Harry

I don’t think it’s fair to bring Manning into the conversation in this particular way. LM clearly knows what Twine can do and he wants him. It’s not up to LM to conduct the financial side of the deal. LM says to BT - I want Twine. BT and assorted members of the board have to go and do the deal. The fact it’s a loan without an option is 100% the responsibility of BT. LM is not part of that conversation. LM doesn’t need a “try before you buy”. He knows the kid inside out.

All I can add to this is that, on the 24th December I was made aware we’d bid £2.8m and offered a 3.5 year contract. I’m sure we want to sign him on a perm. I can’t believe for a second it would be a loan with no option and if it is I’ll be quite stunned.

And here is his highlights in the season prior to MK, when he was at Newport & Swindon (when he was out of contract )

There another video I’ve found of his goals and assists in his season under Manning at MK Some of the assists are gorgeous. Note that he does mostly contribute from central areas. So he definitely shouldn’t be shunted out left like he’s been at Hull. Note also the amount of forward runners he is able to find. If we can get Conway, Knight, Sykes making those type of forward runs, Twine will find them. Of that I have no doubt

Here it is.

Sorry, yes I did miss this amongst all the bollox being chatted in the last few pages. @Port Said Red Yes he’s predominantly right footed. But what a right foot it is. But he is capable with his left too. I’m sure there was someone posted a goal compilation in the thread earlier. I’ve not seen it but I’d imagine it’ll show you a rocket of a right foot.

Believe it mate. Honestly. Yep. And re the Twine salary - I’m sure you got that info from someone who would absolutely know. So people need to 100% trust that statement.

Ha ha. You know I have incredible bias here, so I can’t confirm without first stating the caveat “anything above £300k is more than we ‘could’ have got him for 2.5 years ago”. But that said. Yes, I’m much more comfortable with a £2.5m figure. I’d still prefer it to be done as a permanent immediately rather than a loan with a view. I don’t understand the need to ‘try before you buy’. The manager knows what he can do, and he’s one of the most creative players in the champ THIS season, so we know exactly what we are getting. Overall - yes, I’m delighted we are signing him. He’s a player I’ve loved watching over the last 3-4 years. He’s exactly what we miss (creativity in the 10 role, set piece ability) and he’s exactly what LM wants. But my view will always be tempered with the fact that any money over £300k is money we didn’t need to spend. I see Fevs’ heat map from earlier. That season at MK, he was mostly played as the ‘10’, but his natural tendency was to move out to the left - hence why his heat map looks like he was played on the left. That generally wasn’t the case - he just exploited the left side more than the right. So for me he should slot in at ‘10’ but needs a free ish role to get the best of him. We’ve had Knight up there recently. Don’t expect anywhere near the sort of press and energy that Knight has provided. Twine isn’t the quickest. He won’t be sprinting and closing down defenders. But he’s clever. He positions himself well to receive the ball in space. He’s confident when on the ball and will rarely lose possession. He will thread delightful through balls (some of his assists at MK were simply sublime), and he’ll deliver a great free kick and accurate corners. If I see ANYONE take a set piece aside from Twine I’ll be baffled.

Yep. Remember, the negotiations went on for quite a while in the summer and this was amid interest (confirmed interest) from Prem clubs. So if we wanted to keep him we had to pay him. Agree GC. Yes, Williams will be above average too. And Wells. That lot are our biggest contracts - James, Weimann, Wells, Williams, Naismith, Vyner. With 3 of those off the books in a couple of months. Twines wages won’t be anywhere near breaking the bank

Twine would not be on more than Weimann. Biggest earner James will be off in a couple of months. Big earner Weimann will be off the wage bill this week. Next biggest earners are Vyner & Naismith (£18k and £15k). Twine would likely be coming in around that level. So there won’t be wage disparity - any more than there already is with James.

Let’s suppose …… What would thoughts be if we’d allowed Nige to sign Twine in the summer, for £5m, the day after Scott left? £25m in the door. £5m out the door next day. As I’ve said, I love Twine. But whether it was last summer, this Jan or next summer, I wouldn’t want to spend £5m. But given the scenario above, I actually think many people will take a different view to me and would think it was good business. Of course, my scenario is a hypothetical one and we all know that Nige was denied money and Liam is seemingly allowed money. And I wonder if this is skewing some people’s thoughts??…….

I got mine from here :

I’ve seen a few comments about him not being capable (or at least unproven) at this level. He was very unlucky at Burnley. Signed for big money and then injured on his debut. By the time he got back to fitness agin he’d missed 6 months of football and Burnley were on a tremendous run and so it was hard for him to get back in as a starter. He only started 5 games and scored 3 assisted 1. That’s not actually too bad really is it. Many have said “he’s not done anything at Hull”. Ok, so he’s played 25 I think. Scored 4, assisted 3. Ok, could be better. But he’s also been shunted to left and right at times when his best role is central. However, and I’m sure @Davefevs could dig out that stats, but I believe he’s contributed hugely when it comes to ‘key passes’. So whilst his assist stat is only 3, I believe he’s been key to setting up big chances, or even assisting the assist. His key passes stats, from what I can see, are in the 95th percentile in the champ this season. That basically means you are getting a highly creative player. Which is exactly what we need. All that said, I still stand by the fact I wouldn’t pay £5m!! But for people to say he’s not proven at champ level, well, that’s just wrong - he’s among the most creative players in the league this season.

