Capman

Based on nothing more than the assertion that things were ‘starting to go sour’. Personal opinion, which is after all what a forum is for. You might note that I prefixed my statement by making it clear it was a personal opinion, not the same as the statement about things ‘going sour’ which was seemingly presented as ‘fact’. I think Pearson was showing plenty of promise to take us to the next level. He had created a decent team on a shoestring and generated a war chest of tens of millions which, with the right backing, could have created a great team. We have seen since he left that his squad, when given their head, can perform against the best opposition. Personally I would rather trust a manager with a good track record to spend the money Pearson and Gould harvested. We have adopted a different approach. We will have to see how that goes.

I don’t recall him saying he would not accept a new contract? In fact just the opposite. There was no need to change and the consequences for that change rest with those who made it. I certainly do not agree that things were ‘going sour’. In fact my view is that without this change we would still be in contention for the playoffs.

Expectation weighs heavy I suspect. Play a team you are expected to beat and be told to play a certain way to do it life becomes complicated and players lose confidence. Play with no expectation you revert to your core skills and methods and life becomes less difficult and complicated. Maybe there is something to be said in telling good players to ‘go out and enjoy yourselves’. Let them work it out for themselves.

The real question which the board need to answer is why we are even seeing these kind of discussions rather than a discussion about what we need from the last 10 games to push ourselves into the top 6.

I agree with that summary by the way. NP should certainly be reflecting on his own responsibilities to build relationships, but ultimately that is not the supporters problem. The supporters, I suspect, want an experienced manager who can build a successful team. They do not need over delicate egos (in the board room or the dug out) thinking they are more important than getting points on the board and getting the team promoted.

For me context is everything. Those who say we need to ‘move on’ are missing the point. Pearson was fired because he was an experienced manager prepared to speak footballing ‘truth’ to an establishment who did not want to listen as it was not something they were wanting to hear. I agree, Manning is inexperienced and should normally be given more time. Problem is, if he is and by some miracle learns lots and learns it fast he will simply be an experienced manager who speaks truth to an establishment who do not want to hear it. The outcome of that is likely to simply be Deja vu. Unfortunately I think we have an establishment who are unprepared to face the challenging nature of climbing out of the championship and until that changes it really doesn’t matter who is in the head coach seat. The club just does not have the ambition.

Broadly speaking I agree with the view that it’s time for Steve to go. But really this is about employing competence around him. I cannot believe he built his own business without employing the best, listening to what they had to say and following their advice. Why do people think football is so different? Every time someone is at the club and challenging the non footballing establishment they quickly disappear to be replaced by a yes man. To listen to Jon Lansdown talk about conditioning of football players as if he knows more than a hugely respected medical professional with decades of experience is perhaps the most recent and most obvious example. Steve could not sell, but employ the best people money can buy and get rid of the self important amateurs, and his investment would be more secure. Problem is that will require a difficult conversation with Jon. So if he cannot stand up to Jon then I agree, he needs to move on. It’s not their football club, it’s the club of the city and the supporters. It cannot become a family plaything.

True, I’m just not convinced that pace and intensity are as expensive skills in a footballing sense as the skill of playing possession football. How many defenders can you think of who have the skill to do it constantly and effectively? Particularly as, when the defenders get it wrong the opposition are through on goal. But I am the first to admit, I have never played football at a reasonable level and have no coaching badges so I could turn out to be wrong. I’m just happy to get the views of others. So do you feel there is no cost issue with the approach to style of play? Or could it be that collecting the right squad may be more expensive for different styles?

I have been wondering about this. Playing the Man City way requires players of the highest levels of technical skill. They are players who are going to cost considerably sums of money, something we have repeatedly failed to spend. Within a world of FFP and parachute payments I am remain unconvinced that as a strategy it is likely to be successful. How can City attract the players with the highest levels of technical ability to play the ‘beautiful’ game? Surely a high intensity, counterattack strategy which is about pace is much more likely to be practical for a club seeking to reach the premier league for the first time? It’s almost as if the previous manager understood football!

Position is pretty simple. We bought in a manager who we were told would coach the top 6 squad up the league as it was underperforming under the previous regime. We were 4 points off the playoffs at the time and many, myself included, thought we stood a reasonable chance of pushing on and finishing well into the top ten with an outside chance of the playoffs. We are now 13 points off the playoffs which are out of reach for this season. We are 6 points from the relegation zone and dropping closer to it all the time. The board lied to us about the squad, they lied about the old manager and lied about his replacement. They have taken the supporters for mugs, treated us with absolute contempt. They have taken the money for tickets and the rest and then lied to us in return. Steve needs to step up and Jon and Brian need to be gone. You simply cannot run an organisation where its management has nothing but contempt for its loyal customers. Manning is a symptom of the problems at Ashton Gate, he is not the cause. I am sure Manning will go, and probably soon, but until the wider issues are addressed, nothing will really change.

So are you saying that the changes in management we have seen in the last 12 months have been good and the club is going in the right direction?

