Bristol Oil Services

To also be fair: 735 Janners at Port Vale. In L2. Bristol to Lincoln: 183 miles; 3 hours 4 mins. Plymouth to the Potteries: 240 miles; 3 hours 54 mins.

Surely we're bigger than them ... er, silly me! What am I thinking? Surely we're bigger than that?

You mention "realistic" there and I think this is the key:- reality (ie that which cannot be denied or fibbed about or dreamed up or manipulated or massaged in the mind: the league table, which does not lie remember) has them wedged between Mk Dons and Shrewsbury, and trailing "the likes of" Wycombe, Fleetwood, Burton and Rochdale. Who wants to dwell on and inhabit that reality, that undeniable, unbearable truth? When you can dream up your own more pleasant, alternative "reality" where your support could be up there with West Ham or Blackburn (imagine imagining your support could be "right up there" with Blackburn!) I know what I would do, if we were wedged between Mk Dons and Shrewsbury, and trailing the likes of Wycombe. ...... and your crowd was smaller than Leyton Orient, of L2, at the weekend.....

There will surely be furious, feverish, frenetic excitement in the heat and the sweat of the Tents this week as they await news of the latest football club going into administration and bankruptcy and they prepare to cry: "Bolton 2019!" along with Southampton 2009!, Chester 2010! Aldershot '92! Accrington Stanley '66! Portsmouth whatever year it was, Rangers 2012!, Huddersfield 2003!, and Leeds/Leicester/Hull, and of course, City 82. Must be exhausting for them, but as we know, fiscal propriety and scrupulous boardroom and administrative conduct is what they are passionate about, known for around the football community and quite simply it is what they do. Along with the other thing what they always do.

What have they ever actually done, you ask? They won the Third Division decades ago. Wow. And they have never "shafted" any players, local businesses, any one or thing ever, like what we did. Rather one day like a lion than 100 years asleep. Or sheep, or something. To be fair - not mandatory on this thread, but hey: let's give it a go - it's more like: rather "about an hour like a lion and the rest of the day a cross between a sloth and a goat than 100 years as Bristol Rovers." Not as snappy, clearly, but it'll do.

Rovers are older than us, too, they were around before us but, crucially, in my opinion, they played safe anchoring themselves in the safe harbour of the Southern League, not having the gumption to go out into the choppy waters of the new-fangled professional national, Northern leagues. Meanwhile, we were the upstart, younger brother that came from nowhere and took the leap into the shark-infested waters out beyond the comparatively gentle Southern League (largely amateur, anti professional. Unlike the northern Football League, ruthlessly professional. Cut throat) blazing a trail. And not only that, but succeeding, gloriously, almost immediately. We cut a dash, for a while. And were inches from glory; we touched greatness, briefly, but it slipped away. We were amongst the big boys. And then we went back there again with a team we made ourselves in the '70s. Rovers have always remained tied to mother's apron strings - taking shelter in the safe harbour of League One and Two, with even a dip back down into the part-time rubbish whence they originated when L2 was too much/rough for them - sucking their thumb, afraid to risk anything more, watching us while we have gone out into the world and tasted some of it's delights and disasters. The delights we enjoyed, they bitterly, and enviously resent; the disasters they revel in. They have no glory of their own to eulogise. They had five or six years in the Second Division in the 1950s where they mixed it with, for them, the big boys, and must've thought their moment had come, but it never happened. Back to mummy ever since. Rovers have never gone bust like us (1982), because they have never gone boom! like us (not that our boom! is anything to write home about, really). They would never dare! They've never had the bottle (the imagination/the audacity/the ambition/the gumption/the delusion). They won't let go of mummy. They like to see it (1982) as evidence of their moral superiority, when in fact their infatuation with our "moral failing" is a defence against their own fearfulness, timidity and sense of inferiority. They are still a Southern League club, at heart. They despise us because they despise themselves and their gutless, pathetic, fearful dependence on the safety of "mummy" and inability to make or even have a bloody good go amongst the big boys, where the glory is to be found. Like we're currently doing (the Championship, now, is a level way beyond anything they have ever experienced). Again. Not that Miah and co will admit this, or even recognise it.

You might also mention City go boom! every now and then, too - like right now; and in the 70s; and long before that - also "impacting on local businesses." Just for balance. You seem somewhat fixated on the bust whilst overlooking the boom - I'd imagine reaching the FA cup final had a positive affect upon "local businesses" not to mention "local" civic prowed and the subsequent impact on the "local" workforce and economy. Likewise, playing in the top division of English football more than once. Do we have the numbers to illustrate the respective "impact on local businesses" of the two Bristol clubs over the last five/fifty/one hundred years? Would that be of any interest to you?

