Capman

Manning out yes, but it’s not the long term answer. Jon has to step down as Chairman and BT needs to be demoted too. I suspect there is some very difficult musical chairs needed over the next few weeks if we are to have any chance of promotion next season. The current structure and people are absolutely not fit for purpose. 
Personally if I were Steve I would announce King to manage to end of the season, Jon had decided to stand down as chair to pursue his other business interests but would stay on the board and the search was on for a new Chairman who would lead the recruitment of a new manager. 

They say a fish rots from its head. When a board think it is fine to lie to supporters and treat them as fools the whole club is clearly out of control. 
Steve, you have spent a considerable sum on this club but your legacy is now becoming embarrassing. Do something, change the chairman, change the board and acknowledge the horrendous mistakes which have been made this season. It is almost too late already. 

5 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Yes this is where I am with it aswell surely the players also have to take responsibility for not being able to play a 2 yard pass ? Or track a runner ? Or be committed in the challenge? I think players get away with so much nowadays there professional championship footballers all earning around £700,000 per year for christ sake how easy do they want it ? It's so self entitled I'm not saying manning isn't to blame but let's also look at these precious footballers aswell.

In the end I am not sure the money matters that much. We have probably all had managers who made us believe and managers who turned us off. I well recall a new boss arriving once and making some absurd speech about drawing a line in the sand and how we could cross it or not and he would know and respond. I (and most of my colleagues) just thought he was an idiot who had no idea. There is no question at all that he made me worse at my job, because I had no idea what he wanted. It was like trying to find 5p on the floor of a massive dark room. 
If the players don’t believe they will play worse. And the fact that Manning throws them under a bus after every loss won’t help. 

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Isn't that what we had in place at the start of the season? We'll Tinnion aside. 

Golden boy then decided he wanted to be more hands on with us again and then decided to rip all that up. 

Exactly. Things were going just fine until Pearson went. The ship had been stabilised, the funds had been raised and we could start to think promotion was possible. Then presumably Pearson told Jon to stick to what he knows and leave the football to those who understand it and he had to go for the impertinence. The problem is that I cannot see many experienced managers wanting to come here. The word will be out, no ambition, just don’t upset the owners. Who needs that on their CV? 

Problem is selling is not likely to be quick or easy. 
So in the short term we may be stuck with Steve. I also think it’s unfair to say Steve never appoints good people. The problem is good people do get appointed (Cotts, Alexander, Gould, Pearson) but they don’t survive because when the going gets tough the board prioritise their own egos over the needs of the club. 
If Steve left Jon on the board but appointed a good chairman, and made it clear that professionalism, experience and delivery were to be respected at all levels things would be fine. But as long as the top priority is not to upset Jon the whole thing is going nowhere. 
What amazes me is the Steve would never have run his own business like this. He made his money respecting those who know what they are doing, why can he not ensure the football club is run the same way?

4 minutes ago, Granty said:

MyselAf and 3 others will not be renewing for exactly this, it's with an extremely heavy heart this decision has been taken.

 

Supported since late 70s and season ticket for 20 years, I will continue to support from afar but not lining their pockets in the assumption I'm happy with the running and direction of the club.

The life has slowly been sucked out the club and matchday experience is dreadful, no excitement or buzz, waking up Sat buzzing to get down the gate, seeing mates, few beers and enjoying the footy, it's frankly become a chore, and an expensive one at that.

 

I know my protest will not hit them hard but it's my only option of "two fingers" to the current hierarchy

Good for you. I have a fairly simple view of life, I am not going to support people who lie to me. Why would I give money to those who deceive?
The board lied about the reasons for the changes they have made this year, I don’t trust them and refuse to give them money to reward their dishonesty. 
Steve needs to get off his backside and do something, but at the moment I don’t think they appreciate how angry lots of people are. Hopefully good people making a stand will make that clear to them. 

40 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Roy speaks... 

 

Maybe Roy could report that plenty of supporters are very disappointed with the performance of the board and would like the chairman gone? 

Did the board not say we had a bottom 6 squad we just needed the right manager to get us there? Or did I mishear that? 

It seems fairly obvious to me but I suspect that the whole club has no idea how to ‘manage’. The job of a proper football manager is to get the best out of the players, build their confidence, play a system which suits how they like to play, know when they need an arm round the shoulder and when they need a flare up the backside. It’s pretty clear the board did not know how to manage Pearson (or come to that Johnson or Cotts before him). We now have a playing management structure where no one seems to know how to manage the players. There are a significant number of individual players where we saw real progress over the last couple of seasons, Vyner, Pring, O’Leary, Scott etc. I have not seen much progress in the players over the last few months. In fact I think a number have gone backwards. That not only has short term implications on the pitch but longer term on our ability to raise money through player sales and improve the club. All very depressing but a reflection of the current state of Bristol City FC.

9 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

I think the fact the manager was sacked is a pretty clear indication that things had gone sour. Based on niges interviews in the lead up It wasn’t exactly out of the blue was it 

:laugh: only if you judge the well being of the entire football club on the view of the chairman. A view which seems somewhat flawed. 