The table doesn’t lie. When he arrived to take over a squad which was ‘underperforming under the previous regime’ we were 4 points off the playoff’s. A win tomorrow eases concerns about relegation for the current season. Not sure that people should really see that as a ‘good’ outcome. So sorry but for me a win tomorrow would just be incredible thin paper over enormous cracks which are widening by the game. The question that needs to be asked is does the current club management at all levels have the knowledge, skill and motivational ability to recruit wisely across the summer, get a team playing well and guide it into the top 6 next season? Nothing I have seen so far suggests it does. In fact I have to say if the management does not change the only way I see City out of the championship is through the trapdoor. Oh how I would love to be proved wrong!

I agree, and that is what makes the whole thing so depressing. Maybe the supporters need to act and demand change at the top to force Steve’s hand. It would be great to see the crowd make a statement, not turning up would be probably the most powerful. I imagine that Steve would feel forced to change if the ground was empty for the next home game (apart from away fans). But short of being able to arrange that I don’t see what we can do. The club has treated us with contempt, but as long as we take it I agree they will continue to do so.

Steve is ultimately the owner and needs to step up to now. There is a line you cross when you choose to deliberately lie to people and JL and BT crossed that line when they sacked Pearson. It may be that Steve thinks it’s ’his club’ but it isn’t. If the fans stop coming his investment is down the pan. By lying about the reasons for Pearson going the board and BT took the supporters for mugs. They treated us with utter contempt. The only solution now is for Steve to step in and tell Jon his time as chairman is up. They can save face by citing other business interests, but until there is a change at that level this mess does not change.

I think it’s becoming clear that Jon thought it was a bottom 6 squad and just needed the manager to get us there.

I feel like this has been done to death already but one of the things which astonishes me is the ineptitude of the senior management at the club over our ‘style of play’. The board were clear, we have top end league players and are a top end league club. All that was needed was a new manager with the ability to coach ‘on the grass’ to get the best out of those players. And (for the first time ever they seemed to suggest) they knew exactly what that meant when looking for someone. So they go out and appoint someone who wants to change the style of play to one which does not suit the top end squad he has at his disposal. It is the kind of unthinking stupidity which should get any leader a quick trip to the job centre. Does that help answer the original question, sorry I don’t think it does. But in my view it is the basic reason we are in this mess. We have no idea what we are trying to do because we have a board which makes decisions based on non footballing criteria and then panics to try and fix the mess that creates generating more panic and confusion. Within that coalition of chaos any manager and squad would struggle to build anything. But a young inexperienced manager has no hope.

I think we all know the answer to that. The ‘establishment’ at the club would rather fail than be challenged by someone who understands football. They will lie and fail in order to protect their egos. No class, no ambition, no respect for the club.

No if I were JL or BT I would actually be considering my own position and writing my resignation. But then, that’s just me. Manning was a manager bought in to manage a squad not set up to play the way he wanted to play, but where the fan base was told he would get them into the top 6. He is not up to the job, and not in the same class as his predecessor. But ultimately the responsibility for this mess rests elsewhere.

When times are tough you need professionals who want to play for you. Sorry but I don’t see Manning inspiring that kind of commitment. The best players are more likely to be dusting off their CVs, looking to move elsewhere.

Manning is a symptom. The problem is in the boardroom.

Jon does not ‘own’ the club Steve does. It is for Steve to decide what he wants to do I agree. If not upsetting Jon is more important to Steve than the success of the club then he will leave Jon in place and allow him to trash the Lansdown legacy. But here is the thing, Jon can go as Chairman and Steve still own the club. If the Lansdown’s value their legacy they need to recognise that JL is not the man to lead the club forward. Jon can easily step aside, citing other business interests, appoint a new chairman, without the owners having to sell. But leaving JL in charge will not, in my view, change the narrative. The club need someone else to lead them out of this mess. If Steve values his investment now is the moment to embrace that reality.

There is nothing I detest more than dishonesty. JL told us that they were making a change because we were underperforming on the pitch with the squad we had and a change in the dugout would make that right. If he lied about the squad, he needs to go. If he was right about the squad, but picked the wrong manager he, Manning and Tinnion all need to go. But for me there is no acceptable outcome which leaves JL as chairman. He needs to go. He has treated all fans as fools. He lied to us, and that can and will never be acceptable.

I am not really bothered if he stays or goes. If the current establishment sack him they will only replace him with someone who looks the same. He is not the ‘problem’ he is a symptom. We have a board who are not up to the job, until that changes things will stay much the same.

The buck stops with Jon. He created the mess and needs to be gone.

We need to be clear where the buck stops. Jon (it’s my club) Landsdown made the call to sack an experienced manager who had turned the club around, because he has no idea whatsoever about football and how to get promotion to the premier league. Yes Manning is not up to the job and should not be head coach, of course Tinnion is a yes man who should have more self respect and not pander to the establishment. But nothing changes until the chairman changes. JL needs to go, tonight would be good, tomorrow would be acceptable, next week would be too late. If that means Steve wants to sell so be it. This fiasco has run too long already.