Yes, "was," but I seem to remember being well over it by the time we hammered Blackburn 4:2 about three months later, never mind months later in March '91 (the 5th, wasn't it?) It was hard then but 30 years on, do we really all hanker after another Div 3 title to add to our "honours?" A big deal for them, we walk in bigger shoes than that now though.

I feel quite nostalgic, seeing that. I wouldn't mind a tinpot Bristol Derby again if it meant going there, with room for a decent number of us (ie about half the entire attendance), and a nice boozy, boisterous, noisy march from town up Old Market, then along Stapleton Road for us lot to "announce ourselves". Mind, I'm a bit past all that now. Going to the other places they have begged/borrowed/stolen since, not in the slightest bit interested. Nor them coming to us. They don't deserve to be/belong in a ground like AG now. 1989/90 I remember with great affection. Their run of league dominance was all but over by that game in May '90 (the ninth of ten straight unbeaten league games, I believe) and we achieved what we set out to do in August '89 (it was "go up" never "we must be Third Division Champions: that'll be great for our trophy cabinet"). I went to every game that season. Cherished memories. You could get a good view of the pitch on the Muller Road end, good elevation, and you could barely hear a thing from the Few in the other stand and a half. The Rovers that picture brings to mind I almost remember with some affection, the Bristol Rovers of 2019 are strangers to me now. They could be any little League One club. If it wasn't for this thread I would know nothing about them.......

The official twitter site of the pub league - Van thingy - said on the day of the game the Few had sold 27,000 tickets.

I think by this point Godsiff was sports editor, or some loftier position, with Perry covering them and Latham us. As I remember it. Could be wrong. All so very long ago now (although some things still come to mind easily, clearly....) I'll get down the central library over the summer and check....

To be fair to them, I don't think they actually started all this "tremendous support" fairytale Jackanory silliness. As I remember it now, the E. Post initiated this when they left Eastville - because of not owning their own ground, which was a result of insufficient dosh, which was a result of having shite support (which was a result of having a shite team, which was a result of having shite support. Which was .... etc etc) - and trudged over to Bath - a journey of about 9 miles instead of about 4 from the Few "heartlands" to home games so a massive show of faith there (not exactly Brighton playing in Gillingham). Because everything about Bristol Rovers in 1986 was shite and piss-poor, mundane and about as interesting as Bob Crampton's sex life, the Post felt sorry for them and with nothing good to say about them they came up with the idea that their supporters were in some way "special." "There's always been something special about Bristol Rovers" I seem to remember Peter Godsiff writing at the time*. The sort of thing you might say about one of your always overlooked, very ordinary children just to try and encourage them. But Godsiff failed to specify what it was, unsurprisingly, beyond the "homely" and friendly club it was (ie not successful, and not likely to be), and eventually he and the Post settled upon the support being "special," something they absorbed and came to believe themselves. It's no use pointing out that their crowd was only just over 4k in the last year at Eastville, fewer than what we were getting in the 4th division when we were 92nd for a while. Or anything about their support that is at odds with the "special" narrative. The belief is firmly embedded, over decades now, and the confirmatory evidence is there to be cherry-picked, and the inconvenient facts, the mundane reality, to be firmly dismissed and ignored. You are wasting your time arguing with believers over stuff like this. That going from Eastville to Trumpton was an upgrade - no joking here; Rovers 3k at cavernous Eastville or 3k in tight Trumpton? They could, almost, fill (well, one side) the latter, never the former - certainly no great humbling of once glamorous high-achievers accustomed to more grandiose surroundings, no great step-down, and was barely any different to go from East Bristol to this side of Bath, and they started showing up again when they had a winning team (like any crowd, so therefore: not special), didn't come in to it. Rovers were shite and leaving their shite ground that they didn't own and couldn't fill and it was sad, and they were pathetic, and they needed cheering up/encouraging, and the Post had papers to sell, so let's make something up: their fans are "special" (and please keep buying the Evening Post). The "special" genie was out of the bottle. And the infatuated Few were not of a mind to attempt putting it back in. From this you get all the "thousands locked out" and "39000" at Wembley (when it was 27k tickets sold, according to Vanarama twitter) and "we'd take more than Arsenal and Chelsea combined" magical thinking. But don't blame them: pity is more appropriate. Blame the Post, and Peter Godsiff. He did this out of pity; pity and keen journalistic business sense. So pity - and not pointing out facts - is the correct response to Fewers claiming "special" status. "Yes, yes mate: you are so special. So, so very special." "More than Chelsea and Arsenal, yes mate. You would." "Thousands locked out, I know. I remember." "3 thousand for the last game at Eastville....sorry! What am I saying? 44 thousand to Wembley, yes, pretty 'special' that" etc etc. *at this point, mid 80s, Rovers had, I think, been promoted twice and relegated twice, in their league history. All between the 2nd and 3rd division. No top flight football, no 4th division football. No Cup semi final appearances. One England player, earning one cap. Poor crowds in a dismal ground, with dogs running around it. In other words: the epitome of nothing special. Dull, dull, dull. Probably explains the decision to go with the unusual/comedy kit: the only way anyone outside of Bristol would ever notice or remember them. Nothing they do on the pitch has or will achieve this. Clearly, this is not a "special" football club, if we are to be adults about this and not children, and so the folly shifts to the idea that the tragic 3k with nothing better to do that now trudge to Bath instead of Eastville - any City fans travelling in from Weston travel twice as far - are themselves "special." And this is still with us today, and there's nothing we can do about it now. We'll just have to live with being the better club and team. With more people turning up for games. We'll never be "special" like them.