But what’s the point of an “option”. Manning knows him. Why would we need to have him on a 4 month trial?? It’s a waste of time and money. If we want him just buy him. If it’s too expensive, move on

See, I also don’t understand the ‘loan with a view to buy’. Manning has already managed this player for a year. The most successful year both of them have had in football. We don’t need to ‘try before you buy’. Manning knows what he can bring and knows he can work with him. If Manning wants him then just buy him. What’s the point of a ‘try before you buy’. Again, I just wouldn’t spend resource on a loan at all. I also wouldn’t spend £5m on him. But if LM sees him as key then just buy him. Why bother with a loan

Yep. I think if this happens (as a loan only) then it’s a desperate deal. JL & BT have heaped unnecessary pressure on LM with the ‘top end’ nonsense. We are nowhere near that. And an expensive loan signing will not get us there. We need 5 or 6 of the Twine ability/capability. Not just 1. A loan only is an expensive and unnecessary move

Leave alone Hull, these are the exact reasons for which I don’t want Bristol City to make any loans this window as well. I personally don’t think we have any chance whatsoever of winning the playoffs this year (don’t even think we’ll make them at all). Therefore, any money spent on loans is, in my opinion, a waste. As I’ve said before, I like Twine. I really like him. But I wouldn’t pay £5m for him and wouldn’t want him on loan this season, as he alone will not turn us into a promotion team. We need to start building a team that can challenge next season. Loans now don’t help that.

As someone who has watched FGR about a dozen times this season, I can categorically state that Deeney is correct in every single thing he has said in that interview. Should he be saying it publically, mmmmm; maybe not. But I’ll tell you one thing - he’s bloody right and it’s refreshing to hear.

Ha ha. I was planning on having a quiet night Dave. This question, as I know you very well know, is gonna get my hackles right up As said, there are 3 ways that this goes : 1) Coach the current players to play LM’s way. Answer - I can’t see it. I’ve always said I just can’t see the players being able to regularly sustain the style LM wants. Patches, yes. But not consistently or quick/slick enough. 2) LM adapts to this squad. This is a comment I see a lot. Yes. Maybe he should. But my argument would be; why should he?? We’ve recruited him as manager based on what we’ve seen him produce in previous roles. He has a very clear CV. Why would you hire a cocktail-shaker to work in the cloakroom? Why would you hire a sparky to sort out your plumbing (and other such crap analogies). 3) Buy players to suit the managers style. This is all we can be left with. I just don’t see options 1 or 2 as credible. So, to answer your questions. Can we afford to buy the style of players required? The answer to that is Yes. It can definitely be done. But of course that leads into question 2) can we recruit expertly. My answer to that is a resounding and very sorry No. As you know, I have very little faith in our recruitment structure and team. I’m sure Brian is very keen to complete his TGH deal that he’s oh so very proud of. And yes, TGH is a good player, I’m not doubting that. But does he suit LM’s style. I personally don’t think he does, no. We will of course sign him. But I’m not actually convinced LM would target him if he wasn’t already here. And as you’ve noted elsewhere re Knight. The recruitment team and Brian are oh so proud of him too. And I again say that yes he’s a very good player. But hand on heart, if he wasn’t already here, would Manning have him on a list of targets? I’d say the answer to that is also no. Anyway. A quiet night for me. So my short answer to your questions are : 1) Yes. It’s very do-able. 2) No. I have no trust in our recruitment.

