went from being well coached to not being able to string two passes together. 

Really disappointed as the 1st half was a positive half .

Wow, have i read that right... i think we played pretty well tonight and after just 3 games i can already see what Manning wants us to do which after nearly 3 years i couldn't see under Nige.

We have just competed very well against a Prem team from last season who scored a worldie goal by an England international.

Yes, we were better in the first half but i thought we looked organised throughout and tried to pass the ball as much as we could.

We clearly need a couple of new attacking options but i am very optimistic with Mannings start.

55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I refer to above.

I can only imagine LM likes what he sees both on the pitch and his attitude.

Still 21, very mature player, think he will get better and better.  Good set-piece taker too, both free-kicks and corners - although his delivery today doesn’t get anything (Dickie doesn’t get assist either - I shall boo!)

A snip at £1.3m and even if you add the alleged loan fee of £0.7m in, at £2.0m, that’s a player for the now and the future.

+++++

Slight digression, he was tiring in the last 10-15, but interesting he stayed on and Jamo came off…and Williams gave us exactly what we needed for 7 minutes injury time.

TGH was very good today. Obviously the worldie goal helped, but i thought he was decent in posession and tried to be positive when he had the ball.

He would be a good signing for us in my opinion

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

7 million is a high estimate. However whatever was spent, was spent over FIVE transfer windows. 1.4 per window if your high estimate is correct. With a lot of that small amount being spent in the last window. We've yet to see our most expensive signing(McCrorie) so really we can deduct that off of your 7 million because in the context you are talking in, its unfair to include a transfer spend on a player that hasn't been available to play at all, especially considering the circumstances of his absence. 

Whilst he may have spent 7 million as you suggest he sold Semenyo and Scott for a combined 35 million plus cut the wage bill dramatically.  @Mr Popodopolous is probably more in the know about how much wages have been saved. So whilst you're trying to frame 7 million as being a big amount when you consider it in the wider context then we are still hugely in profit. 

Coventry by comparison brought in 32million and have spent about 25 on transfer fees alone and are below us. We also beat them.

Your post is missing a hell of a lot of context.

Finally, if you didn't notice any difference in the way we played when Pearson took over to when he left, I'd politely suggest that you haven't watched any of our games in that time.

 

Thanks for your (blunt) response.

Your reply to my view is a prime example of why i don't post very often.

I have been supporting City for over 40 years and it is my opinion (shared by a number of others) that the quality of football under Pearson did not improve during his time in charge. I respect your opinion if you feel it did.

I liked Nige and would have supported the team today in the same way as i will for Liam Manning. I will be at the game by the way!

35 minutes ago, pillred said:

I will probably get stick for this opinion, but here goes, I have never hidden my doubts about Pearson, yes he had a bit of bad luck with injuries and losing players but we at times had a team that should have performed better, our results, especially at home have been well disappointing to say the least, I remember when every Sat Geoff Stelling would point out we had not won at home in nearly a year, yes really, he was a BIG name and I think some on here could not get over how "lucky" we were to have him, look overall things did not work out did they, we have now appointed a young manager who I'm sure will bust a gut to prove himself we have had one game under him, did not lose it by the way yet the knives are already out, give the guy a chance ffs if in 6 months it has not worked out then I will hold my hands up, but I have a feeling, at last, we may have the man in charge that can fulfil our hopes for the future.   

I agree with this. I still don't fully get the massive Pearson love in. I understand that the wage bill has been slashed, but other than Scott (who was always going to leave), Semenyo and a fit Kalas, i don't believe he's lost that much talent.

Pearson was given the best part of 7 million to spend during his tenure but i never saw any tangible improvement in the way we played. Yes, he made us fairly sound defensively but we never looked comfortable in posession.

I think Manning has a tough job on his hands but i will support him tomorrow, just as i would if Nige was still in charge.

I agree with Villa Park and Griffin Park. Molineux also has a decent atmosphere tho my last memory there was a 3-0 defeat where flapper Phillips let a back pass roll over his foot!

14 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

How many players do we have that can CONSISTENTLY perform well in the final third?  I’d say none 

I said in another post that we have very little quality at the top end of the pitch.

Tommy is a fox in the box type player but his overall link up play isn't great and he isn't the type of striker that makes chances for himself.

Weimann and Wells sadly have their best years behind them.

Bell is still very raw and although he always gives 100%, he doesn't really have the ability to make things happen. Mehmeti was brought in for that reason but it just hasn't happened for him (yet).

Sykes always does his best but doesn't have a level of consistency and without wishing to single out Cornick, he simply wasn't the player we needed.

For a team that struggles badly in posession of the ball you have to have outlets at the top end of the pitch, whether that is simply some physicality or pace (ideally both).

Manning has a tough job on his hands trying to turn this group in to a progressive passing team, but it can be done.

I liked Nige and thought he did a number of positive things during his time in charge but i have to be honest and admit that i wasn't as devastated by his departure as the majority of our fanbase were.

I'm hoping Manning can get us playing a more fluid posession based game. Nige certainly made us organised but i was never convinced by us from an attacking perspective.

I appreciate that its difficult to find the perfect balance between defence and attack but ultimately i'd like to be entertained when i watch us play.

Manning deserves time to implement his style on the squad and i'm excited to see what he can do.

This could be a very exciting appointment.

The vast majority of successful teams dominate posession and press high and that will be his remit.

I think Nige did some good things during his time but i never felt that the style of football was evolving. We very rarely controlled games with the ball.