The climax to 1990 was "two bald men fighting over a comb," to quote Jorge Valdano. Well, to be fair to us, one bald bloke (Rovers), and one Bobby Charlton/Ralph Coates (us).

So speaks a fan of a mundane, lower league club. "Hartlepool" and "Hereford," mate; you've said it all there. And you can throw "Bristol Rovers" in with those two. Pitiful. Hasn't it ever been thus in Bristol - the low/zero ambition/appetite for challenge, we-know-our-place blue few consumed with derision and bitter resentment for the ambitious/deluded, ever-dreaming-big upstart south of the river (but secretly wishing for some of what we have achieved, and continue to strive for), never quite accepting our "place"? If Spurs have "The Game is about Glory" writ large at their ground, what would the Rovers equivalent be? The Game is about ..... ?

Thing is, they went up, and we went up. Promotion was what we desired in August 1989, not being "Third Division Champions." A big deal for them, no doubt, but third tier "honours" don't exactly float our boat. I would prefer to forget every season we have played at that level (no-one outside of Bristol takes any notice of us at that level). Rightly or wrongly, deluded maybe, we see ourselves as a bit above that piss-poor division (having more often than them, literally, been above that) It didn't do them any long term good, going up that year, anyway.

It was 42000 we took, v Walsall. And Rovers had sold 27000 tickets for their non-league kickabout at Wembley, source: the Vanarama twitter site, on the day of their game v whoever FC. City: 42,000 Rovers: 27,000 Try and remember these numbers, people.

Tomlin, on loan, played a key role in keeping us up. He was the quality we were desperately in need of. The free-kick winner at Fulham was critical, and brilliant. What a moment. Johnson will never forget the lesson learned from signing Tomlin, despite his reputation. A learning experience for a young coach no amount of visits to European clubs for personal development could ever come close to matching. Lee came through the toxic, corrosive Tomlin season, binning individual talent and turning to team spirit and effort (with Matty Taylor), and we came through it, and both our much the wiser, and stronger, for it. The morons jeering last night are clueless.

Would Birmingham notice if he was managing Bristol Rovers?

How to depict, visually, someone as thick, comical and inept. And the costume department nailed it in one (football top).

It's a stupid, disproportionate, unrealistic game largely unrelated to life outside the "bubble" (and yet some people are surprised and upset at the reaction of some supporters to it, ie, that they "moan" a lot, and expect a lot/too much, and are not proportionate and realistic etc). Funny old game/world!

Be in the moment, Rum. Tis all we have, little moments (tomorrow can wait) of pleasure...

I can't wait until we mark our tin pot league win ..... in December 2044. See you up Whitchurch Sports Centre (if it's not under the sea by then, global warming and all that). Flinty, Frankie, Waggy, Joe B, Korey, Packy, Albie, Pembo, all the lads are coming - but Cotts only if he stops sulking (and tells us all what really happened, Aug 15) and Ayling, only if behaves himself and doesn't spend the evening looking at blokes todgers and laughing. Not in Whitchurch. Apologies: Cunningham and Freeman, washing their hair; and JET'll be chilling up London. Jon L hopes to be there to represent his father, RIP, but might have to attend a Europa League Winners club owner annual meeting to discuss the latest breakaway/pulltheladderup league in Beijing.

"Rovers have to up themselves" says some bloke called "Keith" on local radio Bristol. I think they are more than capable of this.

One nil down, two one up..... Apparently, this is an "upset" ?

Correct. Wael has plenty of money to spend in November, December, February and March. And April. Just not in January. Or June/July/August.