Yep. I’m with you on most of that. Here’s my take on today. First half we were the better team. Not just narrowly, but quite clearly. Gardner-Hickman really needs to take that huuuge chance. Yes, 1 on 1’s get missed and keepers make saves, but this division is tight, this game was always gonna be tight and stodgy, so it is vital that you capitalise on your BIG chances. That was a huge chance. It was a great tackle from Williams, TGH looked uncertain bearing down on goal, he didn’t know whether to pass or shoot. He ballsed that one up big time. Knight had chances and with a couple of them he really snatched at them. He looked very anxious and rushed today. Maybe the captaincy?? At half time I was quite content. 2nd half was terrible. Yes, PNE made the changes and it was clear that we had to attempt to counter that. And we didn’t. We lost our heads. We lost our ability to pass the ball. We were rushed and unsteady. All of the bad habits that I’ve always thought many of this squad had, were in clear evidence again - ie the basics. However, I do think we just about overcame that early 2nd half spell and were starting to feel our way back and then, wallop!!! A HUGE error from Max. That isn’t ’scapegoating’ or anything, it’s a simple fact. I mean, what the hell did he think he was trying to achieve. That said, it was a poor header from Tanner in the first place - I mean what a great flick on for the assist. Again, not scapegoating, and I’ve been consistent in this for 2 years that I don’t think Tanner is anywhere near good enough. He showed me again. Lots of static defending today. That 2nd goal was awful. No pressure on the ball, no intent, no anticipation, just stationary players. Player-wise. Tanner poor. Max at fault for the goal that changed the game. Vyner static. TGH should have scored and was otherwise ponderous and slow. Mehmeti ineffective. Bell non-existent. Conway isolated. Only Joe Williams leaves that game with any credit for me. I think he’s been our best player in the last 4-6 weeks. Is he playing for a contract? Don’t know. Maybe. But he’s certainly been our best player of late. Without a doubt. Manager-wise. I didn’t like what I saw today. We were passive. We were not composed. We needed to capitalise on our big chance and we shouldn’t make ridiculous keeper errors which led to the first goal. But all that said, Manning has to carry the can today. That 2nd half was bad. Reaction did need to happen to their half time adjustments. When change finally did happen I thought he got it terribly wrong. He went to 3 at the back. I 100% disagree that this is the right move. In fact I thought the 2nd goal came as a result of that shape change. Dickie found himself having to close down a wide player and was slow to do it, leaving Vyner isolated at the near post. That goal for me is a direct result of the shape change. If he wanted to get McCrorie on, it should have been a straight swap for Tanner, who was terrible. Moving your weakest link to centre back will never be the right move in my eyes. As for the 2nd set of subs - well, I’ll be consistent here - I was always harsh on Nige when he decided to play the useless and well past it King. So I will say the same to Manning. Ridiculous sub. It doesn’t matter to me that it was only for 3 minutes. I just don’t see what the bloke will contribute to a game. So Liam, same message as I always said to Nige - forget bloody King!! I just mentioned McCrorie. Look, I know the bloke has been out for a long time, so I’m not gonna go all in, and I’ll give him plenty of time to judge, but that was a horrendously poor ‘cameo’ today. Gave the ball away literally every time he had it. And in fact it was his giveaway that led to the 2nd goal. But as said, he’s been out a long time. I’d suggest that maybe Manning got it wrong here too. I don’t think McCrorie was ready. Needs another couple of reserve games. I don’t think Manning should have brought him on in a deficit situation, away from home, for his long awaited debut, as part of a shape change, when he clearly wasn’t yet up to scratch. I said prior to Manning arriving here that I didn’t think we had the squad to suit him. I was actually quite encouraged by ‘some’ of the things I’ve seen in ‘some’ of the games so far. But there are other games, and specifically today, where it’s again clear to me that this squad and Manning are not a match. There are 3 ways to change that scenario. 1) Improve the players you’ve got. 2) Manager changes his philosophies. 3) Buy players to suit. I’m convinced that a lot of our players can’t cope with option 1. I’m pretty sure that option 2 won’t happen - it’s Lm’s style, why should he change it! So it’s left to option 3. Ultimately if we want a squad that is capable of fully implementing LM’s philosophies then we need a lot of new players. And that is where, as we’ve all been very sure of, that BT and JL carry the can for their stupid/naive comments (or poor excuses as we can confidently call it). This is not and never has been a “top end” squad. It is not and never has been the “best squad we’ve had for years”. The squad has been built as an out of possession counter attacking team. Manning, as has always been said, is not an out of possession counterattacking manager. That’s not his fault. That’s just what he is. If Jon and Brian wanted him then they will need to furnish him with players that suit him. So the buck, for me, will always rest with JL & BT. I think LM has tried to implement his philosophies and soon realised that many of our players are not up to it.

was never on one of my lists.

Actually Cidercity, I will expand a bit more. Yes, there have been some players who I’ve been keen on who haven’t maybe hit the heights. I was very keen on Callum Wright. From Leicester, now at Plymouth. He’d have been borderline in my 95%+ list. I was very keen on Josh Sheehan when he was a free from Newport. He’s at Bolton currently. He’d have been in my 95%+ range too. After 2 initial viewings, I had Anthony Hartigan in my 95% range. But I then watched him a further 12 or so times and he dropped into my 85% range. He went to Mansfield and then had injuries and is on loan at Barnet at the mo. For what it’s worth, Mehmeti was in my 85-95% range. So yes, there are always ‘lists’. But I do have an absolutely must sign list and Twine was on it.

Again. Just to be clear. This wasn’t just mutterings on the internet. Anyway. As I said. I’m not at all bothered that we didn’t sign him. But I do find it laughable that we’d consider paying such a high price 2.5 years later. Which is the main reason why, even though I like him a lot, I hope we don’t actually sign him now.

As I said. There’s lots of other players who I’ve really liked. But those listed above are the very few who I’ve been absolutely adamant and convinced about. That list is my 95% to 100% ers. There a good list of 85% to 95% ers. And the a further list of 75% to 85% ers. I’m only absolutely adamant about the 95% + list. But yes; of course there are lots of other players who I like.

To answer this. There are lots of players that I quite like and that I’d recommend for ‘further viewing’. But there are very few that I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign. A list of those who I’ve been absolutely adamant that we must sign : Pack, Freeman, Ayling, Grimes, Ollie Watkins, Bowen, Twine, Rudoni.