annanimo

"Englishness" and "Britishness" are relative terms that have evolved according to social and cultural changes throughout the centuries. Surely anyone can see that this evolutionary process in continuing and that our ideas of nationhood continue to change - it's pretty obvious that what it meant to be "English" in 1000 is completely different to what it meant to be "English" in 2000. Dagest makes some interesting points, chiefly how we define a "race". Are the English a race or a collection of diverse people from various ethnic origins who live in the land we call England? Also, is there an Englisg culture or are there a variety of cultures and interpretations/expressions of English culture? To miquote the quintesentially English hymn "Jeruslem", if Jesus did walk upon England's mountains green he would not have met a single person who considered themselves to be English.

Interesting discussion. As you see my my avatar, I'm something of a fan of Orwell's. His observations on the nature of patriotism and national identity are astute. So I'm what some of you on here might coinsider a "leftie". Please don't use that as a term of abuse or a convenient word with which to bunch together the politically correct. There is nothing politically correct about me, nor was there about Orwell, or many of the people who served on the "left" of British politics. For the Union Jack - it's not an issue. Is it racist? No. Do I want it banned? No. What's the big fuss about? I don't know. Yes, the BNP have tried to identify themselves with a peculiar interpretation of "Britishness" but that should not demean our nation and our national flag. I've had an interesting discussion on here before about the nature of British identity, how it is a relatively new understanding and the product of Georgian and early Victorian perceptions of British supremacy. I'm not going to go over old ground (yet again) but there is a great book called "BRITONS" by Linda Colley which goes some way towards exploring how and why our understandings of nationhood have evolved over time. Excellent reading material (and I don't normally recommend books). As for military defeats. England/Britain not endured any? Please don't make me laugh! Maybe the American Wars of Independence didn't involve the British after all? And the loss of Singapore in 1942 was a figment of my imagination? And...er..I won't bother talking about the humiliating defeats at French hands in the early 1400s, or the victories the Jacobites won over the English in '45?