Rob26

more fun at wba https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/furious-west-brom-shareholders-take-27067996

cheers lads, thought we should be well in after last season, but nice to have some rough numbers to see roughly where we at anyways

yeah they would have to pay way more to go longer, the quality of lender would be 10-20% based on what you see other clubs being touted at paying and think they may be in he middle plus of that range with less security to offer them

well at least the loan not as bad as being touted for them, and I can't see anyone offering better rates on that loan, and if did restructure it they would only have it go up as the risk increased and the term was dragged out too, but people will pay to benefit cashflow. would they even of got the loan if they were prepared to loan themselves that amount of cash? seems daft when you could save yourself so much money doing so, seems like they already drew the line in the sand and that's why they got the loan in the first place. They just wrote off 200m I think when you hear these sort of stories about the numbers I think they may look to move it on to someone else, epically if they don't bounce back do any of you have any numbers for my club Middlesbrough where we are looking for FFP allowance to spend this season :laugh:, few of us wondering what the potentials are for spends

yeah he made them cling on to players that they would of cashed in on and buy older players as well that have next to no sell on value, causing the financial crush they having now

yeah I think this year they are probs fine this season to manage financially, but next season who do they sell on to make the deficit, think they have a single shot to go up and then are at risk of slipping hard, they can refinance the loan, but we have seen a trend that these vulture companies want payments made while the epl money is still being paid to them. so not sure how much longer they would get to pay off the 8x£19m payments I think they have left to make, maybe still possible tho but at what interest rate, I bet its 10% ish now, so for the extra risk and term length that could possibly double they have an expected turn over of 70m this up coming season they owe 76m in 3rd party loan payments next season, and think season after. so that's this season -6m before wage and any other costs they will obv have some incomes from past sales but bet some of that is offset with transfer instalments they owe themselves they also have massive out goings too, wage bill alone last season was 180m, with many thought to no be on relegation reduction clauses, sales should bring this down alot but it will still be mental for the championship as they can sell players to reduce the wage bill, but that will involve paying off a good chunk of peoples contracts as well. I think they will bring in circa 100m from sales, but could come in less as apart from the highest in demand players with them being relegated then they will have their value cut than if they sold them in the premier league, especially when its clear to see from the outside their numbers are not adding up were they not also on a uefa FFP watch list, so will be under some FFP scrutiny too by the EFL recruitment and management is the key here I think, and they been lacking in both lately, recruitment decision making on sales and purchases not been the same since the dad died, and seen on a few forums that some staff members have said the son understandably just isnt into it the same as he was when his dad was here and him and people helping him are not making the right decisions or continuing with what got his dad the success they had, which was always sell high buy low, they missed the boat on several players who are now out of contract which would of gave them the money to probs avoid relegation and this loan., chasing short term gains

I think sales may well cover these items and they can always get more financing to restructure that debt, they will probs sell people on to hack that wage bill right down and put money in the bank to pay these things, but do think it sets them up for problems if they take more than 2 years to bounce back they may well start to struggle , leeds look like they will change hands sometime soon as the owner has bought sampadoria and wants out https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12142549/Leeds-owner-Andrea-Radrizzani-completes-takeover-relegated-Serie-outfit-Sampdoria.html

even without parachute payments the league would be at a disadvantage to the premier league teams, as I reckon was probs the case before the payments were invented, although I've not looked anything up FFP and finances seem to be better monitored since they changed the rules not to long ago, just shame its a slow process at time for FFP

I think what makes the difference with teams that get relegated is why they got relegated, was it being outclassed on the pitch? or was there severe issues off the pitch as well. when the issues off the pitch are not resolved that usually guarantees they won't be the usual one team that bounces back first time. out of the 3 southampton are the ones that look like they have their shit together off the pitch more than the others. leeds however have made some off the field changes which may help them, but I think they might be a year off bouncing back Leicester for me is flip a coin if they get their shit together for me and become instant challengers, that money issue probs won't be as bad it reads once sales come in and people leave etc, but from a few posts I've seen from people who say they work inside the club that the son is just not into it and been detached since his dad died, which is more than understandable, but can see that's why their plan has changed and he been influenced by rogers and others to move from what kept them strong making at least one strong big sale a season to keeping people past their ideal sell by date (who are now going out of contract with money lost) and picking up far too many short term signings with little sale value baked into them. interesting to see what they do and who stays and goes and who comes in, sure they were on a uefa watch list for FFP, not sure on their numbers but guess you guys may have something on them. but all will probs be irrelevant until we know what business they are going to do, they should have around £100m come in at least. and that wage bill will need trimming down too