I had a season ticket in the late 90's with my Dad and we did a fair few away trips too. Maybe, its an age thing but i enjoyed it more back then.

I may have got this wrong but i'm sure Benny said he would throw his cap in to the crowd after every victory... needless to say the club shop didn't run out of caps that season!

4 minutes ago, 97Red said:

I wasn't at the game today. But the fact we scraped by bottom of the league who had 10 men, tells you all you need to know. This is a mid table squad that Pearson was doing his best to get the most out of. Lansdown is absolutely deluded with his promotion squad statements. 

I think we are a couple of quality attacking players away from potentially being a top 6 side. If we had all of our defensive options available, we have a pretty decent base to work from.

Although we have 7 or 8 forward options, unfortunately they are not good enough.

Whilst Alex Scott is a sensational talent, i believe we miss Semenyo more.

Thanks for posting that list... i had a season ticket in the 90's and was gutted when John Ward left. We had some great moments under Danny Wilson and i was sad to see Cotterill leave.

Weirdly, i'm not feeling the Pearson departure as badly as those i've mentioned above. I'm not sure if thats an age thing or the quality of the football but i'm looking forward to a change.

11 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Not so sure, think Robins stock may have dropped a bit with the money spent and performance this season, although SL always seemed to have a sweet spot for him.

Cov are a good side. They should have been 3-0 up against us in the first 30 minutes and they have played well against West Brom tonight. They have good players and their form will turn.

Mark Robins has done an outstanding job in difficult circumstances and would be a great option for us, but there is very little chance of us getting him.

4 hours ago, Fjmcity said:

Appreciate this thread as long as it stays within the boundaries of your title!

as with everything the truth always lies somewhere in the middle and people have to understand that you will never fully know the truth at each end of the spectrum to truly know that middle part

things we know

1. lansdown silence has been poor, to be MIA and only break cover to sack him feels wrong although find me a football club where the upper management is front and centre and you show me a badly run football club

2. Nige is combative - this is well known and at the end of the day this is a business. No matter how disgruntled you are you mouth off publicly against your boss, it’s not ending well. Chances are Pearson knew the situation, but was impatient and concerned for his own employment so went to the press.

3. David Rennie going too. Did the board have concerns on player management from treatment room to management which could have contributed to the injury crisis?

4. Pearson has done a good job with what he’s been given. But aren’t there still other clubs doing more on less? There is no real footballing culture at city, we are determined and dig in but my god, ask yourself - why does every goal we score feel like a forcep delivery of a 15ib baby? Couldn’t someone else maybe do better?

5. Scott money - clubs need to run sustainably, last time we spaffed transfer money we ended up in this position where we have to retain the Scott/semenyo money. Granted that was through letting Ashton loose with the finances and that is on the lansdowns but wouldn’t you rather they learnt from that?

6. this forum presents a microcosm of our fan base, maybe many who identify with nige and feel him hard done by. But don’t think for a moment he is thinking of us, it’s a job. Where was the support for him before? I go home and away and can’t remember hearing a chant for him. This is because he is functional, there is no impetus behind the team because we don’t play in a way that offers that. We are established championship, not underdogs and we need a little more football to believe in and get excited by.

Im curious to see what happens next, what I fear is the lansdowns have got themselves in a position where they can no longer do right for doing wrong and could be hounded out and it will be out of the frying pan into the fire..

 

 

Excellent post

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He has cut the wage bill by an estimated £11m, brought in £35m or so in transfer fees. Sure he has spent some so that's a gross rather than net figure for the 2nd, that's a huge retrenchment.

8th highest scorers despite just one penalty in 2021-22. Semenyo and Weimann great combination. Granted playing on the break suited us.

It's hard to sum up Lansdown and his current policy exactly given the good points such as infrastructure and past expenditure, always pays bills on time.

Pulling up the drawbridge now just is so infuriating, when we are building a more solid base, fielding youth, trying to evolve the side..not just infuriating but self-defeating which makes it worse. Penny wise, pound foolish in a sense.

A 4-4-2 ish initially rings a bell, a 3-5-2, a 3-4-3 and finally all being well a 4-3-3 of sorts. The side has evolved, get Naismith and a creator in that central 3, get a genuine RB in there, get say well my preference may not be for everyone, Vyner and Atkinson in there as the CB pair and it is transformed.

I don't want to get in to a debate (the Rioja bottle is now empty) but cutting the wage bill isn't solely down to Pearson. I will reiterate that a managers job is to coach the players at his disposal.

I didn't want to turn this in to a Pearson attack but i am just really disappointed by all the negativity aimed at SL.

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

We've been in a huge rebuilding job for team, morale and financially.

The football started IMO improving firstly around Drfrmber 2021. The bottom was reached in the Autumn in some ways, in other ways the early stages of NP in 2020-21.

Some very enjoyable games last season and prior to the injuries starting to bite it's been decent this year. There are huge mitigating factors at play.

I keep hearing about mitigating factors but a managers job is to coach the players he has at his disposal.

This is clearly now Pearson's team and whilst i acknowledge there have been challenges along the way, and we are currently suffering from a terrible spell of injuries, i stand by my comment that the style of football has been largely uninspiring.

I have read post after post destroying Steve Lansdown who has covered huge losses over the past 20 years and yet Nige seems to be the miracle man who can do no wrong.

I have had a few glasses of Rioja tonight but i felt i had to respond to all the criticism that SL has been getting on this forum.

I'm not anti-Pearson in any way but the debate needs some balance!