2 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

we would be fighting for playoffs Based on what? the capitulation based on the same data set from last season seems to suggest we wouldn’t be 

Based on nothing more than the assertion that things were ‘starting to go sour’. Personal opinion, which is after all what a forum is for. You might note that I prefixed my statement by making it clear it was a personal opinion, not the same as the statement about things ‘going sour’ which was seemingly presented as ‘fact’. 
I think Pearson was showing plenty of promise to take us to the next level. He had created a decent team on a shoestring and generated a war chest of tens of millions which, with the right backing, could have created a great team. We have seen since he left that his squad, when given their head, can perform against the best opposition. Personally I would rather trust a manager with a good track record to spend the money Pearson and Gould harvested. We have adopted a different approach. We will have to see how that goes. 

17 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

He was always going to leave at the end of the season and we needed something more long term. Why not now (October) because things were starting to go sour

 

I don’t recall him saying he would not accept a new contract? In fact just the opposite. There was no need to change and the consequences for that change rest with those who made it. 
I certainly do not agree that things were ‘going sour’. In fact my view is that without this change we would still be in contention for the playoffs. 

Expectation weighs heavy I suspect. Play a team you are expected to beat and be told to play a certain way to do it life becomes complicated and players lose confidence. Play with no expectation you revert to your core skills and methods and life becomes less difficult and complicated. Maybe there is something to be said in telling good players to ‘go out and enjoy yourselves’. Let them work it out for themselves. 

The real question which the board need to answer is why we are even seeing these kind of discussions rather than a discussion about what we need from the last 10 games to push ourselves into the top 6. 

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

And I know you can make the case @Capman  makes above about speaking truth to power. And I don’t argue with that. But there are ways of doing that. And doing it in a way that ends up with a complete breakdown of the relationship isn’t the way.

I agree with that summary by the way. NP should certainly be reflecting on his own responsibilities to build relationships, but ultimately that is not the supporters problem. The supporters, I suspect, want an experienced manager who can build a successful team. They do not need over delicate egos (in the board room or the dug out) thinking they are more important than getting points on the board and getting the team promoted. 

7 hours ago, reddogkev said:

So, Manning is not a coach I would have hired and its fair to say he's been a mixed bag so far.  Some great wins, good cup performances and already has a string of crap losses to his name.  He seems to have a lack of consistency at the moment.  

But looking at things in a different way, with this being his first stint at Championship football and the fact he's young and inexperienced, he's bound to be developing and should be much better next season.  What are the chances of him being the right man to drive the club on?

I remain confident that If we approach the remaining ten games like last night, we'll still be in the Championship, although we need to beat Swansea on Sunday to ease the concern.

When it comes to Manning, right now, I want him to show more passion and develop some character, and after a defeat, take the loss on the chin, admit his own mistakes, and stand up for the team no matter what.

For me context is everything. Those who say we need to ‘move on’ are missing the point. 
Pearson was fired because he was an experienced manager prepared to speak footballing ‘truth’ to an establishment who did not want to listen as it was not something they were wanting to hear. 
I agree, Manning is inexperienced and should normally be given more time. Problem is, if he is and by some miracle learns lots and learns it fast he will simply be an experienced manager who speaks truth to an establishment who do not want to hear it. The outcome of that is likely to simply be Deja vu. 
Unfortunately I think we have an establishment who are unprepared to face the challenging nature of climbing out of the championship and until that changes it really doesn’t matter who is in the head coach seat. The club just does not have the ambition. 
 

Broadly speaking I agree with the view that it’s time for Steve to go. But really this is about employing competence around him. I cannot believe he built his own business without employing the best, listening to what they had to say and following their advice. 
Why do people think football is so different? Every time someone is at the club and challenging the non footballing establishment they quickly disappear to be replaced by a yes man. 
To listen to Jon Lansdown talk about conditioning of football players as if he knows more than a hugely respected medical professional with decades of experience is perhaps the most recent and most obvious example. 
Steve could not sell, but employ the best people money can buy and get rid of the self important amateurs, and his investment would be more secure. Problem is that will require a difficult conversation with Jon. So if he cannot stand up to Jon then I agree, he needs to move on. It’s not their football club, it’s the club of the city and the supporters. It cannot become a family plaything. 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City don't play like Man City and are not attempting to. 

In regards to your point about high intensity, pace and counter attack would this not also require players that are highly skilled? Intensity and pace are skills. 

 

True, I’m just not convinced that pace and intensity are as expensive skills in a footballing sense as the skill of playing possession football. How many defenders can you think of who have the skill to do it constantly and effectively? Particularly as, when the defenders get it wrong the opposition are through on goal. 
But I am the first to admit, I have never played football at a reasonable level and have no coaching badges so I could  turn out to be wrong. I’m just happy to get the views of others. So do you feel there is no cost issue with the approach to style of play? Or could it be that collecting the right squad may be more expensive for different styles? 