this is a good fan made article on leceisters issues https://www.thefosseway.net/viewpoint/leicester-city-2023-relegation-financial-fair-play-finances-parachute-payments-money

keiren says the owners paid back 20m, 3rd party loans down 20m, fan income was up, wages were up a bit, made 28m on transfers, currently owed 64m on transfer instalments, and the big loan they paid off in feb was with another loan at a much better interest rate and payment terms (I think it was a 39m loan they got)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65479942 who would buy them for 16m? crazy money, that owner sounds like he has backed both sides of the coin if he sells or winds it up

even with that its not a closed shop tho, plenty of teams have shown over that you can break through and earn your place there with great management from the owners and coaching staff. few examples out there that have done it the hard way and its paid off well for them. might be designed that way, but really even if there was no parachute payments I think teams would still bounce back just as much because they will have more money anyways and better players if they retain them more fun at west brown, minority shareholders have 38 questions for the owner to answer https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/xu-ke-asked-answer-38-26833082 not a nice tone of some of these they have asked very publicly

I dont think its the parachute payments, its clubs managing themselves better that usually bounces them back up at first chance, after all teams that come down do not always have their shit together in the first place. Without parachute payments I think premier league clubs are still going to be at an advantage and the trend I bet would remain at these numbers maybe at 90% or so without PPs, just because they will still have more money and bigger FFP allowance without the same level of payments, it still wouldn't level the playing field, but football will never be on a level playing field financially I think some teams the expectation is smash the league, reality is the rebuild even with the money is much harder than you expect, almost 2 down from 3 up each year on average shows how much that no year 3 parachute payment rule is saving them too,

I don't think it makes a closed shop, only feel its common that only 1 of the 3 teams that go down usually bounce back at first time of asking. but do think they should be phased out and force clubs to make provisions for if the worst happens, by either making rules or letting them deal with it the hard way, if a club can't plan for however unlikely scenario of relegation then they deserve to get stuck in the championship or worse for not having a contingency in their club.

aww poor barca :9 https://www.sport.es/en/news/barca/bad-news-for-barca-no-deal-reached-with-la-liga-8670847

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/03/oligarch-funded-everton-football-club-while-barred-from-uk-alisher-usmanov?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other more fun for the toffees :laugh:

administration is probs a stretch, saying that i've not looked into any numbers but you know what fans are like, they always over egg every situation good or bad, and when its back the vocal parts often go full on doom and gloom. might be forced into a flash sale tho that makes the team very uncompetitive and then put the club up for sale, think the owner might want to avoid administration since it will no doubt mean he has to pay his loan back :laugh:, could be a load of re-structuring their finances as well

he means everton at end of may :laugh:

southend have supisedly missed staff payments this month. and heard rumours reading only made payments at 65% for olaying staff byt 35% to be paid after the holiday

he set leiceister up well too, was pretty much his team that won the league puts on great holidays as well i've heard :laugh:

could relegation not help them, do the owners want to put shit loads of money in the club? don't league one just let you make donations so you can fix your ffp if they really wanted to that way maybe. I supose it will just depend on what their latest business plans are they have to meet. as if they have failed maybe the goal posts move slightly with what the EFL expects, epically with relegation

Dozy Mmobuosi ready to cancel Sheffield United takeover plans https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bdb0543a-e443-11ed-92e1-c61d17e3691f?shareToken=78fbdc6a15efd9b8d2ce0f06de4400b2 looks like a bun fight is on the cards for the money he has put in, or I'm guessing who ever steps in to buy them now will pay him off. Mike Ashley come on down the price is right!

good article that mr popo

can you have a mooch at one my local clubs, just wondering on the current figures you can find for them let me know how much the owner has taken out of the club, just curious how much the club owes him to see if he gonna be able to sell them or not. https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/23482623.hartlepool-united-sale-raj-singh-releases-lengthy-statement/