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

I rather thought that Ipswich, with their squad, and results this season demonstrated that the way Manning wants to play is not the only way to play and be successful. Indeed, you can add Luton last season too. Both non-parachute payment clubs, both being fast in transition and creating disruption. We did that too, to Luton last season, if anyone recalls. 

So why did someone think that playing like Man City with our mid-table budget was the way forward? Even when you have PP, get promoted and get battered like Burnley, because when you have a £50M advantage at our level, you can maybe do it, but when you are promoted, you are then a small fish. 

Reality, pragmatism and not idealistic dreams are needed. McKenna is proving to be all of that and a very talented coach. 

I have been wondering about this. Playing the Man City way requires players of the highest levels of technical skill. They are players who are going to cost considerably sums of money, something we have repeatedly failed to spend. Within a world of FFP and parachute payments I am remain unconvinced that as a strategy it is likely to be successful. How can City attract the players with the highest levels of technical ability to play the ‘beautiful’ game? 
Surely a high intensity, counterattack strategy which is about pace is much more likely to be practical for a club seeking to reach the premier league for the first time? 
It’s almost as if the previous manager understood football! 

Position is pretty simple. We bought in a manager who we were told would coach the top 6 squad up the league as it was underperforming under the previous regime. 
We were 4 points off the playoffs at the time and many, myself included, thought we stood a reasonable chance of pushing on and finishing well into the top ten with an outside chance of the playoffs. 

We are now 13 points off the playoffs which are out of reach for this season. We are 6 points from the relegation zone and dropping closer to it all the time. The board lied to us about the squad, they lied about the old manager and lied about his replacement. They have taken the supporters for mugs, treated us with absolute contempt. They have taken the money for tickets and the rest and then lied to us in return. 
Steve needs to step up and Jon and Brian need to be gone. You simply cannot run an organisation where its management has nothing but contempt for its loyal customers. Manning is a symptom of the problems at Ashton Gate, he is not the cause. I am sure Manning will go, and probably soon, but until the wider issues are addressed, nothing will really change. 

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I can't see the logic.

In the past two decades SL has never been trigger happy and never sacked a full time contracted manager with less than 25 games in charge. As it stands ( and things can change either way) we are not in the relegation zone and unlikely to become so. People wanting us to lose so that LM gets the chop is silly and ,for some, seems to be a matter of proving they were right at any cost to the club. IMO, of course.

So are you saying that the changes in management we have seen in the last 12 months have been good and the club is going in the right direction? 

The table doesn’t lie. When he arrived to take over a squad which was ‘underperforming under the previous regime’ we were 4 points off the playoff’s. A win tomorrow eases concerns about relegation for the current season.
Not sure that people should really see that as a ‘good’ outcome. 
So sorry but for me a win tomorrow would just be incredible thin paper over enormous cracks which are widening by the game. 
The question that needs to be asked is does the current club management at all levels have the knowledge, skill and motivational ability to recruit wisely across the summer, get a team playing well and guide it into the top 6 next season? Nothing I have seen so far suggests it does. In fact I have to say if the management does not change the only way I see City out of the championship is through the trapdoor. Oh how I would love to be proved wrong!

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

The problem is, Steve isn't going to step away far enough to let a new (real?) Chairman do his job properly. With Jon there he is , or seems , just an extension of Steve's ideas . I would be surprised if any decision of note wasn't talked through with Dad . The day to day will be fine , but it's going to be discussed.
For an effective new Chairman to come in , SL would have to let him get on with his job, he didn't even let the last CEO do that. 

To get us on track again we need a new Chairman and CEO minimum , I'd add DoF and send Tins back to the Academy / loans manager .

I agree, and that is what makes the whole thing so depressing. Maybe the supporters need to act and demand change at the top to force Steve’s hand. 
It would be great to see the crowd make a statement, not turning up would be probably the most powerful. I imagine that Steve would feel forced to change if the ground was empty for the next home game (apart from away fans). But short of being able to arrange that I don’t see what we can do. The club has treated us with contempt, but as long as we take it I agree they will continue to do so. 

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

The more I think about it, the angrier I get regarding his appointment. 

We've gone for a 38 year old, with less than 4 years experience in any senior position,of first team football, at far less a level than what we are at. He's only coached 164 senior games to date.  And averages 8 months in a job. 

From NP who's got vast amounts of experience, to this...

They want to get rid of our experienced players as well. 

How the hell do JL and BT think this will ever work?

They seriously can't be that inept at footballing judgement at this level? If they are...then **** me

I personally believe it's to make their position easier. 

Well imo...they've made it worse for themselves. Who's gonna trust these idiots? 

Steve is ultimately the owner and needs to step up to now. There is a line you cross when you choose to deliberately lie to people and JL and BT crossed that line when they sacked Pearson. It may be that Steve thinks it’s ’his club’ but it isn’t. If the fans stop coming his investment is down the pan. 
By lying about the reasons for Pearson going the board and BT took the supporters for mugs. They treated us with utter contempt. 
The only solution now is for Steve to step in and tell Jon his time as chairman is up. They can save face by citing other business interests, but until there is a change at that level this mess does not change.